So: You take a full Bible approach to marriage, are married, and find a young woman still under her father's authority and you would like to have her as a part of your family. How do you convince the would-be father-in-law? Thought I'd throw this one out there for some fun, but serious discussion.
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Convincing the would-be father-in-law
- Thread starter Shadowjak's Dancer
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Or find someone already on biblicalfamilies.org who has daughters of age... ( if that's you, send me a private message )
Seriously, though, I'm trying to get to a level of discussing plural marriage where most reasonable fathers would view this as a good, or even great, option for their daughters.
Seriously, though, I'm trying to get to a level of discussing plural marriage where most reasonable fathers would view this as a good, or even great, option for their daughters.
Great topic for discussion!
I laughed at some of the comments here, but seriously, unless you are a millionaire, or get him REALLY drunk, most christian fathers are not likely to consider it.
The other factor is when to approach the prospective father in law. We got to know a young lady a couple of years ago, who waited until she had come out and visited our family, to let her parents know the rest of the story about her relationship with us (she was contemplating being part of our family)
She didn't want to alienate them for no cause, should things not work out with our family, but it was hard on everyone the way it went.
It is admirable when a gal wants to respect her father's wishes in who she marries, but it is sad how few fathers, when faced with poly, are willing to be objective, and let scripture and the character of the man be the deciding factors.
And the single women warming pews continue to increase, while the pastors preach on how spiritual it is to remain single.....and the parents of the single gal who would have been poly, sit there married, possibly holding the hand of their partner during church services, hoping their daughter meets some worthy young SINGLE man, so they can have grandchildren.
And the family who would be poly? We're still here, and waiting for the world to catch up to the reality that we already see.
It would be easier to not get involved without a father's consent, IF he is going to have the final say in if you marry or not. But that is not typically how relationships go. You tend to get emotionally involved before you reach the "meet the parents" stage.
You might stand a chance with a father who will discuss it, or even get MAD at you for thinking such a thing, but if you get the kind that ignore you, it may be a lost cause.
I laughed at some of the comments here, but seriously, unless you are a millionaire, or get him REALLY drunk, most christian fathers are not likely to consider it.
The other factor is when to approach the prospective father in law. We got to know a young lady a couple of years ago, who waited until she had come out and visited our family, to let her parents know the rest of the story about her relationship with us (she was contemplating being part of our family)
She didn't want to alienate them for no cause, should things not work out with our family, but it was hard on everyone the way it went.
It is admirable when a gal wants to respect her father's wishes in who she marries, but it is sad how few fathers, when faced with poly, are willing to be objective, and let scripture and the character of the man be the deciding factors.
And the single women warming pews continue to increase, while the pastors preach on how spiritual it is to remain single.....and the parents of the single gal who would have been poly, sit there married, possibly holding the hand of their partner during church services, hoping their daughter meets some worthy young SINGLE man, so they can have grandchildren.
And the family who would be poly? We're still here, and waiting for the world to catch up to the reality that we already see.
It would be easier to not get involved without a father's consent, IF he is going to have the final say in if you marry or not. But that is not typically how relationships go. You tend to get emotionally involved before you reach the "meet the parents" stage.
You might stand a chance with a father who will discuss it, or even get MAD at you for thinking such a thing, but if you get the kind that ignore you, it may be a lost cause.
I find it fortuitous, or Providential, that this topic should come up.
I've been thinking about this girl in my neighborhood. Let's call her Sally. She's actually right across the street. There's Sally, her siblings (she's 3rd of 6), mom and grandparents. Sally's father is not in the picture. We've lived across from each other since we moved in about 5-6 years ago. I find her very attractive and pleasant to talk to. I keep thinking of Jacob and Rachael. Even Laban said that it would be better to give her to Jacob than another man. More than anything i feel this pull to bring her in and protect her.
Sally's mother is single with 5 other children (6 total) who lives with her parents. Sally's older sister used to live with them with her boyfriend. Sally's sister, boyfriend and new born have their own apartment now, but they still stay over quite often. They may have even moved back in but it's hard to tell when sleeping during the day and working at night. Mom used to have a problem with drinking, had to have the cops come out a couple times over the years, but she has gotten better recently. The older brother is a little unstable and caused a huge disturbance on our street last year with Sally at the brunt of his drunken tirade. It isn't an environment conducive to stable family living. Although we are across the street, she would have her own place to be sheltered from the craziness.
I've been thinking about how to go about this. The only way that i can see it being possible, especially considering how close (geographically) we are, is simply to go over there and sit down with the three (mom and grandparents) and explain how things are and what i would like to do.
First, i plan on explaining that i wish to talk to them about something very important and ask that they let me finish before they throw me out. I expect that to get a little nervous chuckle. Next, I would explain that i am a christian and how I'm different. I used to consider myself non-denom, but considering my newer understanding i think i prefer the term Christian Orthodox Patriarch. I'll explain what each means and use that last one as a lead-in to PM. If i get past this, i'll know they're at least not knee-jerk reacting.
Then, I'll explain how my views on dating and marriage are different. How i reject dating in general and marriage is so much more than just a piece of paper. If they hadn't guessed by now, I mention Sally specifically. They very likely have no idea I'm interested. If I survive this point, they're either in shock or waiting to see what falls out of my mouth next.
I point out that as Sally dates, do they think that any of the ones she has been with, or will be with, are capable of providing for her or are plain marriage-worthy. Would they rather that she take a gamble on a young man with no career and no relationship experience or with a more established man who is dedicated to providing, loving and protecting her? Would they rather her go out with young men who have no idea how to restrain themselves or be with a man who is dedicated to preserving her innocence? They will have the comfort and safe knowledge that every time she returns home, she will be in the same condition she left in.
I will emphasize that this is not dating per se (restating previous beliefs on dating) but a courting process. This isn't about having fun, but seeking if we are compatible. Using the time to allow her to read, study and train on my beliefs so she can also decide if she wants to be apart of it or not.
Anyway, that's the plan. And we all know how well plans go when they interact with reality.
Then there's Betty who is my wife's brother's wife's sister......
I've been thinking about this girl in my neighborhood. Let's call her Sally. She's actually right across the street. There's Sally, her siblings (she's 3rd of 6), mom and grandparents. Sally's father is not in the picture. We've lived across from each other since we moved in about 5-6 years ago. I find her very attractive and pleasant to talk to. I keep thinking of Jacob and Rachael. Even Laban said that it would be better to give her to Jacob than another man. More than anything i feel this pull to bring her in and protect her.
Sally's mother is single with 5 other children (6 total) who lives with her parents. Sally's older sister used to live with them with her boyfriend. Sally's sister, boyfriend and new born have their own apartment now, but they still stay over quite often. They may have even moved back in but it's hard to tell when sleeping during the day and working at night. Mom used to have a problem with drinking, had to have the cops come out a couple times over the years, but she has gotten better recently. The older brother is a little unstable and caused a huge disturbance on our street last year with Sally at the brunt of his drunken tirade. It isn't an environment conducive to stable family living. Although we are across the street, she would have her own place to be sheltered from the craziness.
I've been thinking about how to go about this. The only way that i can see it being possible, especially considering how close (geographically) we are, is simply to go over there and sit down with the three (mom and grandparents) and explain how things are and what i would like to do.
First, i plan on explaining that i wish to talk to them about something very important and ask that they let me finish before they throw me out. I expect that to get a little nervous chuckle. Next, I would explain that i am a christian and how I'm different. I used to consider myself non-denom, but considering my newer understanding i think i prefer the term Christian Orthodox Patriarch. I'll explain what each means and use that last one as a lead-in to PM. If i get past this, i'll know they're at least not knee-jerk reacting.
Then, I'll explain how my views on dating and marriage are different. How i reject dating in general and marriage is so much more than just a piece of paper. If they hadn't guessed by now, I mention Sally specifically. They very likely have no idea I'm interested. If I survive this point, they're either in shock or waiting to see what falls out of my mouth next.
I point out that as Sally dates, do they think that any of the ones she has been with, or will be with, are capable of providing for her or are plain marriage-worthy. Would they rather that she take a gamble on a young man with no career and no relationship experience or with a more established man who is dedicated to providing, loving and protecting her? Would they rather her go out with young men who have no idea how to restrain themselves or be with a man who is dedicated to preserving her innocence? They will have the comfort and safe knowledge that every time she returns home, she will be in the same condition she left in.
I will emphasize that this is not dating per se (restating previous beliefs on dating) but a courting process. This isn't about having fun, but seeking if we are compatible. Using the time to allow her to read, study and train on my beliefs so she can also decide if she wants to be apart of it or not.
Anyway, that's the plan. And we all know how well plans go when they interact with reality.
Then there's Betty who is my wife's brother's wife's sister......
Hi NetWatchR.
You have put together a good theoretical constructed conversation there, however...
Its too much for one sitting. Their brains will short-circuit and re-boot.
You need to go much slower, and break it up over a longer period of time, interspersed with acts of service.
Cheers,
ylop
You have put together a good theoretical constructed conversation there, however...
Its too much for one sitting. Their brains will short-circuit and re-boot.
You need to go much slower, and break it up over a longer period of time, interspersed with acts of service.
Cheers,
ylop
Makes sense, despite our human desire to get it all arranged at one sitting.ylop said:
Make haste slowly. -- Chinese proverb
It is said that folks "won't care how much you know until they know how much you care." Having seen that caring in action for a while may well tip the balance in your favor once it comes time for the saying. :roll:
How could you show caring for Sally in the meantime? Make her feel at home and cared for and safe in your home? The idea being that you do not overstep the bounds of caring friendship, but if/when the day comes to discuss making her part of your family, it can't but help if she already feels that she IS !!!
Perhaps also try to get the rest of her family comfortable send welcome in your home. Probably easier to convince them if they sense your home as a godly, safe, caring place... rather than the mysterious house of horrors where the cultist polygamists live; that den of iniquity just across the street just waiting to swallow up any innocent young woman who got lured in with an invitation for a cup of tea, only to be brainwashed and led into a lifestyle of sin...
This thread of discussion is fun!
This thread of discussion is fun!
You guys have some great points. And, Jacob, you have an interesting way of putting that into perspective. :lol:
Inviting them over would be a great way to start. We've been pretty stand-off'ish with their family because of the problems they've had. And admittedly, it's because i've allowed my wife to dictate who can come over and who can't. She feels uncomfortable with them around and as much as i need to take that into consideration, i've let that prevent me from bridging the gap that exists.
Now for Betty... Betty is a slightly different story as she is on her own. She's also closer to my age than Sally. We could initiate direct communication right away. Seeing if we are compatible or if there is any interest to start with. If we agree this is a relationship we would like to pursue, then, i would talk to her father about courting. i really have a problem with courting a woman who's never been married without talking to the father first. This is one of those things that i really feel strongly about. More so, i think, because i have a daughter myself than simply as a matter of respect.
PM may not be that much of an issue since they are LDS (not FLDS, but, you know). I can always start the conversation off like, "Hey, remember how God told the leader and founder of your faith that he needed a couple extra wives? Well, guess what?" Ironically, as much as being LDS may make them more open to PM, the conversion from LDS to Christian would be the rub. but i also don't know how devout she is to the LDS Church. It could just be what she's always known like those who grow up in Christian homes or Buddhist homes, etc.
Inviting them over would be a great way to start. We've been pretty stand-off'ish with their family because of the problems they've had. And admittedly, it's because i've allowed my wife to dictate who can come over and who can't. She feels uncomfortable with them around and as much as i need to take that into consideration, i've let that prevent me from bridging the gap that exists.
Now for Betty... Betty is a slightly different story as she is on her own. She's also closer to my age than Sally. We could initiate direct communication right away. Seeing if we are compatible or if there is any interest to start with. If we agree this is a relationship we would like to pursue, then, i would talk to her father about courting. i really have a problem with courting a woman who's never been married without talking to the father first. This is one of those things that i really feel strongly about. More so, i think, because i have a daughter myself than simply as a matter of respect.
PM may not be that much of an issue since they are LDS (not FLDS, but, you know). I can always start the conversation off like, "Hey, remember how God told the leader and founder of your faith that he needed a couple extra wives? Well, guess what?" Ironically, as much as being LDS may make them more open to PM, the conversion from LDS to Christian would be the rub. but i also don't know how devout she is to the LDS Church. It could just be what she's always known like those who grow up in Christian homes or Buddhist homes, etc.
Being LDS might also make them more opposed to PM, depending on their background. They could be insulted by you assuming they'll be comfortable with PM because they're Mormon, because it might just sound like you're labeling them with a stereotype. Or worse, playing some weird joke on them.
I wouldn't mention LDS history at all, let them bring that up.
The first thing to do is to work out what she believes about God.
I wouldn't mention LDS history at all, let them bring that up.
The first thing to do is to work out what she believes about God.
Alternately, while walking up with a nod and a wink, "Thirty shekels of silver, I presume."
How about working on friendship first?
As for sharing views of polygyny... I don't hide ours at all, but when the grocer's cashier says "Have a nice day" at the finish of a transaction I don't say "You as well, and by the way I'm a Biblical polygynist."
When we prepare for a fight (or to "convince" someone) we tend to cause a fight.
I won't consider courting anyone until we are established friends over time. By that point, a lady and her family/friends know not only my family's view regarding polygyny, but really know us.
As for sharing views of polygyny... I don't hide ours at all, but when the grocer's cashier says "Have a nice day" at the finish of a transaction I don't say "You as well, and by the way I'm a Biblical polygynist."
When we prepare for a fight (or to "convince" someone) we tend to cause a fight.
I won't consider courting anyone until we are established friends over time. By that point, a lady and her family/friends know not only my family's view regarding polygyny, but really know us.
Indeed. The friendly neighborhood polygamist... Ach, well, I'm trying to retrain a whole bunch of people in how they look at the Bible right now. Perhaps the whole group can discover this truth together.. any thoughts on group study?
jacobhaivri said:
That could certainly be an "Ach" sort of thing, especially if it's all we are known for. But then, if our primary goal is to convince people of polygyny then it would make sense that it's all they think of when we come to mind. Let them know us by our love. John 13:34-35
Agreed.
