I'll give you one piece of advice, listen to your upbringing. Feelings should be discredited. They are very deceptive and almost always selfish.
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The insecurities of a potential second wife
- Thread starter cmj2231
- Start date
In general, I agree with you Zec. We often let our emotions get the best of us in the face of overwhelming facts. But,there are whole psychological studies based on "intuition" or "sixth sense". These feelings are based on prior experiences all rolled up into learned reactions.
For instance, if we see a man is walking down the street in the middle of summer, wearing a black overcoat in 100 F weather, with unusual bulges all around him...our "gut feelings" get sparked and our self protection mode goes into action.
Mojo, that's pretty sage advice for a non-practitioner....
No PDA in front of a SW sounds boring to me, but to each his own. I can't keep my hands off of 'em....
cmj, just to piggyback on what Mojo and mystic have already said, plan on the next few years giving all of you a major reorientation re what Christianity's all about. Focus on love and forgiveness and honesty and acceptance more than what you think is the right and wrong of it. Your husband got a little ahead of himself, now everybody's reacting to the event and then reacting to others' reactions.
All three of y'all should agree now that you're going to love each other through the mistakes, and take each glitch as an opportunity for some fresh, open communication about what you want to do differently in the future, rather than who messed up and whose fault it is and what the punishment is going to be. Not to scare you, but what just happened will be laughed at later as insignificant compared to some of the things you have yet to work out.
I mean that in the same sense that parents of six or eight or more children chuckle at younger parents who think they 'have their hands' full with, say, three kids. Or you can look back at your life as, say, a teenager, and just gotta laugh at some of the things that seemed so important to you back then.
I strongly recommend the book Language and the Pursuit of Happiness for anyone who wants to improve their communication skills.
Final thought: Having the first wife oversee the development of the intimacy between husband and second wife is problematic, or maybe I should say can be problematic, or is problematic in my experience, in case there's someone out there that that worked for. In any event, that's not my family's story, and in a handful of cases I'm familiar with that strategy creates structural problems.
I agree that no PDA in front of a SW does sound a bit boring and as I agree with some of the others in that seeing your husband take joy in another wife as well is something to be happy about to know that he has a sound relationship with all of his wives. I certainly agree that everyone is reacting to the event and to everyone else's reactions and I think we have all agreed that this is our first big test as a family of how to love, and move forward and help each other to heal and support each other.
Mojo, that's pretty sage advice for a non-practitioner....
No PDA in front of a SW sounds boring to me, but to each his own. I can't keep my hands off of 'em....
cmj, just to piggyback on what Mojo and mystic have already said, plan on the next few years giving all of you a major reorientation re what Christianity's all about. Focus on love and forgiveness and honesty and acceptance more than what you think is the right and wrong of it. Your husband got a little ahead of himself, now everybody's reacting to the event and then reacting to others' reactions.
All three of y'all should agree now that you're going to love each other through the mistakes, and take each glitch as an opportunity for some fresh, open communication about what you want to do differently in the future, rather than who messed up and whose fault it is and what the punishment is going to be. Not to scare you, but what just happened will be laughed at later as insignificant compared to some of the things you have yet to work out.
I mean that in the same sense that parents of six or eight or more children chuckle at younger parents who think they 'have their hands' full with, say, three kids. Or you can look back at your life as, say, a teenager, and just gotta laugh at some of the things that seemed so important to you back then.
I strongly recommend the book Language and the Pursuit of Happiness for anyone who wants to improve their communication skills.
Final thought: Having the first wife oversee the development of the intimacy between husband and second wife is problematic, or maybe I should say can be problematic, or is problematic in my experience, in case there's someone out there that that worked for. In any event, that's not my family's story, and in a handful of cases I'm familiar with that strategy creates structural problems.
I agree that no PDA in front of a SW does sound boring and it seems like it would limit the natural affections of that relationship. I also agree with some other posters who think that the other SW's should be happy to see that because it could be showing that the relationship with the H and that SW is flourishing and is still good. I also agree that in this situation everyone is reacting to what happened and then reacting to each other's reactions. The good thing was that we all agreed after it happened to use it as our first test as a family and how we move and heal beyond this and support each other in it will truly show how well we can bond and work together to face any future trials. I do also agree though that having the first wife (or any wife) oversee intimacy between the husband and another wife is problematic (I obviously can say that from experience!), and even though we have all talked and agreed that I would be the only other wife, if that were to change I could never imagine trying to dictate what my husband would intimately do with another SW. I think in my SW's attempt to control the situation based on her own needs and feelings she is ultimately pushing him away from me and he is creating such a divide between him and myself out of respect for her and her feelings that I feel like I can't get close to him at all and almost to the point where it seems like I am the last thing he things about in his day and it is creating animosity that doesn't need to be there and that only exists because some days it seems as though I am forgotten or that I don't matter as much, if at all.
Things between all of us were progressing nicely and we were developing solid relationships and now it seems that because of what happened, I am being treated more like a stranger again that they are all just trying to get to know and he isn't making an effort at all to do so anymore. He is so worried about her and her feelings that he has created a great divide between he and I that just does not bridge anymore. It seems like I get to a certain point on the bridge and then I have to stop or fall off because the rest of the bridge no longer exists and if I fell off the proverbial bridge I don't trust him or am close enough to him in the moment to believe that he would catch me. How can we rebuild that trust and that "bridge" if he isn't attempting to spend time with me because he is so focused on her and her feelings, and the 100's of other things he needs to get done in a day? In some ways I already feel like I have fallen off of that "bridge" and I am doing all I can to swim and not sink and he doesn't realize I'm so close to drowning because when he looks at the situation, he just sees that I'm swimming but doesn't realize that I'm getting tired, the water is starting to get cold, and I'm trying to swim (trying to make the relationship better) but I need his help and participation too!
CMJ, I am not a husband of more than one wife, so please take this in the spirit in which it is offered. I'm just a guy trying to make heads or tales out of this new (to me) dynamic.
I'm glad that you all are using this incident as a learning moment. If nothing else, it has provided the three of you with a great opportunity for growth provided that each one can identify the direction of growth.
Please note that I'm not intending this to be harsh, simply trying to be as straight up and truthful as I know how to be with my limited communication skills.
I don't see that the restricted intimacy that you both engaged in was in any way wrong or improper, however, it did bring to light something that I have heard referenced often in discussions about the courtship to marriage phase. While this is not meant to be disparaging to anyone who is living plural or on the way to living plural, I have noticed that one of the biggest stumbling blocks for the FW is the idea of public announcement (at least to the adults in the family). A moment of record that the DH and prospect are changing the parameters of the relationship. Whether is is a change of current parameters with the FW such as, "Honey, guess what I just learned! That thing about you being my one and only, its not true!" To, "Don't worry, just because its allowable for me to have another wife doesnt mean I'm going down that road. I'm happy just the way things are!" To "Check it out! I think I may have just met the new Mrs VV!"
In the same manner, the introduction, as well as various stages of progression in the relationship are best handled by the DH going on record with all parties by saying something like, I believe its time to take the next step.
I'm not saying that he has too or is required to or is accountable to the FW to do so. That is a different debate. What I am saying is that a wise husbandman will consider that too much shock can kill the most beautiful, hardy plant if precautions aren't taken. The plant that survives the shock will still take a long time to recover and become a beautiful productive, fruitful plant again.
One thing that Ive become convinced of is that the DH MUST be the head of the house as well as any relationships within the house. It is not enough for him to be the man of the house! For him to allow one member under his authority to dictate his actions or responses is tantamount to relational suicide! He cannot allow this to happen! He must be the one to establish acceptable boundaries for all parties. If he fails to step up into this role, the results are as predictable as they are disastrous, as you are experiencing.
This is not to say that the ladies involved cannot place individual boundaries around their own relationship with him such as premarital abstention or pre-intercourse health tests, but they may only do it as it affects their own relationship. Such as from FW, "DH, I would not presume to tell you that you may not marry SW by consumation alone, however, if you do I would expect you to let me know that you have prior to any further sexual intimacy between us. If you consummate prior to a clean bill of health, I think it best for us to abstain for a time until I know that it will not affect my health personally." For the FW to make demands on a subsequent relationship is to demonstrate that she is not "under authority" which becomes problematic even in a monogamous relationship and is compounded exponentially in a plural relationship.
So . . . . My advice is to personally set your own boundaries. Take a moment to set biblically based guidelines for your entering covenant with this family. While I see no issues with being a "roommate" who is exploring the possibility of a deeper relationship, once you have an understanding and consummation you should be prepared to be committed till death. Learn to identify the critical roles that must be played by all parties, and if those roles aren't filled, I would advise a delay of covenant. Don't risk the future for immediate. For some people the growth needed is a natural byproduct of their own maturity. For others, they will never mature into their roles. Don't get stuck in a dead end relationship that is doomed from the beginning. There is too much at stake for a believer.
He needs to step up into the role that this lifestyle demands of him.
She needs to be given reasonable but firm boundaries (by him, not you) and learn to be the master of her emotions.
I believe that if they are strong, moral people that a successful plural relationship is a possibility. However, any relationship, mono or plural, is at risk if all parties involved are not under the authority of Jesus Christ.
I'm glad that you all are using this incident as a learning moment. If nothing else, it has provided the three of you with a great opportunity for growth provided that each one can identify the direction of growth.
Please note that I'm not intending this to be harsh, simply trying to be as straight up and truthful as I know how to be with my limited communication skills.
I don't see that the restricted intimacy that you both engaged in was in any way wrong or improper, however, it did bring to light something that I have heard referenced often in discussions about the courtship to marriage phase. While this is not meant to be disparaging to anyone who is living plural or on the way to living plural, I have noticed that one of the biggest stumbling blocks for the FW is the idea of public announcement (at least to the adults in the family). A moment of record that the DH and prospect are changing the parameters of the relationship. Whether is is a change of current parameters with the FW such as, "Honey, guess what I just learned! That thing about you being my one and only, its not true!" To, "Don't worry, just because its allowable for me to have another wife doesnt mean I'm going down that road. I'm happy just the way things are!" To "Check it out! I think I may have just met the new Mrs VV!"
In the same manner, the introduction, as well as various stages of progression in the relationship are best handled by the DH going on record with all parties by saying something like, I believe its time to take the next step.
I'm not saying that he has too or is required to or is accountable to the FW to do so. That is a different debate. What I am saying is that a wise husbandman will consider that too much shock can kill the most beautiful, hardy plant if precautions aren't taken. The plant that survives the shock will still take a long time to recover and become a beautiful productive, fruitful plant again.
One thing that Ive become convinced of is that the DH MUST be the head of the house as well as any relationships within the house. It is not enough for him to be the man of the house! For him to allow one member under his authority to dictate his actions or responses is tantamount to relational suicide! He cannot allow this to happen! He must be the one to establish acceptable boundaries for all parties. If he fails to step up into this role, the results are as predictable as they are disastrous, as you are experiencing.
This is not to say that the ladies involved cannot place individual boundaries around their own relationship with him such as premarital abstention or pre-intercourse health tests, but they may only do it as it affects their own relationship. Such as from FW, "DH, I would not presume to tell you that you may not marry SW by consumation alone, however, if you do I would expect you to let me know that you have prior to any further sexual intimacy between us. If you consummate prior to a clean bill of health, I think it best for us to abstain for a time until I know that it will not affect my health personally." For the FW to make demands on a subsequent relationship is to demonstrate that she is not "under authority" which becomes problematic even in a monogamous relationship and is compounded exponentially in a plural relationship.
So . . . . My advice is to personally set your own boundaries. Take a moment to set biblically based guidelines for your entering covenant with this family. While I see no issues with being a "roommate" who is exploring the possibility of a deeper relationship, once you have an understanding and consummation you should be prepared to be committed till death. Learn to identify the critical roles that must be played by all parties, and if those roles aren't filled, I would advise a delay of covenant. Don't risk the future for immediate. For some people the growth needed is a natural byproduct of their own maturity. For others, they will never mature into their roles. Don't get stuck in a dead end relationship that is doomed from the beginning. There is too much at stake for a believer.
He needs to step up into the role that this lifestyle demands of him.
She needs to be given reasonable but firm boundaries (by him, not you) and learn to be the master of her emotions.
I believe that if they are strong, moral people that a successful plural relationship is a possibility. However, any relationship, mono or plural, is at risk if all parties involved are not under the authority of Jesus Christ.
Not only this CMJ, but as long as your DH and FW are not under the authority of scripture, you will have no unifying approach to not just your marriage, but to life in general. Right now, he is an authority unto himself, and without scripture, he has no other guide. How many books, besides scripture, describe what plural life should look like?
Without scripture and the authority of Christ, he is walking blind. Plus, you cannot encourage him to search the scriptures or pray. You cannot approach your SW to pray with you. You are finding it hard to obtain unity, because you have nothing uniting you other than a verbal intent. The biblical chain model of marriage is God, Christ, husband, family. The Christian husband must dwell under the authority and covering of Christ before he can establish authority over his own household.
Scripture warns us about being unequally yoked with unbelievers. On your yoke, you are outnumbered by two. Those aren't good odds. Just being real with you.
But I will reiterate that this is not cause for you to leave the situation. God can work miracles and his Holy Spirit can guide both of them to faith. But, as long as you are willingly walking into a household that does not share your faith journey and purpose, you will run into problems.
OK, here's my thoughts. I know you think you're all kind of over the kissing thing, but I think (and I may be wrong) that it's still relevant because it comes from a deeper issue.
The first wife wanted PM first. She thought she'd be in charge of finding a woman for her man and would be able to control how his relationship progressed with her.
Now she's found that she doesn't have that control, and it's terrifying. She's going to have to learn to trust her husband, and to give up everything to him. That's not always an easy thing to do.
I know you're taking things slow, but seriously slow right down. The first wife needs time to get her head around what PM is actually like in reality, and reality is far different from theory.
Also, have you discussed with him how you're feeling about only having 15 mins a day with him? You need to really communicate how you feel about this. Communication is one of the most important things that you all need to learn and be active in. Slowing down doesn't necessarily mean spending less time together, nor does it mean going backwards from where you are now. Perhaps it means no PDA for a wee while for example.
I'm also coming from a position like most people here where I am not in a plural marriage, just so you know.
I agree with Mojo, that you need to be really careful about the fact that they're not Christians. I understand that it's not your main concern, but if I was in your shoes it would be mine.
The first wife wanted PM first. She thought she'd be in charge of finding a woman for her man and would be able to control how his relationship progressed with her.
Now she's found that she doesn't have that control, and it's terrifying. She's going to have to learn to trust her husband, and to give up everything to him. That's not always an easy thing to do.
I know you're taking things slow, but seriously slow right down. The first wife needs time to get her head around what PM is actually like in reality, and reality is far different from theory.
Also, have you discussed with him how you're feeling about only having 15 mins a day with him? You need to really communicate how you feel about this. Communication is one of the most important things that you all need to learn and be active in. Slowing down doesn't necessarily mean spending less time together, nor does it mean going backwards from where you are now. Perhaps it means no PDA for a wee while for example.
I'm also coming from a position like most people here where I am not in a plural marriage, just so you know.
I agree with Mojo, that you need to be really careful about the fact that they're not Christians. I understand that it's not your main concern, but if I was in your shoes it would be mine.
I do not disagree with anything said above, but want to add another perspective to the mix.
CMJ, as I understand the situation, you are a prospective wife, but not a wife yet. You have hit a bump in the road that is causing both your prospective husband (PH) and prospective SW (PSW) to clam up in confusion and hurt.
You can't really direct or advise your PH in these matters without putting him between you and PSW as a referee, or maybe 'juggler' is a better metaphor. The best thing you could do for him would be to put him in touch with this group where he can get advice from other men. Then he can work on his vision for the kind of family he wants to build—and you ladies can line up behind that (or not, in your case)—instead of his simply reacting to whichever woman is having a bad day and trying to put out fires.
In the meantime (this is the "other perspective"), be advised that she is his wife and you are not yet, so he has a commitment to her that he does not have to you—yet. In these early days of transition, there are going to be times (this won't be the last) when problems cause PH and PSW to wonder if they're making a huge mistake going forward. There may be times when PH seems overly solicitous of PSW's feelings and concerns, and you'll feel like you're getting the short end of the stick. For your own peace of mind, reframe that as his being a good husband to her, the kind of husband you want him to be once he finally is in fact your husband, too.
And while you're doing that, communicate honestly and openly about your expectations and boundaries, as basically everyone here is advising. Particularly, learn to ask good questions. Probe his thought processes, figure out what's going on in his decision making processes, and verify that this is the guy whose leadership you want to follow for the rest of your life before you make that commitment.
CMJ, as I understand the situation, you are a prospective wife, but not a wife yet. You have hit a bump in the road that is causing both your prospective husband (PH) and prospective SW (PSW) to clam up in confusion and hurt.
You can't really direct or advise your PH in these matters without putting him between you and PSW as a referee, or maybe 'juggler' is a better metaphor. The best thing you could do for him would be to put him in touch with this group where he can get advice from other men. Then he can work on his vision for the kind of family he wants to build—and you ladies can line up behind that (or not, in your case)—instead of his simply reacting to whichever woman is having a bad day and trying to put out fires.
In the meantime (this is the "other perspective"), be advised that she is his wife and you are not yet, so he has a commitment to her that he does not have to you—yet. In these early days of transition, there are going to be times (this won't be the last) when problems cause PH and PSW to wonder if they're making a huge mistake going forward. There may be times when PH seems overly solicitous of PSW's feelings and concerns, and you'll feel like you're getting the short end of the stick. For your own peace of mind, reframe that as his being a good husband to her, the kind of husband you want him to be once he finally is in fact your husband, too.
And while you're doing that, communicate honestly and openly about your expectations and boundaries, as basically everyone here is advising. Particularly, learn to ask good questions. Probe his thought processes, figure out what's going on in his decision making processes, and verify that this is the guy whose leadership you want to follow for the rest of your life before you make that commitment.
Try to not take some of her reactions personal. From an only wife's (to possibly becoming a first wife in the future) perspective sadly at this point in my life I could see how I may react poorly in the same situation. As I read your posts, I couldn't help but feel my own emotions build up and how I would feel.. Are the emotions and reactions be justified? No. That's where I know my husband, a God fearing man and leader, would put me back in my place to remind me of my role. Depending on how long they have actually considered this new life change could be a big part of it too.. I know I personally forced myself to be more "ready" for this in the beginning when my husband brought it up to me than I actually was. When it was a reality (not just theory) that my husband was talking to someone, it hit me and my world was rocked- my emotions went all over the place and I know I didn't handle that situation well. Fast forward to a year later, I still have a lot to work on and my emotions pop up here and there but I've grown. For her, your relationship with him moved beyond the friend level to a reminder that you many end up in an intimate relationship with him. That's a tough one for many first wives to cope with. I honestly couldn't walk this path without Christ leading me thru the tough times and don't know how anyone could do it without Him.
These situations are a perfect thing for you to watch and see how your PH handles them. Is he leading the house, or is she leading the house? Does he really want this, or is it because she wanted it and now she might not so he follows suit? Look for all red flags before you commit and become one.
I know there have been several posts, but just know that everyone here truly wants to best for you. Anyone that has been a member here for any length of time has seen the many heartaches that comes from people not taking the appropriate time/research/heart changes needed before jumping in to a forever relationship. There is carnage all around.
These situations are a perfect thing for you to watch and see how your PH handles them. Is he leading the house, or is she leading the house? Does he really want this, or is it because she wanted it and now she might not so he follows suit? Look for all red flags before you commit and become one.
I know there have been several posts, but just know that everyone here truly wants to best for you. Anyone that has been a member here for any length of time has seen the many heartaches that comes from people not taking the appropriate time/research/heart changes needed before jumping in to a forever relationship. There is carnage all around.
wifeofhisyouth, your comments are very much appreciated and sobering, as a husband that loves his wife dearly, I just wanted to say thank you. PM is without doubt scriptural and moral, yet there are still personal costs that need to be taken into consideration when the matter goes from theory to practice. Again thank you for your expressions.
"New" is good. The 1st wife of 20+ years may have 20+ years, but you have "new" and any man will tell you how much they enjoy, and need, both (new, and established).
You can offer new.
She can offer established.
Living "in love" means you are stronger and better together.
Living "in love" empowers you to be excited about the opportunities, and benefits, your differences bring.
Living "in love" means there is no competition. None. Ever.
Living "in love" means you can proceed w/out fear.
You can offer new.
She can offer established.
Living "in love" means you are stronger and better together.
Living "in love" empowers you to be excited about the opportunities, and benefits, your differences bring.
Living "in love" means there is no competition. None. Ever.
Living "in love" means you can proceed w/out fear.
Well said thank you
