Canadian polygamists prosecuted

[FollowingHim]

Two Canadian polygamists have just been convicted of polygamy, one having 25 wives and the other 5. These are FLDS men, connected to Warren Jeffs, their views on polygamy don't agree with our own and the number of wives is excessive. However, there appears to be no suggestion of any actual criminal activity, such as underage marriages or abuse. This appears to be entirely between consenting adults. So the decision is very relevant to any Christian polygamists in Canada.

Canada's criminal code explicitly bans polygamy, and the law is worded extremely broadly and in the plain wording of it appears to ban absolutely any sexual relationship between more than two people, whatever the situation:

• 293 (1) Every one who
  
  • (a) practises or enters into or in any manner agrees or consents to practise or enter into
    
    • (i) any form of polygamy, or
      
      
    • (ii) any kind of conjugal union with more than one person at the same time,
      
    whether or not it is by law recognized as a binding form of marriage, or
    
    
  • (b) celebrates, assists or is a party to a rite, ceremony, contract or consent that purports to sanction a relationship mentioned in subparagraph (a)(i) or (ii),
    
  is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.
  
  
• Marginal note:Evidence in case of polygamy
  (2) Where an accused is charged with an offence under this section, no averment or proof of the method by which the alleged relationship was entered into, agreed to or consented to is necessary in the indictment or on the trial of the accused, nor is it necessary on the trial to prove that the persons who are alleged to have entered into the relationship had or intended to have sexual intercourse.

The Supreme Court was asked to rule on whether this law is constitutional, and declared in 2011 that it was. However they stated that it only applied when there was a formal wedding ceremony, and did not apply to polyamory. This seems to be something they made up to fit with the prevailing culture, because the law itself clearly and explicitly bans polyamory (293.1.a.ii). So the supreme court has decided that religious polgamy is illegal, but secular polyamory is legal. This is a very concerning anti-religious approach, and has resulted in this prosecution today.

Any polygamists in Canada need to do their best to be seen as secular polyamorists in the eyes of the law and avoid the terms "wife", "husband" and "marriage".

This prosecution does appear to have been based on a formal record of marriages kept by Warren Jeffs in Texas, seized as part of his conviction. Keeping a register of marriages is a very bad idea, fortunately it's entirely unnecessary and not required by scripture. Avoiding such paper records might help to avoid such prosecutions.

 

[Aussies]

Thank you Samuel good info to have.

 

[frederick]

Thank you very much and I appreciate the insights you give. Cheers

 

[Mojo]

Hmmm, just wondering if the Canadian courts would have the gonads to prosecute polygamist homosexuals.

 

[Elijahsfire]

Hmmm, just wondering if the Canadian courts would have the gonads to prosecute polygamist homosexuals.

I'm not Canadian but I would assume a big fat NO. same would probably go with Utah here in the states.

 

[FollowingHim]

Hmmm, just wondering if the Canadian courts would have the gonads to prosecute polygamist homosexuals.

They would have no interest in doing so. Such laws only exist to give a means to persecute people who are out of public favour. Homosexuals are in favour so are safe.

 

[Mojo]

They would have no interest in doing so. Such laws only exist to give a means to persecute people who are out of public favour. Homosexuals are in favour so are safe.

Precisely. Imagine the outcry?

 

[FollowingHim]

But that gives any Christian polygamists a probably quite effective way to get the authorities off their tail instantly. The first time the authorities come knocking, imply that the wives are in a lesbian relationship and ask if they intend to discriminate against you over your sexuality. I'm dead serious about this. It's a very plausible situation, half the world already thinks that's the only reason anyone would be polygamous. If the wives are friendly enough to kiss on the lips at least as a once-off, do so in front of the official. Use the system to your advantage. There's always an opportunity hidden in every problem.

 

[Mojo]

But that gives any Christian polygamists a probably quite effective way to get the authorities off their tail instantly. The first time the authorities come knocking, imply that the wives are in a lesbian relationship and ask if they intend to discriminate against you over your sexuality. I'm dead serious about this. It's a very plausible situation, half the world already thinks that's the only reason anyone would be polygamous. If the wives are friendly enough to kiss on the lips at least as a once-off, do so in front of the official. Use the system to your advantage. There's always an opportunity hidden in every problem.

Even better yet, one of the wives is multi-sexual or gender neutral!

So, on certain days she identifies as a man and is in a gay union with her husband. On other days, she identifies as female and is in a lesbian union with the other wife.

I got it!

 

[frederick]

 

[Shadowjak's Dancer]

Boils my blood they are okay with polyamory, and will go to efforts to make that exception as opposed to the supposedly great societal evil of consenting and committed adults.

 

[Lili]

It's crazy to me that any government can tell me what I'm allowed to do in my life when it doesn't hurt anybody. My husband, his wives, and myself: those are the only parties who ever had any say in whether or not I joined a polygamous marriage. That's *it*.

 

[Mojo]

It's crazy to me that any government can tell me what I'm allowed to do in my life when it doesn't hurt anybody. My husband, his wives, and myself: those are the only parties who ever had any say in whether or not I joined a polygamous marriage. That's *it*.

They fear the religion, not the sexual implications.

 

[rustywest4]

Allowing a strongly Biblically rooted practice such as polygyny to go unpunished would in a way acknowledge its legitimacy. This is unacceptable in the liberal culture they wish to build and perpetuate. It must be squashed and squeezed out at all costs!

 

[frederick]

Keep in mind that it's a spiritual battle that underlies not only the conflict over marriage/polygamy but over every absolute in the word of God. Whatever God says, Satan comes along and challenges it. Take heart folks; it began in the Garden and it hasn't changed - and the battle won't be over until we are in the new heaven and new earth.

 

[Shadowjak's Dancer]

It does get me wondering, though, whether Biblical Polygyny could be argued in reframed terms of Committed Polyamory in order to broach the subject in a way that is already far more culturally acceptable without inviting the immediate hostility that polygamy usually faces. One may then be able to demonstrate that the anti-Polygyny sentiment is no longer consistent with relationship diversity in modern society, etc.

I mean, sure, I gag at the very thought of using their own arguments, even to use against them, but if it is the language they understand...

 

[Mojo]

It does get me wondering, though, whether Biblical Polygyny could be argued in reframed terms of Committed Polyamory in order to broach the subject in a way that is already far more culturally acceptable without inviting the immediate hostility that polygamy usually faces. One may then be able to demonstrate that the anti-Polygyny sentiment is no longer consistent with relationship diversity in modern society, etc.

I mean, sure, I gag at the very thought of using their own arguments, even to use against them, but if it is the language they understand...

Which is why you do t keep records

Just hold a private ceremony of witnesses and live like a polyamorous family. Claim lifestyle choice discrimination if they come after you!

 

[Shibboleth]

It does get me wondering, though, whether Biblical Polygyny could be argued in reframed terms of Committed Polyamory in order to broach the subject in a way that is already far more culturally acceptable without inviting the immediate hostility that polygamy usually faces. One may then be able to demonstrate that the anti-Polygyny sentiment is no longer consistent with relationship diversity in modern society, etc.

I mean, sure, I gag at the very thought of using their own arguments, even to use against them, but if it is the language they understand...

I'd be wary of that approach. I came across this Venn Diagram today, which demonstrates that they view "religious polygamy" (top right corner) as being completely detached from any other form.

 

[Mojo]

Ewwwww! And biblical polygynists are the bad guys?

 

[FollowingHim]

It's a bit odd. It's not entirely clear that only the biblical polygamists are the "bad guys" in the mind of whoever wrote it. For instance, notice a few examples in the main bulk of the mess like: "As your Dom, I've arranged this gang-bang for you. Have fun!" and "No, seriously, we're a poly / mono couple. My wife just doesn't know". I can't see any author writing those as "good" examples. It's just a complete mess of everything the author could possibly think of.