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There Literally Aren't Enough Men Out There

What that the first article can only hint at is that the system is increasingly pushing men out of college, overtly and covertly. Additionally men are increasingly realizing college is a bad investment. But women, who often evaluate value not directly but via consensus markers, will be slow to realize this and so not just overrepresent in collage, but be slow to realize a degree is a bad marker of high status men.

There is also this problem in with 'where of all the good men gone' in that at some point they get married and whats left are the one's who won't commit, or won't commit to you. By definition. If women started marrying earlier, this would be less of a problem.

I am not surprised this conversation quickly went MGTOW, it is the biggest change in society since the 60's and will have increasingly larger affects on the social discourse. And because it's growth among the younger generation won't be felt in marriage rates for another 10-15 years, it's affects will be delayed but once they really kick off, quite rapid.
 
I'm sure part of the declining divorce rate is that there are fewer people marrying in the first place.
I remember hearing that one of the reasons the divorce rate dropped in Nevada was that they came up with marriages that are only for a specified length of time, and basically expire. So, no divorce needed. Crazy stuff me thinks!
 
Related? Yes. It is more on the side of criticism of men that have effectively given up. I don’t agree with giving up; but by the same token, I vehemently disagree with giving in. IMO, to give in to the modern culture’s view of “equality” is to repeat “the fall” of Adam and Eve all over again. In short or brevity, Adam and Eve were co-equal, but she was not content with that based on the serpent’s “grabbing” statement (Hours/pages of details left out here). The deeper issue is not about equality, it is the total destruction of what God’s original creation was intended. Men and women have totally perverted God’s original intent. The Devil has attempted similar perversions in every truth and not just marriage (more left out for the sake of brevity). I myself would try to share/show to a MGTOW individual that the right/Biblical view is where they need to be focused, which is to find God’s view on marriage, stay with It (His view), never give up on Biblical marriage, and then share that with all that will lend an ear. What feminism does not realize, just like Eve, that their “plan” for domination, all in the name of equality, is actually a plan for feminism’s failure. IMO, based on numerous examples in the Scriptures, the plans of evil men (and women) who would set God’s will, plan, or Word aside; these plans always sounded good, but would always fail. In fact sometimes it would be even worse, in that it would achieve the opposite. i. e. The Fall in Genesis, Balaam’s cursing of Israel, and the most profound of all . . . The Crucifixion. If we truly knew the original sin that caused all the mess we are in today, then we would easily and more clearly understand polygyny and it’s origin. Again, brevity here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, some brevity. :rolleyes::D:D
 
In short or brevity, Adam and Eve were co-equal,
No, they were not.
She was created for him.

Adam and Lilith, now that was a different matter.
And a whole different discussion. ;)
 
No, they were not.
She was created for him.
Adam and Lilith, now that was a different matter.
And a whole different discussion. ;)
I agree she was created for him. Yet, if she were subordinate to Adam to begin with, then why was part of God’s punishment for the woman to be subordinate to Adam. If a punishment by any form that does not change that state of the individual is truly no punishment at all. The same is for the serpent. If he was always on his belly as many presume, then there was no punishment at all. What many do not see is that there were two covenants in Genesis. Jesus even spoke of it. AT the beginning there was one male and one female. Then FROM the beginning, there is one male and many females in creation. This is where many monogamist beliefs come from (Paganism too). If we can take the time to study this out we can see exactly where God allowed/institutes polygyny. It is ironic that because of Eve’s actions, she brought about polygyny. That beg’s the question, “What were Eve’s actions?”
 
Yet, if she were subordinate to Adam to begin with, then why was part of God’s punishment for the woman to be subordinate to Adam.
Sorry @Curtis Gerhart I agree with @steve she was created as a helper for him. A helper is subordinate to the one they're suppose to help. Otherwise their not a helper.

Genesis 2:18 (ESV,OJB)

18 “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him .

18 And Hashem Elohim said, It is not tov that the adam should be alone; I will make him an ezer (a helper) suitable for him.

Genesis 3:16 (ESV,OJB)

16 To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband,
but he shall rule over you.”

16 Unto HaIsha He said, I will greatly multiply thy itzavon ([labor] pain) and thy childbearing; in pain thou shalt bring forth banim; and thy teshukah (longing, desire) shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

It's the same pattern punishing the snake and Adam. Punishment then Statement on how things will be. I don't see anything there to suggest that Eve's actions brought about Polygyny like it's some sort of punishment either.
 
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A helper is subordinate to the one they're suppose to help. Otherwise their not a helper.

Can't stress that enough. She was created to help him. It was Adam's prerogative to direct and judge the helper. The way you know this is true is to note that Adam named her. Co-equals and subordinates do not name the other; only a master has the authority to name. Likewise Adam named all the animals, which he also had dominion over.

Genesis 3:16 (ESV)...To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.”

This speaks to a duality in woman regarding their desires for men. Woman often have this drive to test, rebel, resist, or change their man. Even though they want a strong man, they often can't submit to him upfront; instead needing to be conquered, desiring it even. And when they get a strong man they frequently work to castrate him. And if they succeed, they hate him for it.

Such is the curse and temptation of women. But God is clear about the hierarchy between man and woman that He desires, and He likens it to the hierarchy between Him and Christ and between Christ and the church; things which are created from the beginning and not born of the fall.
 
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When Eve ate the fruit nothing happened. When Adam ate the fruit everything changed. Eve was under Adam. He could've told her off for taking the fruit and brought her into line and nothing would have changed, but instead he ate the fruit too and then sin entered the world.
Being under, being a help meet, being subservient to, none of these are bad things. Women, and sometimes men, come up with all sorts of ways to try and make the bible say that men and women are equal. Unfortunately their definition of equal is wrong. Does YHWH love us equally? Of course He does. Do we have equal roles? Of course we don't.
 
When Eve ate the fruit nothing happened. When Adam ate the fruit everything changed. Eve was under Adam. He could've told her off for taking the fruit and brought her into line and nothing would have changed, but instead he ate the fruit too and then sin entered the world.
Being under, being a help meet, being subservient to, none of these are bad things. Women, and sometimes men, come up with all sorts of ways to try and make the bible say that men and women are equal. Unfortunately their definition of equal is wrong. Does YHWH love us equally? Of course He does. Do we have equal roles? Of course we don't.

Boom!
 
When Adam ate the fruit everything changed.

The first Adam had two options: sin by eating the fruit, or while he was still without sin, intercede with God for his bride. He made the wrong choice and failed.
So when only Eve had sinned we still had a way out. After Adam had sinned as well, we had no acceptable way out, we all needed another Adam who would succeed.

The second Adam avoided sin and now intercedes for his bride:
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
 
It's easy to go to Romans as the typical proof text, where Paul lays it all out clearly: one man's disobedience vs. one man's obedience. First Adam, last Adam... But studying Hosea in a Bible study tonight, I noticed the same principle there:

Hosea 6:7. But they [Ephraim], like Adam, have broken the covenant. They were unfaithful to me, there.
 
When G-d was looking for them in the Garden, after they had eaten the fruit, he did not say “Adam and Eve where are you?”

Gen 3:9

But the L-rd G-d called to the man, “Where are you?”

And Hashem Elohim called unto HaAdam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

It is Adam who G-d was calling for to render an account. Eve is not without blame but G-d calls out Adam. Adam had headship and in this sense the first sin is fittingly called the “Sin of Adam.”
 
Job (Iyov) also calls out Adam for trying to hide his sin.

Job 31:33

33 If I have hidden my transgressions like Adam, concealing my offenses inside me

33 If I concealed my peysha like Adam, by hiding mine avon in my heart,
 
I agree she was created for him. Yet, if she were subordinate to Adam to begin with, then why was part of God’s punishment for the woman to be subordinate to Adam. If a punishment by any form that does not change that state of the individual is truly no punishment at all.

I agree with the many posts above that Eve was subordinate, technically: helpmeet, to Adam. The point not addressed is how that role changed after Adam sinned. She now had an unrighteous head/leader. As such, he would lord it over her, exemplified immediately by his casting blame on her instead of shielding her. The curse on woman was that she would need and cleave to he which in sinful behavior would abuse his headship.
 
The point not addressed is how that role changed after Adam sinned. She now had an unrighteous head/leader.

I think that is tricky if we don't think of it as Adam representing God/Christ and the woman representing the redeemed bride.

If we do, then I think we can take this reference:
Eze 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

(First use of that same word:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. )

Back in Ezekiel who do we think might be worthy to sit on the throne? Adam? I don't think so, I don't think Adam (any other man) merits being on the throne Ezekiel saw. Only Christ deserves that.


The redeemed bride comprises brothers and sisters, not just sisters. So if the sister represents the redeemed bride, the sister represents brethren as well, both are in submission to the bridegroom.

The sisters keep silence in the presence of the brethren, but of course, when brethren are absent, sisters do from necessity many of the things (with their children for instance) that brethren would do if they were present.
When Christ is absent, brethren are charged with doing all sorts of things that Christ would do if he were present. So when he is back, brethren will keep silence as well in his presence.
Hab 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

At the moment, brethren are privileged to represent Christ in his absence.
Sisters actually represent the redeemed bride and that's a privilege as well, to represent the ones that will be judged worthy. And so sisters represent the brethren as well, for all must be subordinate to Christ.

I don't think any of that did change, because although Adam and Eve changed, God stayed above, and the relationship of angels and humans stayed beneath. It's just that things got moved around a bit down here.
The process of ageing was introduced (dying thou shalt die), and men and women were both cursed in that universal human aspiration of family: the man was cursed in his role of provider, and the woman in bearing children.

So in the present roles that God has decreed for brethren and sisters, they should both combine in one harmonious unity to represent the future glory when the family that God intends to make up will be revealed in the fulness of time.
 
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"desire" in Gen 3:16 only occurs 3x. Once in the Song of Solomon, and the other time is with reference to Cain and Abel
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Son 7:10 I am my beloved's, and his desire is toward me.

I think Cain gives us the clue: that desire H8669 is not the sexual desire of coveting a neighbour's wife. (It is probably that as the natural firstborn, if he behaved himself he would be accepted as the Melchisedek priest of the family. But he didn't want to officiate in cutting up sacrifices, and in the next verse he cut up Abel. (Gk sphazo 1Jn 3:12 to slaughter or butcher).

What was Eve's desire?
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Eve's desire was to bear the seed that was promised her that would bring reconciliation to God
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

and after Cain had killed Abel she said
Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Which leaves us the Song of Solomon. that might be sexual attraction - but is it?
Son 7:10 I am my beloved's, and his desire is toward me.
That is the desire of the the bridegroom to his bride, and this was the desire of Christ:
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

So I think the common theme established from these other references to desire shows that H8669 is not about human interaction but rather the means by which reconciliation to God can be obtained, which ultimately was by the perfect sacrifice of Christ, and which became necessary immediately after the Fall.
 
Btw: I heard a presentation one time by Larry Crabb. He wrote a book, The Silence of Adam.
The theme is that in the Hebrew it is obvious that Adam was standing right there when she was tempted and ate of it.
It was his job to protect her and he did not.
Even though she took that first bite, he was there and had the right and the responsibility to put a halt to the process.

Now that I think about it, this book might just be a great tool for instilling patriarchy.
 
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