Can faith and love thrive in polygyny?

[SonoLumen]

Yep, she is an amazing woman and has blessed me tremendously by trusting to follow me.

I am trying to temper myself, and will consider it a tool it my toolbox, but I am personally a bit more convicted than that, and I don't see much wisdom in delaying the literal practical pursuit of it. I'm at a good age and in a good position to do so, and at least to me there seems to be a sense of personal social responsibility to Christian men and the world in general to do so.

May you also be blessed in your efforts in finding a second wife, and in my hope, sooner rather then later.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Not sure if this is helpful or not. These are just ?s & A's I've gone through lately.

PERMISSION VRS COMMANDMENT

Does the idea that polygyny is acceptable to God = permission to be in poly? - Y

Does the idea that poly is acceptable to God = directive to be poly? N

Does the fact that a member of your assembly is without a husband = permission to pursue/contemplate meeting that need? Y. = directive to meet that need thru poly? N

Does the gender imbalance permit me to take another wife? IMHO it is irrelevant
My acceptance of another responsibility has nothing to do with how many there are available and everything to do with the quality of the individual or the circumstances, and in case those are not acceptable or agreeable to me, I would have to have a direct revelation spoken by God, to me (as in Hosea) before I could do that.

Is the kinsman redeemer clause legitimate today? IMHO of everything that I have read or studied to date, this is the only reason that has the force of a positive commandment (Thou shalt). All other reasons I have seen have the authority of being permissible, in other words a neutral authority (If you do), or are directly excluded (Thou shalt not).

If the situation indicates the acceptability as well as the need for the kinsman response (indicated by Torah whether spiritual or familial kinship) should we not also follow the guidelines or sequences indicated by Scripture as being appropriate?
I.e. Next of "kin"/first in line, dictated only in the case of no male heir, intercourse being required only to ensure an heir. She had the right to a son, but was not necessarily bound to the brother to continue the physical relationship. He was bound to provide an heir and sustenance for them as his brother would have until the son's majority at which point the son would assume control of his fathers property and care for his mother. If the kinsman and the mother chose to continue beyond that point that was entirely up to the discretion of both parties. Any additional children beyond the heir would be considered the children of that father.

Or, if there is already an heir at death, return to the fathers house (either side) till the heir is at his majority unless another wished to wed her. In this case kinsman redeemer clause does not apply. They can be married, just cannot claim kinsman status as justification if it were needed.

What factors change the dynamic from permissible (simply because you can)to need (because you are fulfilling the kinsman role) in the case of the widow in the assembly? Because she is Destitute? Because she has young children? Because she is horny? Because she is lonely? Because she needs protection? Because she needs a spiritual head?

IMHO each of these could be acceptable reasons? to bring another wife into covenant, (depending on the situation) but are they truly a legitimate reason to assume the headship and responsibilities associated with that decision? The question I think I would ask myself first is, Is there any other possible way to meet those needs without assuming the headship or ADWNI over this family? A very important role of the Adown ' standing in the door of the tent' was not just to offer the 'smoke' or lead in repentance, but also to guard the tent (as well as the bed) from unwise or in some cases evil influences or decisions.

I suppose it could be said that I tend to err on the side of caution. I am the type that will follow as soon as I am certain and am known for putting out impossible fleeces. Why? Because I know that there is a roaring lion out there and his mission is to destroy the blessings that God has entrusted me with. As a man with natural tendencies, I recognize that it is possible for me to be deceived. It is also my responsibility to have my senses exercised to discern between good and evil. The destroyer has no power over my family that God does not allow unless I allow something through the door that puts distance between us. (Solomon is a great example as well as Baalim's advice). By putting out these impossible (to anyone but God) fleeces, and listening to His Spirit, I believe that He will guide us into all truth and protect us from the destroyer if we will allow Him to.

One of my favorite passages is in Psalms 19. Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins, let them not have dominion over me, then I shall be upright and I shall be innocent of the great transgression. Let the words of my mouth (covenants?) and the meditations of my heart (desires) be acceptable in thy sight, oh LORD, my strength and my redeemer.

I'm sure with all the very good scholars we have in the forum that this will get picked apart and I welcome logical, biblical replies. I am somewhat new to accepting the legitimacy of biblical polygyny and have tried to do my own studying on the subject. So far these are the conclusions I've reached.

Btw. To the mods, I wasn't trying to hijack the thread. If it needs to go elsewhere that's fine

 

[FollowingHim]

Given the fact that polygyny is so generally unaccepted in our society, and the great difficulties that any plural family will face as a result, on top of the greater complexity of polygyny compared to monogamy anyway, it is very prudent to be cautious. You might be being slightly more cautious than strictly necessary, but if you are erring it's the safest direction to err in. We see too many families jumping in too quickly and ending up in terrible messes, it is quite refreshing to have someone like yourself with a very cautious approach.

But:
When you married your wife, did she desperately "need" you to marry her to solve some massive practical problems in her life, and did you spend a lot of time trying to figure out how you could solve those problems without marrying her, only marrying her as a last resort when you could see no other way to help her?
Or did you want to marry her, feel that God agreed, and so chose to marry her as the first option, not seriously considering alternatives at all?
Why should the decision-making process prior to polygyny be any different?

I cannot recall ever pondering before marrying my wife "although monogamy is permissible, is it necessary?"; "does she really NEED marriage, or is this just a want?"; "is there any other possible way to meet her needs without assuming headship over her?".

You speak as though polygyny is an absolutely last-resort option, only to be entered into for extremely practical reasons and only if there is absolutely no other option to provide those practical needs. You realise polygyny is technically acceptable to YHWH, but because you have been raised in a culture that disapproves of it, you appear to still have an automatic aversion to it. That's understandable right now. And over time this aversion may gradually reduce through familiarity, and your attitude towards what situations may be appropriate may change also.

So keep being cautious, it will save you a lot of grief. But remember that sometimes a man and woman may wish to marry simply because they love each other, and if scripture says nothing against that, then it's ok, whether or not it's strictly "necessary".

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Those are great points. I thought about addressing them above but decided not to for sake of focus and brevity. My focus was intended to be on the widow.

I think I was trying to approach the subject from the Good to Great dynamic. Yes it is permissible to marry both a first and additional wives for love. The determining factors in that equation are the individuals involved and God.

Please note that when I'm referring to permissible, I'm referring to Godly permission, not cultural. I'm kind of a having done all, to stand type. I like the quote by Crockett, Davy Crockett. "There's no stopping a man who's in the right, knows he's in the right, and keeps on coming!
Is it permissible to marry another woman? In all but a few instances yes (adultery, incest). Is it always wise to marry another woman? Imho. It depends entirely on the woman. In my heart I'm ecstatic for those who have been blessed and God has considered them worthy of double or triple honor. In like manner I also grieve, as I'm sure others do, when a home is torn apart whether mono or poly.
I believe it is possible to learn from both examples both what to do and what not to do.
In a theoretically perfect mono or poly household, the adults engaging in marriage would be pure until covenant/consumation, have been raised in a Godly home, each individually mature in their faith and committed to following Christ. Then to make it even better, they would have similar world views on politics, doctrine, headship, homemaking, children and money. And the icing on the cake, poly is accepted culturally by everyone inside the relationship as well as outside of it.
Even with this marital utopia, there will be issues to work through, childbirth and providing for the needs of each other. Each of these things having a possible negative or positive effect. Even with the utopia mentioned there's no guarantee in this day and age that it will survive.
In my perspective, a wise man counts the cost before building, then double and triple checks his figures before breaking ground. It's much easier to make changes or adjustments on paper. In my profession I am a General Contractor. Part of my job is to compare the blueprints with the job site, check for anything that could hinder or halt the timely completion of a structurally sound project and address any potential issues before we break ground and in some cases before the contract is signed. With the best possible oversight every job will still have its own flies in the ointment that will need to be addressed as they surface. There are many customers who have approached a custom home with great anticipation and enthusiasm only to swear by the end of the job they will never repeat the experience. It became hell on earth. With few exceptions, all of the major issues that they faced could have been successfully avoided by being more cautious in their choice of a GC, their lot, or their architect. As a GC, often the factor that has the most to do with success is the client. Part of the job is to manage people and their expectations. Knowing how to do this can be the difference between irate customers and ones who think you walk on water. It is also advisable to know when to fold em and walk away presumably pre contract.

I may have come across that I think it's a last resort option. That was not my intent. I believe that poly can be and was designed to be a beautiful tool by God to provide symbiotic helpful relationships just like mono. It can be a beautiful thing. I just see the danger in approaching this for anyone who currently has a blessed home and has not counted the cost in a risk vrs reward. It is the bird in hand dilemma. Is it possible to acquire the other one in the bush? Maybe. Is it possible to acquire it without losing the one in hand? Maybe. Is it advisable? Maybe that is not for me to say. I just know that all of my 'works' will one day be tried by fire. It really makes me pause when counting the cost. Will my reason of love make it through that fire? I don't think I have that answer. I feel much more confident in biblically justified and directed need.
Thus, the reason for my approach above.

Please don't take this the wrong way. Im not trying to beat anyone about the head and shoulders over differences of opinion. I had a foreman years ago who told me, There's a good, better and best way to do everything. Sometimes the best way to do something on one job is not the best way to do it every time.
I realize as well that the Hosea directive and the kinsman throw a monkey wrench into the analogy but it's as close as this tired brain can get tonight.
I appreciate the mind stretching too.