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Balance for washing in the word....

captainjonathan

captainjonathan

Member
Real Person
Okay.... a bit of personal exposure.....

When does washing in the Word become overly chastising? I have run into a brick wall. My leadership was so poor for so many years, we are playing catch up. I led such an undisciplined life and it was not taught discipline as a child, so now i have to walk so close to anal that I don't stray. To that end, I led my bride from discipline to not and now am trying to correct a decade of past damage. The first issue was getting her back home. Did that. Next was rage/ pride. It got ugly, boy did it get ugly. Now it is obedience and grace. She is struggling with grace for herself. When you have no grace for self, you can have none for others. And obedience. We did an exercise (ended BAD) where i asked her to do dishes with me, (warned her that this was just an exercise to make a point) I told her I would wash and she was to dry and put them away and if there were none in the rack to stand by me and talk to me. She went outside, she cleaned the bathroom, she swept the floor, she made drinks, emptied ice trays etc. Anything but stand by me, all the while I was trying to get her to come back and stand by me. I encounter this A LOT where I say, Hey we are going to sit here and talk, or we need to go do this, or.... and there is every thing done except what I had asked. When pushed like this, I get very legalistic. She feels beat up, I have offered to let her make the rules. Okay, if I am such a pathetic leader, lead, or lets discuss how Christ led. She says she knows what to do, she just fights it and won't do it. How do I make it easier for her? How do I deal with it when she just refuses? Do I ignore it and move on? Do I stop calling that which is sin, sin? Do I let her set a bad example for SW by letting ehr get away with it? HEEEELLLLLLLPPPPPPP!!!!! :?
 
Dunno that I hae great answers for you, Jonathon, but here are a couple of observations:

God gave mankind dominion over everything in this world EXCEPT each other. we are God's sons, nature's masters, man's SERVANTs, and hell's destroyer.

The problem with much teaching on male headship is that it confuses LEADERSHIP with DOMINION.

So lead. Go first & show the way, with love. In your dishes example, do them. Then do her part also. Then tell her you love her so much you did her part too, but really missed her beside you. She KNOWS that was her assigned position. Let the holy spirit convict. But YOU can pray, pray, pray.

But don't you have authority in your home? Yes you do. You're the husband. Now you must win the RULERSHIP.

Aren't they the same thing? No! Authority is conferred from above. Rulership is granted by those under that authority who either accept or rebel. David had the authority as king of Israel from the time Samuel anointed him. He didn't have the rulership until after Saul's death.

Honey draws more flies than vinegar. Blah, blah, blah.

Good luck, amigo. I and others aere actively praying for y'all.
 
Asked my wife why a woman might reject this particular instruction. Is she not so much trying to disobey, but rather avoid spending one on one time discussing things with you? Does she know you'll want to have a serious discussion about something she may find emotionally difficult, and doesn't want that discussion, so disobeys? Find out what she is really thinking, it may not be what you expect.
 
In this case guys it was a peaceful time. We were not having any arguments. I was not seeking a "talk" Rather for years I have begged her companionship while I do tasks. Just ask her to hang out in a chair and watch me work and keep me company, or at most difficult to play step and fetch it, while I build and work. This was just used as a teaching example. At the time we had been discussing polygamy. That discussion was her excuse to fight about anything. The point being (and I gave her the opportunity to prove me wrong) that she just doesnt want to submit/obey/follow period.
 
this may take a very long time.
she may have learned from previous relationships (parents?) that a man cannot be trusted to lead. in past mistakes you may have deepened that feeling.

one possibility is to encourage her to follow your lead in the way that she would like to see you following Yeshua's lead. and then you model the submission as you submit to Yeshua.
 
The uncle who raised me taught me two simple phrases that he felt a man should lead his family with:

1. The focus of a man is freedom and respect

2. The focus of a woman is love and expression

Now I will get back to these two statements in a moment but first I will share my lessons learned.

I dealt with almost the exact same problem. I was disconnected from my first wife (wife31800 here in the forum) for several years, I didn't really communicate, I didn't lead, I didn't show her love and affection, and I thought, "she should be happy to have a man like myself". Part of me felt none of that stuff was necessary, I was in the marines and gone most of the time anyways, so she should learn to handle herself without me.

Well then all of the changes we weren't expecting hit us. My career with the marines came to a halt, we had kids, I got a 9am-5pm type job (more like 5am-10pm job). Then she becomes disrespectful of me (what every man hates) and I wasn't being loving and affectionate (like every woman needs). So guess what... In a few years we both messed up, because we didn't get what we needed from each other we went where we would get it. She left and went to her mothers (Everyman will agree that is a huge slap in the face) and I went off the deep end. To make this long story short, By the time the smoke cleared from all of this we had moved twice to get farther away from our families and gained a second wife. We had screamed and yelled and cried with each other in ways we never had before. We both thought about calling it quits on a daily basis. We almost came to dread our time together because we knew we were either going to argue or spend the next few hours fixing what we had done wrong. And just like your wife, she took polygamy as a reason to throw everything at me that I had done wrong. I also took it as my opportunity to point out all of her flaws. We both finally realized the problem...we were both right about what had been done to each other but were wrong for using it against each other. More so than that we realized where we failed each other. It took a while but the arguing paid off. I can't pinpoint an exact moment, action, or statement but we both realized exactly what my uncle preached. Men just want freedom and respect while women want love and to express themselves.

Here is the hard part... You are the leader, you can't wait for her to take the first step. You have to love her FIRST and unconditionally. You can't love her for a short time and then quit because she hasn't started respecting you. As the leader you can't say, "I will give it to her when she does what she should to deserve it". NOPE, it won't happen. Exactly as the word says "lead"... That means to be first.

Now to take those two statements just a little further

Women have to be led with love. When a woman is loved by her husband (and he shows her, perhaps by doing the dishes) she is more likely to follow him. Having someone follow your leadership is far easier than demanding obedience to your leadership.

When a man is upset, depressed, or negative there is something that has encroached on his ability to handle his freedom. THIS IS NOT FREEDOM FROM A WIFE OR FAMILY, but rather freedom with them (I had to clear that quick I could feel the estrogen bomb that was about to explode). Whether that is freedom to handle his debts appropriately, freedom to handle his own career, or freedom to handle his family his way. Not necessarily freedom "from" the problem but freedom "with" the problem. Men love the challenge we get from being able to manage a loan for a few years, or build a successful career from scratch, or make that important family decision that you know is best. When we get angry or negative with our wives it is because we feel they have done something to jeopardize our freedom, even the little things like taking out the trash can be big. Especially when US MEN are sitting there relaxing watching the ball game that WE were free to watch until YOU WOMEN came in and interfered with the silly trash.

However, women need love to feel energized. So because you didn't take the trash out when she "expressed" it to you, it somehow shows that you don't love her and that the ball game is more important than her. I think you follow where I am going now. If she is upset or depressed with a specific problem she doesn't feel "loved" by it or she feels she can't love what ever has her upset. When she is mad at you or whoever, you will find little hints in her words or body language that tells you she doesn't feel loved but then on the other hand think about when you maybe brought her flowers or something and how that put her in heaven and nothing upset her for the rest of the day. My favorite "expression" to point out to my ladies is when the house is dirty hehe, they don't feel like they can "love" the house and no matter what we go do they won't enjoy it until that house is clean and they can love it.

Alright I am going to shut up now

I've took the long way to say Cecil is right, when you do something for her do it because you love her, not just because it has to get done (like the dishes).

Lead with Love
 
well said :D
 
eternitee said:
Yep - good job JP :)
Click to expand...

Umm..... Did God perform a miracle? hehehheehehee

Anyway... I was (you can ask her) doing this out out love. The dishes were not something I was doing "for" her. We always share housework. This was an illustration of inability to follow. She loves to clean. Even in the cleaning (doing something she enjoys) she was unable to come alongside. That was the point of the exercise. If she was vacuuming and I asked her to keep going, at this point she would have stopped and not vacuumed until I stopped the request.

That being said... there has been a dramatic change of heart. She is beginning to be that loving doe I fell in love with. Things with my bride always get very ugly right before they break and change.

THANK YOU GOD!
 
Amen!
 
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