Betrayed

[Beta]

Wondering if this is a normal experience when you've begun to understand and accept the biblical truth of polygamy...and kind of late in the journey, but...

...this afternoon I just suddenly was overwhelmed by a sense of betrayal by my society as I reflected on the fact that all the time I was married (and beyond) I bought into the idea that my husband belonged to me...it was what I had been taught and told, what even my husband (who religiously could have been poly) was led to believe. I don't know if I feel angry...or sad...but just betrayed. I don't like even the thought that I believed a lie. Shows how vulnerable we are as human beings.

I also thought about my sister, whose situation, okay it may not have made a difference in the end, but still may have. If she had been taught differently she might have handled the "he cheated on me" differently, and found other options for dealing with the situation she found herself in. He may have cheated on her...but the greater truth is that she was cheated...cheated more by society as I was.

I also feel betrayed that there are so many godly men who ought to have discernment...and who know the inner workings of a man and should be able to figure out His design from the clues (men, please tell me if I'm wrong). Godly men, who have spiritual discernment, should realize that he owns his wife and his wife does not own him. He should be able to see through the cultural smog and realize that what his body says he needs from woman, whether he is married or not, and whether directed at his wife or not... are desires which are simply built-in to being a man...if I understand it correctly.

Am I a little carried away with that? I can't imagine a woman not understanding what is inherently inside of her heart and being, especially a godly woman led by the Spirit of God, and seeing temptation where there is none...but perhaps I need an example.

Beta

 

[welltan]

You are correct in my opinion that men should be able to figure out the truth if they have access to Scripture and know God. It has required some independent thought because of the great pressure by society that plural is wrong, but the truth is attainable. As plural is more widely visable, the initial reason why men may become aware or interested in plural becomes more diverse and studying the facts and making up ones mind on the issue becomes easier and quicker to resolve. It is easy to feel we have all been betrayed by a society and organized religion that has in fact itself been duped by Satan to hide the truth. But perhaps those that are still in the dark on this issue should be prayed for. Even though I am not a woman, I think we can all have empathy for ladies who look back in their past to marriage failures or problems that actually were opportunities for a woman to love her husband or a potential plural lady. 'I wish someone told me I could have loved more' is an opportunity missed. But it is ok to add to this feeling with 'from now on, we will all love more'
Men can also look back after having relational or sexual problems or perhaps the conflict of loving two women and trying to resolve the problem productively, yet perhaps failing to do so.
I guess we all just have to start from here, wherever we are right now with God's help.

 

[DaPastor]

Beta,

I have never quite looked at it from the angle you have shared. Very interesting! I suppose many feminists would have a real hard time with what you shared, but from a pure Biblical perspective - wow! Great insight!

 

[Beta]

Thanks...
I guess we do all have to start over from here. And feminists have trouble with a whole lot of things, they are not exactly people I look up to. I'm not sure if there's even one thing I agree with them on.

You know, I always followed the same principle in other areas, why didn't I see it here? I never felt that I had to make sure my husband towed the line like some women. I followed the principle that he answers directly to God. He makes mistakes, they aren't my business or worry (other than to pray). I believe it's a sin to do otherwise, a woman putting herself in the place of God to him. But I always felt I answered to him and had no problem with that. I guess I was halfway there, so it wasn't hard to get all the way, but yet I'm still feeling all this. It IS societal betrayal for both men and women.

I appreciate the comments and male perspective.

 

[Curtis]

I am a feminist and I am not offended at all. I am highly in favor of women and the promotion of true femininity not to be confused with the typical misnomer that bears the same name that destroys women, men, marriages, families, and everything built upon that foundation.

Shawna and I really enjoyed your comments Beta. I think that false religious indoctrination can cause one to totally miss the testimony of "natural law" so much that we find ourselves professing to be wise but truly as you pointed out becoming fools. I stand convicted by your words for years of personal ignorance and the promotion of lies.

It is interesting that we so often try to present ourselves in a more "pious" light than Yah himself showing how far we have departed from His character.

Beta - Very well said, very insightfully convicting, and very telling of our true view as a people of the character of our loving Creator.

Sincerely,

Curtis

 

[Beta]

Curtis,
Well, by your description I would be a feminist, but I don't like that term. Besides the connotations given it by the movement, I also don't consider one gender over another just because I am one of them. That seems to me to be promoting only half of the whole of God's beautiful creation. That's besides the distorting of it. Promoting the feminine is non-promoting of the masculine, which is the same as demeaning it or giving it lesser promotion. How can this be right? It's no better than the masculine demeaning of the feminine, and has had tragic results as you said. And the pendulum swings...one extreme to the other. Nothing gained.

There was nothing wrong with trying to do something about the abuse of women - just that they haven't done that as far as I can tell. It's worse than ever. I love the right to vote, but the right to pay taxes :mrgreen: and everything else comes with it... besides that my grandma always voted against my grandpa so they might as well have stayed home and saved the gas money!

I appreciate your repentance for the ignorance of promoting the lies, though I didn't mean to condemn anyone specifically. Repentance is always good and healing. I was thinking about people like Billy Graham for example... but then that could be a case of the Lord had enough for him to handle and he did what He gave him to do, and did it well. ( :idea: And we need to do what He's given us to do well too - hmmm) I was thinking about many years of missionaries come and gone. Maybe the Lord wasn't really disturbed about all the monogamy until the sins of it really started piling up with women and children out on the street, families broken up, kids torn between households, etc... After all, it's not a sin to have one wife.

What scares me is that we may have other lies in ourselves that we don't know about yet. It can't be good. So we need to keep walkin' hand-in-hand with Jesus, and let Him lead us by His Spirit into ALL TRUTH.

Beta

 

[Beta]

Welltan,

I know the organized church has been duped by Satan in this and many other ways. And you're right, we should pray for the people who are still in the dark. Personally I've got my hands full already...one billion people duped and on their way to a very dark place, some I care deeply for. But you're right, you're definitely right.

The Holy Spirit is still active in this world, but few follow to the extent that He would lead!

Beta


Curtis's Shawna,

I forgot to say HI!

 

[Curtis]

Well, by your description I would be a feminist, but I don't like that term....

....I appreciate your repentance for the ignorance of promoting the lies, though I didn't mean to condemn anyone specifically.[/b]

Beta

I like the term mainly just for it's contrast value when used in situations where it allows me to shake the foundations of false paradigms. I know that all formal definitions would remain the polar opposite, but I tend to regularly reserve take the liberty to redefine words especially misnomers such as "feminist". So part of what came out there was my intentional use of dry truth based "humor".

Don't worry about condemning anyone, I just thought you stated things in such a blatantly obvious way that it really does rightly make you feel like an idiot for having ever believed anything else. I absolutely love it when truth comes across with that sharp of an edge.

Sincerely,

Curtis

 

[welltan]

I know the organized church has been duped by Satan in this and many other ways. And you're right, we should pray for the people who are still in the dark. Personally I've got my hands full already...one billion people duped and on their way to a very dark place, some I care deeply for. But you're right, you're definitely right.

I will help you pray. Thats only 1/2 billion for each of us. With God's help we can do it. And I think there are several already praying.

 

[sweetlissa]

If I pray will that mean it is only 1/3 of a billion. That seems much more manageable. LOL

SweetLissa

 

[steve]

What scares me is that we may have other lies in ourselves that we don't know about yet. It can't be good. So we need to keep walkin' hand-in-hand with Jesus, and let Him lead us by His Spirit into ALL TRUTH.

Beta

amen, amen, amen and....ahhhh......OH YES AMEN

 

[withfresheyes]

My Dear Beta - I want you to know that I too, share in your discoveries and sentiments. Only of late, have I come to learn His truths! When I came to the realization that Bibilical Polygamy is Scriptural, I wanted to turn and run! He would not allow me to do so. I have this insatiable hunger to know for a certain, that I still was not being deceived. I too, felt like I had been robbed and violated by a society that insists on going their way, and in reality, I felt they had lied to me. I now know they were simply ignorant and seemingly was not interested in knowing the truth for themselves! Instead of allowing Him to do a work in their heart. We have so much to learn and IMHO, you have come to the right spot. You will find love. caring and concern for your heart hurts here on BF. Our brothers and sisters in the Lord want to help those of us who are and will continue to seek answers. Continue to stay in His word and compare the councel you recieve here with His Word! I personally feel that here on BF, our brethern want us to always compare their councel with His Word. Welcom to the BF family. Some great people here!!

 

[Anonymous]

Beta said:

I'm not sure if there's even one thing I agree with them on.

"Equal pay for equal work" !! This would be the only issue that the feminists and I agree on.
Blessings,
Fairlight

 

[PolyPride]

Wondering if this is a normal experience when you've begun to understand and accept the biblical truth of polygamy...and kind of late in the journey, but...

...this afternoon I just suddenly was overwhelmed by a sense of betrayal by my society as I reflected on the fact that all the time I was married (and beyond) I bought into the idea that my husband belonged to me...it was what I had been taught and told, what even my husband (who religiously could have been poly) was led to believe. I don't know if I feel angry...or sad...but just betrayed. I don't like even the thought that I believed a lie. Shows how vulnerable we are as human beings.

You've brought up an important point. This is why I don't always accept the norms and customs of society as being some absolutely perfect or truthful standard. The United States and its laws are just a speck in history when you factor in all of the other civilizations and societies that exist today and that have existed throughout history. I also don't always accept the current or common or "popular" understanding of some in the Church. I tend to want to test "every" spirit, practice, and view to see if it is of God and His word. Other ways that I've found to reduce the chances of being misled is to be open-minded, open-hearted, and use the Holy Spirit and His word as a guide, so that you're not just vainly leaving yourself open to any standard to go by.

I should also mention that some people make it a hobby to always want to go against traditional thought or norms, the government, etc., but I only do so if I honestly sense with my mind and heart that there is something that should be challenged. I also don't have the time nor do I find it worthwhile trying to look for any and everything to challenge because some things you just gotta work with, just as long as it doesn't lead you to do something immoral.

I also thought about my sister, whose situation, okay it may not have made a difference in the end, but still may have. If she had been taught differently she might have handled the "he cheated on me" differently, and found other options for dealing with the situation she found herself in. He may have cheated on her...but the greater truth is that she was cheated...cheated more by society as I was.

I also feel betrayed that there are so many godly men who ought to have discernment...and who know the inner workings of a man and should be able to figure out His design from the clues (men, please tell me if I'm wrong). Godly men, who have spiritual discernment, should realize that he owns his wife and his wife does not own him. He should be able to see through the cultural smog and realize that what his body says he needs from woman, whether he is married or not, and whether directed at his wife or not... are desires which are simply built-in to being a man...if I understand it correctly.

Well, some of the things you're referring to is the result of mixing in non-Christian cultural norms into Christian beliefs.

Am I a little carried away with that? I can't imagine a woman not understanding what is inherently inside of her heart and being, especially a godly woman led by the Spirit of God, and seeing temptation where there is none...but perhaps I need an example.

Beta

How can you get carried away with speaking the truth?!

 

[Anonymous]

It is so amazing and encouraging to read post after post with the same underlying theme...those coming to the reality of the Biblical truth of plural marriage and not being able to deny the truths of God's Word.

I was so overwhelmed when I first realized that polygyny was God-ordered and God ordained (at least for our family). As these truths became more real and "normal" to me, I also had the sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that I, along with most of modern-day society, had swallowed a huge, poisonous lie that had infiltrated the church to its very core.

Beta, your comment about a wife not owning her husband is so relevant, especially to "submissive, conservative, Christian" women. The idea that they are on equal terms in their marriage... ie, they "own" their husband and their husband "owns" them, is the last bastion of feminist ideology in the church. It is just one more lie that the church as a whole has swallowed, and you'd better bet that women, submissive though they may be, will swallow this specific lie. It gives them power that they would not otherwise have, and speaking as a woman, it is oh-so-tempting to take power when it is available.

I appreciate all the other comments as well. They were all very applicable and helpful in strengthening my worldview in regards to this matter.

 

[Beta]

Beta, your comment about a wife not owning her husband is so relevant, especially to "submissive, conservative, Christian" women. The idea that they are on equal terms in their marriage... ie, they "own" their husband and their husband "owns" them, is the last bastion of feminist ideology in the church. It is just one more lie that the church as a whole has swallowed, and you'd better bet that women, submissive though they may be, will swallow this specific lie. It gives them power that they would not otherwise have, and speaking as a woman, it is oh-so-tempting to take power when it is available.

I am thankful for the posts here too. Deut30, You bring out the very good point that this is important to even the submissive Christian woman, that the temptation to take what power is available is very real. In fact, my eyes have been opened in that area, and I wonder, even, how much more there is for them to be opened to. Women are like children - they will take whatever leeway is given them and press for more when possible. But a child who learns to respect the boundaries and live and thrive within them does much better than a child who is always testing and pushing the limits, who, if not rebellious, is slightly testing the waters of rebellion. So women need to watch themselves and keep a yardstick away from the limits, and understand when they are sticking their toes in the waters, testing their husbands. After all, the scripture is so firm and clear "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." So how much of a sin is it then for a wife to 'test' her husband? Should we not be concerned about this? Either we are an example of the God - Man relationship or not. If so, this is a serious crime, as treason...

The danger with this, as women are all too quick to point out, is that men are not God and not perfect, and are often wrong. Which makes us women, as I will point out, less of God, less perfect, and more often wrong. It does not change scripture, or truth. In fact, if I can continue using the example of children, we expect good to come of their submission in spite of the fact that their parents are not perfect, do we not? Submission never hurts, yet rebellion even in small doses always causes some pain or other. So these should still be our guidelines I believe.

We are not responsible for our husband's wrongs, nor can we take credit for his rights! We can help him only by our submission and loyalty. Loyalty is one of those forgotten words...but submission is all about loyalty and the good of the whole family.

 

[seekHim1]

I am thankful for the posts here too. Deut30, You bring out the very good point that this is important to even the submissive Christian woman, that the temptation to take what power is available is very real. In fact, my eyes have been opened in that area, and I wonder, even, how much more there is for them to be opened to. Women are like children - they will take whatever leeway is given them and press for more when possible. But a child who learns to respect the boundaries and live and thrive within them does much better than a child who is always testing and pushing the limits, who, if not rebellious, is slightly testing the waters of rebellion. So women need to watch themselves and keep a yardstick away from the limits, and understand when they are sticking their toes in the waters, testing their husbands. After all, the scripture is so firm and clear "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." So how much of a sin is it then for a wife to 'test' her husband? Should we not be concerned about this? Either we are an example of the God - Man relationship or not. If so, this is a serious crime, as treason...

The danger with this, as women are all too quick to point out, is that men are not God and not perfect, and are often wrong. Which makes us women, as I will point out, less of God, less perfect, and more often wrong. It does not change scripture, or truth. In fact, if I can continue using the example of children, we expect good to come of their submission in spite of the fact that their parents are not perfect, do we not? Submission never hurts, yet rebellion even in small doses always causes some pain or other. So these should still be our guidelines I believe.

We are not responsible for our husband's wrongs, nor can we take credit for his rights! We can help him only by our submission and loyalty. Loyalty is one of those forgotten words...but submission is all about loyalty and the good of the whole family.

OUCH Beta! Holy cow has this post just pricked me to the core! I have learned so much from my children in various scenarios regarding childlike faith and humility, but I hadn't thought about being the child who pushes the limit in regards to a wife towards her husband. And the point that we are most likely more often wrong than our husbands...double OUCH! I know that all so applies to me...I just pray I get the lesson down and CUT IT OUT!!! Thanks so much for sharing...I appreciated yours and Deut30's post very much.

 

[cnystrom]

I also feel betrayed that there are so many godly men who ought to have discernment...and who know the inner workings of a man and should be able to figure out His design from the clues (men, please tell me if I'm wrong). Godly men, who have spiritual discernment, should realize that he owns his wife and his wife does not own him. He should be able to see through the cultural smog and realize that what his body says he needs from woman, whether he is married or not, and whether directed at his wife or not... are desires which are simply built-in to being a man...if I understand it correctly.

This is a very interesting thought. There ARE clues in the inner workings of a man. But sometimes it takes time to figure out. I never cheated on my wife, but never felt monogamous and from observation knew that other men felt the same way. I knew about polygamy in the Bible, but never put 2 and 2 together until I just started researching it one day. It was always just sort of a mystery. It all makes so much more sense now. I apologize for taking so long to figure it out.

The part about a man owning a woman and not vice versa I understood a lot earlier before polygamy. I mean that part is even in the traditional wedding ceremony: the father gives the bride to the husband not vice versa.

Chris

 

[cnystrom]

Beta said:

I'm not sure if there's even one thing I agree with them on.

"Equal pay for equal work" !!

You radical liberal you!

 

[Beta]

Chris,
Thanks for the male perspective on that. I was most curious and really appreciate your sharing it. Apology accepted, blessing returned. Again, not condemning anyone...it's the society that has raised boys and girls to grow up believing lies. It didn't happen overnight. But it was allowed and was fed and was continued until it took over and polygamy was actually made illegal. The fact that society would so approve something as 'righteous' as monogamy might have been a clue to us! Righteousness is not usually so defended in the political and governmental arena. Why with this? We were duped into the belief that our particular society had become more righteous and advanced than any before us.

Calling something a sin that is not a sin is just as bad as not calling something a sin that is one. Some women watch their husbands more than their husbands watch them. This brings a sense of (false) righteousness to them (I have every right, and God agrees with me) while unknowingly they are living in sin toward their husband. Men admittedly have no argument against something if they don't understand the truth. The 'doctrine' of monogamy is a 'doctrine of demons' put in place to put a whole society of people into confusion and unknown sins. This is why it's important for us to confess our unknown sins as well as those we know. This doctrine puts men in bondage they were never meant to have...if we can't enslave them one way, and they're gonna be a follower of Christ, then lets throw some chains in here and enslave them this way...

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." Galatians 5:1

For freedom...that's the only liberal you're gonna see in me brother

You are all admirably standing firm, and sometimes it's hard...like the big beast the LORD admired standing in the Nile when He was telling Job about it. The rushing crowds are going one way and you're standing there in the truth minding your own business...refusing to let the crowd pull you the wrong way. Jesus stood like that in the middle of the crowds...calm, cool and collected.

So I encourage you to keep standing there firmly - enjoy the scenery. The LORD may tell someone about you!

Beta