Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity By

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

measuring his time that he thinks about sex and the time that he thinks about Christ, His Word, and/or fulfilling Christ's Great Commission? It may be possible.

Different studies have told us different things about a man's sex drive. Some more accurate than others and some not accurate at all. In any case, for example:

The Kinsey Institute at Indiana University suggests that 54 per cent of men think about sex at least every day, 43 per cent think about it a few times a week or month, and 4 per cent once a month or less. All men are different, though; some, Waterman says, will think about sex many times daily

I have to ponder, what would it mean for the spiritual life of a man, his family, his spiritual family (church), and his community if he were to think about Christ and his command to fulfill the Great Commission in all of his spheres of life as much as he did about sexual fulfillment? What would it mean if a man were as consumed for the goal of making disciples as he was about sexual fulfillment (although creating children would indeed be one way to raise up disciples)? Would this show us for our own personal hearts how in love we are with Christ? I lean towards the idea that it may the more I think about it. If our drive for Christ, his word, and the Great Commission was near or equal or even above our sexual drives it seems like we would have a guage to go by. Of course, this is not in any way to suggest the sexual drive is unholy. It certainly is a holy desire, but just one holy desire among many. Or at least our goal is for it to be in balance to other desires that we have.

Regardless of if it can be "scientifically measured" I can not help but to think that if 54% of men thought about Christ, his Word, and a way to fulfill the Great Commission once every day, and 43% thought about Christ, his Word, and a way to fulfill it a few times a week that we might alter the life of our family, church, and community for the good. Surely it could not hurt and could only help.

Thoughts?

 

[welltan]

Re: Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity

Time used does not always indicate quality. Much of our daily life is spent eating, sleeping, TV, chatter, etc. I propose some of those activities be shortened to find time to meditate on God. The subject/desire of holy or righteous intimate relations is not something to shorten but to remain in focus as the vacuum will be filled by unholy considerations otherwise.
Not thinking about sex is probably actually just denying one is thinking about sex. The time freed up will be when a person eliminates the energy spent in conflict over pure and impure sexual desires. Then a resolved non-conflicted desire for pure sex is given to God and God, noticing the desire of a man readjusted to seaking the kingdom of God first is motivated to say as he did with Adam that it is not good that this man is alone.

 

[steve]

Re: Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity

Time used does not always indicate quality.

i agree
and, other than inserting a chip in our heads, there is no way to really be accurate about the number of times, time spent, etc.

pls allow me to be bratty; what if i spend lots of time thanking our Creator for creating sex :!:
yeah, i know, not getting much soul-winning done that way

it is very true, though, that what we spend our time thinking about shows where our heart is
............... ah, never mind, i ain't agonna ask

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

Re: Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity

Well praising the Lord for his wonderful creation is certainly a spiritual act!

I'm thinking more along the general lines of a man being able to weigh it in his own heart and spirit and then seeing the results of it in his family, community and beyond.

And agreeing with Welltan if these are true and quality thoughts (which is a must for the heart to be right), that's kinda of what I'm pondering.

I wonder what good things might come if a man were to check his own heart and find that he is lacking in other spiritual disciplines and then he began to pray: "Lord give me as strong of a passion for lost souls and for the word and for you as I have for sexual fulfillment." I wonder if a man were able to use that as his guide if it would radically alter his ability to judge how balanced he is in the faith?

Steve your point about being able to tell where a man's heart is the line of thinking I am pondering; kinda like when Christ said where a man's heart is there shall also be his treasure. To me it seems as if there might be a correlation between our natural God-given desires (food, sex, etc) to our new desires in the Lord as we walk in the Spirit. If our natural desire for sex outweighs (dominates/crowds out) our desire for other spiritual disciplines then it might be a sign we need revival in our own hearts or that we are not in spiritual balance and in step with the Spirit.

I know when I listen to Welltan talk he loves to go study the word and dig deep into it. That is a passion and quality of his heart coming forth in his spiritual endeavors. Many of us have testified to our love for study of the Word etc.

So that's kinda the thoughts I am pondering. If a man were to ask God to give him the same amount of drive for the study of the Word, and the seeking of fulfilling the great commision as he naturally has for sexual fulfillment would that not be a good prayer and good spiritual goal to help him achieve balance in his life and if he did that would it be a good aid to his walk and ministry before the Lord? Would it not also help him see if his natural desires are dominating him? I know Welltan also wrote on gluttony as well. Would this concept fall in line with one fasting? If a man's love for the Word and prayer drove him fast to be a display that the physical body should not dominate control us would not his also be kind of like one checking his own heart to see what natural desires are there and if he has as strong of a passion for the Word, the Great Commission etc as he has as a sex drive? (ANY BY NO MEANS AM I SUGGESTING A NATURAL SEX DRIVE IS UNHOLY; NOT MY POINT AT ALL; IT IS HOLY AND THUS MAYBE THAT IS A GOOD GUAGE FOR OTHER HOLY DESIRES TO BE COMPARED TO TO SEE IF ONE IS IN BALANCE)

But then of course it may be hard to even judge ourselves. But then again, maybe it is not if we are able to feel and judge our own impulses and passions as to what drives us.

It makes me wonder at the least if this would be a good thermometer so to speak for a person to evaluate his own heart.

 

[sadanyagci]

Re: Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity

The time of my life when I was married, when affection and sex took up a good portion of each and every day... was also the time in my life when "pray without ceasing" was fulfilled the most. Sex, sexual desires, or lack there of are about as good a deciding factor on spirituality as the amount of food a man can put away.

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

Re: Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity

Very interesting thoughts there.

So do you think it would be good for a man to pray: "Lord give me as strong of a drive for your word and the great commission as I have for natural sexual fulfillment?" Would that be a good prayer for a man to be praying?

 

[CecilW]

Re: Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity

what if i spend lots of time thanking our Creator for creating sex?

Works for me.

Since we're BOTH spiritual AND physical beings, would that constitute BALANCED maturity?

 

[sadanyagci]

Re: Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity

Very interesting thoughts there.

So do you think it would be good for a man to pray: "Lord give me as strong of a drive for your word and the great commission as I have for natural sexual fulfillment?" Would that be a good prayer for a man to be praying?

Go right ahead. Though replace sexual fulfillment with eating and drinking. I think that makes for a better prayer, more fitting to pretty much every human on earth, I believe. Where sexual desire is low, will for food and water are still high.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

Re: Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity

If you went to a good graduate school, you would start questioning if you can scientifically measure many physical things that people blindly think you can and believe the numbers other scientists gave just because they are "scientists" (especially in biological, and engineering situations.)

How much more trouble would a "scientist" have using experimental science to measure spiritual things.

Why perhaps first you would have to define spiritual things, in a way that can be measured physically. This is not an easy task for any human I know of (except Jesus), of course I think Jesus did not use experimental science as his primary method to knowledge of people's thoughts and attitudes.

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

Re: Can We Scientifically Measure a Man's Spiritual Maturity

Sadanyagci,

Interesting, I think your points about food and water would work just as well.

After all Jesus did say: "you cannot live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God" (Matt. 4:4)

Maybe any of these natural desires are good standards for a man to use to judge his own spiritual state. If a man loves food, water, and sexual pleasures more than the Word and more than the work of the Lord then maybe he needs to pray for the Spirit to give unto him a passion as strong (or even stronger) as those other natural desires.

Hummmmmm...... :idea: ....if such a standard were used in one's own life it might tell much about where the heart is.

Of course, the time and quality factor might still make it hard to judge with accuracy. Still pondering.......