Meat Common Misconceptions and Mistranslation Issues

[frederick]

Don't you see how dangerous it is to be calling something scripture and then proceeding to correct it every time you see something in it that doesn't suit your fancy (Proverbs 30:5,6). To you scripture is a pile of lost pieces of paper you've never seen,read,or heard preached a day in your life

The question also goes the other way; Don't you see how dangerous it is to be calling something scripture that needs the translation corrected every time it is at odds with the original languages? What is scripture to you? Is it a translation that has had the language updated and modernised several times?

 

[Off-gridinwv]

The question also goes the other way; Don't you see how dangerous it is to be calling something scripture that needs the translation corrected every time it is at odds with the original languages? What is scripture to you? Is it a translation that has had the language updated and modernised several

The question also goes the other way; Don't you see how dangerous it is to be calling something scripture that needs the translation corrected every time it is at odds with the original languages? What is scripture to you? Is it a translation that has had the language updated and modernised several times?

Would God keep His Word locked up in a dead language or can He speak other languages too

 

[frederick]

Would God keep His Word locked up in a dead language or can He speak other languages too

My Greek friends read and speak the Greek language extremely well and I learnt a lot from them. When I was in Israel I heard a lot of Hebrew spoken and noticed a lot of Hebrew writing as I travelled. Hardly dead languages!

 

[NickF]

Alrighty, lads! I know I've been radio silent for a while but its about time I posted another shot at our modern translations.

Matthew 25 -- parable of the ten virgins. In verse ten, the word translated "wedding", "marriage", or "wedding feast" -- gamoi -- is actually in the plural, making it actually "weddings", "wedding feasts", or "marriages.

Since this is bibfam, I don't need to explain why that's an important difference, but I will at least point out that this subtle change definitely lends to the whole "no no, Luke, those are bridesmaids, not brides" notion that so many people seem to take.

γάμους the accusative plural form of γάμος (gamos). Excellent work! This is the nail in the coffin of monogamy onlyism.

There are multiple SOLID references to God having multiple brides in the OT. And now a wonderful reference to Jesus having at least 5 in the NT. And a distinctive plural form of the word, not able to be construed any other way. I'm rejoicing!

 

[Luke S]

γάμους the accusative plural form of γάμος (gamos). Excellent work! This is the nail in the coffin of monogamy onlyism.

There are multiple SOLID references to God having multiple brides in the OT. And now a wonderful reference to Jesus having at least 5 in the NT. And a distinctive plural form of the word, not able to be construed any other way. I'm rejoicing!

Oh do look at Matthew 22 as well! The word is used in singular and plural there, do dig into each use of it -- but do look at verse 2, to start!

‘The reign of the heavens was likened to a man, a king, who made marriage-feasts for his son,
Matthew 22:2

 

[Luke S]

Don't you see how dangerous it is to be calling something scripture and then proceeding to correct it every time you see something in it that doesn't suit your fancy (Proverbs 30:5,6). To you scripture is a pile of lost pieces of paper you've never seen,read,or heard preached a day in your life

I spent my entire life being taught that Scripture said things that it didn't. Im done eating it all up with a spoon. I'm not correcting Scripture, I'm correcting false teachings so we can better understand what Scripture says.

 

[frederick]

Oh do look at Matthew 22 as well! The word is used in singular and plural there, do dig into each use of it -- but do look at verse 2, to start!

‘The reign of the heavens was likened to a man, a king, who made marriage-feasts for his son,
Matthew 22:2

Excellent observations.

 

[Frank S]

Alrighty, lads! I know I've been radio silent for a while but its about time I posted another shot at our modern translations.

Matthew 25 -- parable of the ten virgins. In verse ten, the word translated "wedding", "marriage", or "wedding feast" -- gamoi -- is actually in the plural, making it actually "weddings", "wedding feasts", or "marriages.

Since this is bibfam, I don't need to explain why that's an important difference, but I will at least point out that this subtle change definitely lends to the whole "no no, Luke, those are bridesmaids, not brides" notion that so many people seem to take.

@Luke S You made a very good catch on that.
Wycliffe in his 1385 New Testament translation is one of few translators who translated it correctly. I'll include the whole passage about the virgins here, but notice how he has weddings (plural) in verse 10:


Mat 25:1 Thanne the kyngdoom of heuenes schal be lijk to ten virgyns, whiche token her laumpis, and wenten out ayens the hosebonde and the wijf;
Mat 25:2 and fyue of hem weren foolis, and fyue prudent.
Mat 25:3 But the fyue foolis token her laumpis, and token not oile with hem;
Mat 25:4 but the prudent token oile in her vessels with the laumpis.
Mat 25:5 And whilis the hosebonde tariede, alle thei nappiden and slepten.
Mat 25:6 But at mydnyyt a cryy was maad, Lo! the spouse cometh, go ye oute to mete with him.
Mat 25:7 Thanne alle tho virgyns risen vp, and araieden her laumpis.
Mat 25:8 And the foolis seiden to the wise, Yyue ye to vs of youre oile, for oure laumpis ben quenchid.
Mat 25:9 The prudent answeriden, and seiden, Lest perauenture it suffice not to vs and to you, go ye rather to men that sellen, and bie to you.
Mat 25:10 And while thei wenten for to bie, the spouse cam; and tho that weren redi, entreden with him to the weddyngis; and the yate was schit.
Mat 25:11 And at the last the othere virgyns camen, and seiden, Lord, lord, opene to vs.
Mat 25:12 And he answeride, and seide, Treuli Y seie to you, Y knowe you not.
Mat 25:13 Therfor wake ye, for ye witen not the dai ne the our.

 

[frederick]

@Luke S You made a very good catch on that.
Wycliffe in his 1385 New Testament translation is one of few translators who translated it correctly. I'll include the whole passage about the virgins here, but notice how he has weddings (plural) in verse 10:


Mat 25:1 Thanne the kyngdoom of heuenes schal be lijk to ten virgyns, whiche token her laumpis, and wenten out ayens the hosebonde and the wijf;
Mat 25:2 and fyue of hem weren foolis, and fyue prudent.
Mat 25:3 But the fyue foolis token her laumpis, and token not oile with hem;
Mat 25:4 but the prudent token oile in her vessels with the laumpis.
Mat 25:5 And whilis the hosebonde tariede, alle thei nappiden and slepten.
Mat 25:6 But at mydnyyt a cryy was maad, Lo! the spouse cometh, go ye oute to mete with him.
Mat 25:7 Thanne alle tho virgyns risen vp, and araieden her laumpis.
Mat 25:8 And the foolis seiden to the wise, Yyue ye to vs of youre oile, for oure laumpis ben quenchid.
Mat 25:9 The prudent answeriden, and seiden, Lest perauenture it suffice not to vs and to you, go ye rather to men that sellen, and bie to you.
Mat 25:10 And while thei wenten for to bie, the spouse cam; and tho that weren redi, entreden with him to the weddyngis; and the yate was schit.
Mat 25:11 And at the last the othere virgyns camen, and seiden, Lord, lord, opene to vs.
Mat 25:12 And he answeride, and seide, Treuli Y seie to you, Y knowe you not.
Mat 25:13 Therfor wake ye, for ye witen not the dai ne the our.

I just did a search in the New Testament for singular and plural usages of the word. I'm surprised to see most English translations make no differentiation and translate in the singular! Incredible and sad at the same time.

 

[James Pease]

I just did a search in the New Testament for singular and plural usages of the word. I'm surprised to see most English translations make no differentiation and translate in the singular! Incredible and sad at the same time.

Go YLT!

 

[Frank S]

I just did a search in the New Testament for singular and plural usages of the word. I'm surprised to see most English translations make no differentiation and translate in the singular! Incredible and sad at the same time.

I just checked the Wycliffe Bible edition updated by Terence P. Noble in 2001- he left it like Wycliffe's original. Kudos to him.

Matthew 25:10
And while they went to buy, the spouse came; and those that were ready, entered [in] with him to the weddings; and the gate was shut.

 

[ABlessedMan]

I'm sorry I'm way of the thread here. Going back to 1 Sam 1:6. I'm not sure that "adversary" is the best translation, but I did a bit of digging. Here is the verse for context:

And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb.
(1Sa 1:6 KJV)

וְכִֽעֲסַ֤תָּה צָֽרָתָהּ֙ גַּם־כַּ֔עַס בַּעֲב֖וּר הַרְּעִמָ֑הּ כִּֽי־סָגַ֥ר יְהוָ֖ה בְּעַ֥ד רַחְמָֽהּ׃ (1Sa 1:6 WTT)

The word in question is צָֽרָתָהּ֙. It is not the word most frequently used for "narrow" and also as "distress." It is a feminine form seemingly derived from this word. It may be a homonym. The actual word "Tsara" is etymologically related to a number of cognate languages:
Akkadian. serretu second wife, rival wife
Syriac arrato and Arabic Tsarrat both mean co-wife

So, why not translate the word with "co-wife" or "second wife" instead of rival? Probably because it says "she vexed her." (x2). Interesting to note, this word for "vexed" (Ka'as) is a favorite for describing how Israel vexed the LORD, so the word may have some dimension of "vexing someone higher." Therefore, it seems pretty clear that Peninnah (2nd wife) is in the wrong. While the word does not mean "rival," Peninnah does seem to be acting like one.

 

[frederick]

I just checked the Wycliffe Bible edition updated by Terence P. Noble in 2001- he left it like Wycliffe's original. Kudos to him.

Matthew 25:10
And while they went to buy, the spouse came; and those that were ready, entered [in] with him to the weddings; and the gate was shut.

Excellent. I had a look through the popular English translations so thanks for pointing this one out.