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Concubinage

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"If a husband loves the "concubine" the same as his wife and treats her the same, why can't she simply be referred to as his "WIFE" ?"

I started another topic hoping to discuss something of this nature in depth but it didn't go very far...with Jesus making this statement:

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

I began to wonder if taking a divorced woman as a concubine would NOT violate this. Perhaps this was one of the reasons for taking a woman as a "concubine" rather than a "wife".
 
WOW!! Still trying to read through 5 pages of posts that have been posted in two days. But just wanted to throw something in here real quick:

Someone had a great explanation one time and I forgot who it was. Basically a wife came into the relationship/marriage with everything that you read about. The dowry, the bride price, etc. But a concubine was someone who didn't come into the marriage with all that. Most likely the concubine came from a slave/servant life and wouldn't have had the dowry to put up for the marriage. So that would most likely be the reason that Shelomoh (Solomon) had 700 wives and 300 concubines. It's CLEARLY OBVIOUS that after 700 wives he wouldn't have needed anyone else for sex. Good heavens, they didn't even have viagra back then. But realize that a lot of times kings would marry women from other countries as a type of peace agreement or accord. That would make the rulers of different countries as being family and you don't attack family.

So with that being said, there really isn't a need for the term concubine in today's day and culture. We don't have differing classes of people. Well, except for those who are intelligent, like me, and those who disagree with me (i.e. the un-intelligent). lol, :D
 
Scarecrow said:
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

I began to wonder if taking a divorced woman as a concubine would NOT violate this. Perhaps this was one of the reasons for taking a woman as a "concubine" rather than a "wife".

If the woman didn't have Biblical grounds for the divorce then making her your "concubine" would also be adultery (if you planned on sleeping w/ her). If she did have Biblical grounds for the divorce, then simply marry her and make her your wife.
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Duke, simple and to the point. Let us throw that term out altogether for today's women and put it back into the history books! :D

The Duke Of Marshall said:
So with that being said, there really isn't a need for the term concubine in today's day and culture. We don't have differing classes of people. Well, except for those who are intelligent, like me, and those who disagree with me (i.e. the un-intelligent). lol, :D

You are intelligent but also blessed with common sense and a "get to the point" attitude! Must be the Marine Corps that gave you that ability! :D

Thanks!
 
Lysistrata said:
Let us throw that term out altogether for today's women and put it back into the history books! :D

I wholeheartedly concur !!! :D
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
a post that i made back in my youth :D
i think that it speaks for itself
why do i seem to be a nut about........?
by steve » Sun May 31, 2009 8:41 am

why do i seem to be a nut about concubinage and various degrees of marriage?
because we have been given a deeper understanding of marriage and i feel that we are to be the ambassadors bringing this truth out. being the ambassadors, we have to know what we are talking about. we need to know it inside-out. we have to own it, understand its nuances and its peripheral relationships.
poly is not just about having more than one wife. we know how to marry a good christian girl, but what rav posted about rescuing the slave girl, wow. i had always wondered about how a couple would bring in a girl rescued from a lifestyle that was problematic. it did not seem that having her live clean on her own until she had "proven" herself was going to give her the loving encouragement and support that a fam would. she would need shelter from the emotions and feelings that she would have. but to marry her and commit to her "until death do us part"? are you possibly committing the fam to a neverending war with the enemy as she doesn't take hold of the tools and support given her and does not grow out of her past?
what about from her point of view? could she be expected to commit the rest of her life to an alien family style with a patriarch for a husband who has the responsibility to make the final descision on so many things? could living a deeply committed christian lifestyle get really old in a short while and she would miss out on all of the fun in life? could she really be sure that this was the right thing?
this is one of the situations where i could see that a marriage of, say, one year might be a good idea. the hope would be that it would work out and then everyone would want to commit to the "full meal deal" marriage. kind of " marriage light" as a precurser to the full deal. or maybe it wouldn't work so well but everyone would want to re-up for another year as they work the kinks out. or maybe all would realize that it just was not going to be a good fit and walk away (temporarily?).
please understand that i am not in favor of a marriage that is at all less than what marriage was designed to fully be. but because of the various non-perfect situations that we humans find ourselves and each other in, a partial or trial marriage may be the stepping stone to a relationship that YHWH could be proud of. whereas the normal all-or-nothing approach might end in failure giving the enemy something to be proud of.
one other situation that i could think of would be where a girl is concerned about whether the man is too controlling. a good question, no amount of measurement or promises or even interviewing his other wife/wives can tell her what it will be like for her personality. rather than walk away from a potentially blessed relationship because of a reasonable fear of committing to the wrong person for the rest of her life, do a trial marriage (concubine marriage) for a period of time.
again let me repeat that i want the fullest possible relationship with each one and will not be satisfied with less than the circumstances will allow.
another thing that i want to mention is that in is. 4:1 the women are asking for a concubine relationship. they promise to provide their own bread and clothing, something that the family working as a unit under the responsibility of the husband is expected to provide. i believe that he is already married to as many as he can afford to support and that is why they are only seeking a concubine relationship.
friends, we must mine all of the understanding of marriage so that we can discuss all of it with something that resembles intelligence when others scratch their heads and ask off-the-wall questions about things peripheral to the subject.
everything of course must be done as YHWH leads us. i am just advocating that we not be closed-minded to anything other than the all-or-nothing approach.
people were not drawn to Yeshua because of who he claimed to be, but because he had knowledge and understanding that he was willing to share. i want to be like him when i grow up
 
The Duke Of Marshall said:
there really isn't a need for the term concubine in today's day and culture. We don't have differing classes of people. Well, except for those who are intelligent, like me, and those who disagree with me (i.e. the un-intelligent). lol, :D

Some of our households are blessed with a third class of people. You included. Don't forget 'em, or their feelings will be hurt. They're extra hirsute and lack opposable thumbs. but make up for their challenges by the enthusiasm with which they greet us upon our arrival. Alarming degrees of tail-wagging are involved. Ours is named Harley, and you will NOT convince him that he's not a person and a valued member of the family.

Having said THAT, I too can do without the term concubinage. Whatever it is, ... *shrug* Any woman who shares my bed is my treasured WIFE. And I'll fight anyone who says otherwise! Cowpies at 3 paces!

Btw, in response to the current related thread ... I have, in my life, married both a Virgin of Israel and a Divorced Woman. The Virgin of Israel left in a huff and has been gone 11 years over the possibility that another might someday join our family. The Divorced Woman and I are getting along despite ups and downs, and are prepared to open our hearts to another.

However, the answer is NO! I can't take a Divorced Woman as a CONCUBINE. I can, however, take one of my Father's daughters (regardless of how someone else has labelled her) as my WIFE! There's always room to expand our hearts!
 
"Btw, in response to the current related thread"

It would have been nice to read this on the other thread...but...

What spurred my question was the thought of the possibility that being a concubine rather than a wife might somehow change the circumstances of a situation that would otherwise be sinful. I was hoping for constructive input and opinions regarding the possibilities which to a limited degree still exist.

Without knowing for sure what the exact circumstances and situations were in biblical times when a woman was taken as a concubine all we can do is take an educated guess. What we do have indicates that different cultures treated concubines in different ways. I am assuming that in our discussions we are trying to stay as close to biblical concubinage as possible and so I have been trying to see things from that perspective.

These links may be of interest to some...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilegesh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage
 
We're finally locking this thread around concubinage. I think it's beat silly, if not completely dead - if you could kill what is already dead, for practical purposes. We've seen how it makes women feel, and honestly, we don't see any need for this term today.
Please remember the primary purpose for the public forums: offering help and support for those considering the issue for plural marriage from a Biblical perspective. Practical help.

Thanks! Nathan
 
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