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Deut 24:1 When takes a man a woman...

I had a look at a few HALOT pages on Amazon but I don't know Hebrew letters. Do any of the web sites or programs you have mentioned allow for HALOT to be referenced with Strong's numbers?
The programs link it all behind the scenes so you can be reading along, see a weird word, double click or something like that, and they pull up the references from HALOT. Logos even makes it possible to reference original language lexicons while reading English versions of the text if you have one of the "reverse-interlinear" libraries as part of your package and a supported English translation. This makes it so you can do nifty things like run your mouse over a word in English and see the parallel window highlight the hebrew word and vice versa.

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for their comments - I just bought an old HALOT off ebay which won't turn up for about five weeks (surface mail). With my prowess at languages, that may just about be enough time for me to learn the Hebrew alphabet...
Hey that's great. The print versions of HALOT do *not* list strongs numbers; you can pick up some Gesenius versions which do that. You can learn the alphabet for sure in that time. It will start slow at first but over time it will become very natural to be flipping through looking up stuff.
I'm a fan of the old school printed book lexicon method because something happens while you're looking up a word. You find yourself repeating it many times, thinking about it while you're searching for it. This helps a bit with remembering it later. That part of the process is lost if you just click a word in a program and see the definition. Also you can come across some additional interesting words above or bellow that word which are related. Let us know how you find HALOT after you get it.
 
If anyone reading this decides they want to learn Biblical Hebrew but they've been scared away by mammoth Grammar books like Gesenius Grammar (not lexicon, diff. book) or Joun's Grammar or Waltke's Hebrew syntax.

There is a nice book which trims out all the fancy parts of grammar and focuses on the guts of it. Much of the grammar you can pick up by instinct as you read along without thinking about those things; especially since the Bible should already be familiar material. The text is called A Practical Grammar for Classical Hebrew, by Jacob Weingreen, Oxford Press. Weingreen introduces a topic, like the definite article, explains the most common rules and perhaps just 1 exception, then presents a series of excercises to do as homework translating from Hebrew into English and English into Hebrew. Each chapter introduces new vocabulary. The translation work is biblical in theme but Weingreen often swaps out words from the biblical text for words which the students have learned already so it's more fun. It's a bit older, i.e. not computerized so if you have bad eyes you may not appreciate the Hebrew fonts. If you want to know the Holy Tongue, out of all the texts I've seen this one really is best for the non-specialist. It'll get you where you want to go and you'll be reading.
The only downside, which may be a plus side, is how he teaches pronunciation. He uses the ancient pronunciation so for example "vav" he teaches to pronounce as "w". It's more common to teach modern Israeli pronounciation these days aka "Sephardic" pronounciation. So I recommend anyone going this route to learn the letters just online, wikipedia or something, then skip those sections from Weingreen.

shalom
 
The print versions of HALOT do *not* list strongs numbers;

Mine is going to have some... :)

I have an old "Teach Yourself Hebrew" book for starters, (looks considerably smaller than Weingreen. I promise I'll watch out for "w"s - it seems to have them) and I need to understand all Gesenius' grammar notes. Also Young's concordance notes, which I know many prefer to Strong's. After that, my HALOT should turn up. then we'll see. But to be honest, chances are that my next purchase would more likely be a click-through program. Unfortunately, my pronunciation will not be a problem, unless I end up like a guy I used to know who who for some years lived next door to a Rabbi. He called his house "Ha Tikvah" (The Hope) and by this strategy he managed to divert a number of the Rabbi's intended visitors to his own front door, and so over the years entertained a number of Jews who he would not otherwise have had the opportunity to meet.

I tried to learn Greek, and just about when I was about to give up, the lecturer told us that if we had learned Hebrew instead trying to learn Greek, we would have been reading the OT by that stage - I remember thinking that he might have mentioned that earlier. I would definitely have been more interested in some Bible topics than Greek battles. Anyway I will see how the Hebrew goes.

Thank you very much indeed for all your recommendations.

shalom
 
Mine is going to have some... :)

I have an old "Teach Yourself Hebrew" book for starters, (looks considerably smaller than Weingreen. I promise I'll watch out for "w"s - it seems to have them) and I need to understand all Gesenius' grammar notes. Also Young's concordance notes, which I know many prefer to Strong's. After that, my HALOT should turn up. then we'll see. But to be honest, chances are that my next purchase would more likely be a click-through program. Unfortunately, my pronunciation will not be a problem, unless I end up like a guy I used to know who who for some years lived next door to a Rabbi. He called his house "Ha Tikvah" (The Hope) and by this strategy he managed to divert a number of the Rabbi's intended visitors to his own front door, and so over the years entertained a number of Jews who he would not otherwise have had the opportunity to meet.

I tried to learn Greek, and just about when I was about to give up, the lecturer told us that if we had learned Hebrew instead trying to learn Greek, we would have been reading the OT by that stage - I remember thinking that he might have mentioned that earlier. I would definitely have been more interested in some Bible topics than Greek battles. Anyway I will see how the Hebrew goes.

Thank you very much indeed for all your recommendations.

shalom
Hey that's great you have a book already.
Funny story with "Ha Tikvah" very clever. That's also the name of the Israeli national anthem.
Well in my opinion, if one picks a single phase of Biblical Hebrew to master, like the 5 books of Moses, and you compared the effort needed to master most of that grammar to what is necessary to master the grammar of the New Testament Greek; I agree. Greek grammar will be harder.
On the flip side, if one's goal is to master all the phases of Biblical Hebrew's grammar (ignoring the Aramaic sections of the OT), including Psalms and wisdom literature (Proverbs, Job, Ecclesiastes, etc) then I think the Hebrew would take more time. It's just that the New Testament, fortunately, was written in such a fast snapshot of time (several decades) vs an eon+ to write the OT in entirety. There's just so many strange things that happen: Phoenician 3rd person suffixes which look like Hebrew 1st person suffixes that show up in wisdom literature confusing people with changes from 3rd to 1st person, "Old" Canaanite (meaning it was Old at that time) forms showing up in poetry with what looks like feminine 3rd person endings to Hebrew verbs when really they were masculine endings in old Canaanite [qatala forms], Aramaic influences to Hebrew grammar from the time in captivity, old Accusative / Genitive / Dative forms left over from "Ancient" Hebrew which pop up sometimes used correctly, sometimes incorrectly understood by the authors themselves who seem to be trying to sound "archaic" with their poetry, "double duty" suffixes where one word in a sentence will have a suffix "yours" "Mine" etc. and the writer poetically intended to apply it to another word in the sentence as well, etc.
In addition we have Israelite and Judean dialects as well as Ugaritic forms creeping their influence in.

I'm not trying to scare you, I'm just commenting on the "which grammar is harder Hebrew or Greek".
I think to generalize it's safe to say Greek grammar is "harder" for people who have never studied a language with case endings (Latin, German, Slovik languages, Finnish, Hungarian, etc...) because that's a huge concept hurdle for English speakers to get over. Syntax is harder in Hebrew in my opinion when you take the entire OT into context. As far as vocabulary goes, with Greek an English speaker starts off with a huge vocabulary they often didn't know they have. kardia (heart) derma (skin) sofia (wisdom) philo (friend/love) i.e. philosophy, etc.
There's just a huge amount of influence on English from Greek so we are blessed with hundreds of cognates we can leverage for learning words. With Hebrew, not so much so. Also Hebrew words are usually much shorter which doesn't always lend itself to certain memory tricks.
That said, with Hebrew, after you learn the grammar for verbal forms for example, you can often explode your vocabulary by learning 1 root meaning of a simple verb. Then when you see one of the 6 other verbal forms, you apply your grammar rules and can often extrapolate a meaning. So in essence, you often can get 7+ words learned for the price of 1!!!
There's some such trickery in Greek too but it's not nearly as reliable or predictable as with Hebrew.

Hebrew, however, is definitely much easier to break into in my opinion. You can study for a year and find yourself reading large chunks of the Exodus story; it's really quite wonderful. To pray in Hebrew is a great feeling; I've prayed in Greek before (was in the zone) and it didn't feel as amazing as praying in the lāšōn hakōdeš (holy tongue).

OK sorry if I got rambling; I love it when folks learn Hebrew.
One last thing I usually encourage people to think about which book(s) of the OT are their favorite; i.e. which would they most enjoy reading in Hebrew. Then, instead of the usual drudgery of learning all the words that occur more than X times in the entire bible, etc. I have them focus on the book(s) they want to master.
Even if it's just a single Psalm there is something very empowering about being able to read that 1 psalm with understanding or that 1 chapter from exodus with understanding.

shalom
 
A lot of meaty stuff there. Some of the underlying problems were summed up rather nicely to me by the real meaning of
"He kicked the bucket and now he's pushing up daisies."
You wouldn't expect to get to the truth of that one with a pocket-sized Chinese-English dictionary, and that sort of example illustrates the problem with Strong's or any basic grammar. What we learn first is going to tend to be superficial. Rightly dividing words at at a deep level is very challenging even if it isn't scary.

I see my language journey more as getting to base camp rather than an assault on the summit. (and that would be the start anyway). I really don't have the memory to excel at language. Trying to learn Welsh at the same time as French was purgatory at school (both Gaelic languages and a lot of similarities). To know the problems that translators faced such as 1st/3rd person is really helpful - the next time I can't make out whether it is G-d or his prophet speaking, I will bear that possibility in mind, and that might warrant a day-trip from base camp while others are attacking the summit.

Some of those I know who I think have got closer to the summit than I will would fall back to Hebrew-Greek references as you recently did elsewhere with the al-epi connection, rather than the usual meaning of epi.

My picks for starters?
Psalm 23, because it's popular, short, and yet incredibly deep (because it introduces so many titles of G-d - more day-trip excursions) sounds like a strong candidate.
Genesis particularly seems ideal - more day-trips along the paths of the themes that start in Eden and continue all the way to Revelation. But Ruth might be a better length as an intermediate step.


But if Strong's work suffers from his trying to impose his orthodox Christian beliefs into meanings, what backgrounds do Weingreen, and HALOT "Authors: Walter Bauer, L. Koehler, W. Baumgartner, M. E. J. Richardson, J. J. Stamm" bring to the table?
 
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