Is it right for a father to take action and try to teach his daughter the importance of womanhood if the wife does it poorly? Is this a job that only another woman can take on? Or can a father be up to the task of making a girl into a woman?
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Distant mother
- Thread starter Leaderofthehome
- Start date
Sounds like your wife needs more encouragement and support to "do womanhood" better - or possibly she already does it well but your expectations are too high.
Can you define what you expect to see of your daughter as a woman?
The buck stops with the father, he needs to do what is necessary to train up the next generation. But practically speaking how much he can do to overcome the bad example of a mother I cannot say.
This too. Though there will be cases that can't be helped.
This too. Though there will be cases that can't be helped.
I don’t know about you, @Leaderofthehome , but many of us, myself included, came to the understanding of patriarchy too late to bend the twig in the direction that it should have grown. Or worse, we fathered children with mothers that didn’t, cannot, and will not embrace the truths that we now hold dear.
Your cryptic questions give us no useful backstory from which to formulate a helpful answer.
Your cryptic questions give us no useful backstory from which to formulate a helpful answer.
A husband oversees the family. He often has to help (esp. in our culture) a wife understand and properly function as a woman. He should also be active in the process of raising his daughters. there are things a girl needs to know about men that a woman will never know unless a man (ideally a father in some areas and a husband in others) teaches an guides her. If a woman has been neglected in her teaching by her father it places an even greater burden on her husband.
Then let me shed light on what I'm referring to, I try not to air my dirty laundry if I can help it. My wife has slowly been allowing our 17 year old daughter to dress provocatively, black tights for pants, short shorts. Articles of clothing no self respecting young woman should wear, she doesn't do it often but she does do it with my wife's blessing. I want her to make the right decisions because shes thinks it is right but I also know shes young and needs a helping hand. I feel as though my wife has failed on her end of parenting our child, pushing our girl towards a life of decay. I don't know how to express my disapproval without overwhelming my wife's feelings. Hopefully that makes a bit more sense.
Just be the man (in Love). Lead and be a King not a dictator. Be a husband, be firm with gentleness and meekness, but not weakness. As the head you have the right to set the tone and standard of the house.
She does want for a Godly life, she knows that her mother and I are polygamous.(we aren't practicing, another potential wife has never come into the picture) my daughter has lots of hobbies, friends, great grades and enjoys discussing scripture. But shes exhibiting some 'feminist' behaviours, shes letting herself become a little too career oriented. Talks back to me when I ask her to do something. Its nothing huge but I would like to nip it in the bud so I know shes happy.
What kind of example does your wife set for your daughter in regard to talking or answering back? This might be something you need to first deal with the example that is being set(?) Just a thought as a mother's/wife's example will bear fruit in the life of the daughter in the way she responds to a father - and in the future - her own husband. shalom
Her mother doesn't talk back to me but I do have a bad habit of having a conversation with her mother as equals instead of husband and wife. But a child is a child, I've only ever physcially disciplined her once for something unspeakable. She knows right from wrong, shes not actively trying to upset me but I can't have her keep challenging me
This is a hard thing. I have copious amounts of teenage girls and I understand the fear of driving them away.
You have to articulate your standard though. There will be some eye rolling and verbal protestations but being clear, calm and firm will go a very long way. Just remember that the Biblical standard for modesty is subjective. There are few hard rules.
If I could answer your question (if not your precise situation) I think that a father should be involved in teaching his daughter to be modest and reverent and whatever else is needed, even if his wife is doing a great job of it. In the same way I expect my wife to be involved in raising my sons to be stand-up guys, even though (like everything else I do) my performance is unimpeachable...
At the end of the day, I set what is proper and what is not for all of my children, and I expect that my wife reinforces my teachings while I'm slaving away for the man trying to feed mouths. I'm rusty on acting ladylike, but I'm not shy about telling my own daughter to sit like a lady.
In your specific situation.... I would say that most of your opportunities to significantly change the kind of woman your daughter is becoming are in the past. She's pretty much become the woman that she is. (Not saying you don't have every right to make demands about behavior, patriarchal chest thumps all around) but I think most of how she will be depends mostly on how she's already been raised.
At the end of the day, I set what is proper and what is not for all of my children, and I expect that my wife reinforces my teachings while I'm slaving away for the man trying to feed mouths. I'm rusty on acting ladylike, but I'm not shy about telling my own daughter to sit like a lady.
In your specific situation.... I would say that most of your opportunities to significantly change the kind of woman your daughter is becoming are in the past. She's pretty much become the woman that she is. (Not saying you don't have every right to make demands about behavior, patriarchal chest thumps all around) but I think most of how she will be depends mostly on how she's already been raised.
Yes. Those early years are so important yet God will transform those who are His. That's a joy to see happening in our own lives and as parents in the lives of our kids as they mature in Christ.
What we told our daughter about those modern clothing trends was basically that you "bait a hook" differently depending on what you're trying to catch, and that those modern and provocative styles send a message. We said she would be far better off dressing old fashioned and modest, and perhaps getting passed over by the kind of man looking for a modern "woman of the world," then to wear those modern styles and be passed over by an old fashioned man looking for a WIFE because he mistook you for a modern gal.
I do believe she agreed with us, though her dad has still had occasions where he would look with a man's eyes at what she was wearing and tell her "I don't want you wearing that." She appreciates him telling her how it looks, and while she is sometimes suprised at what dad doesn't "like" there really is no argument. What she wears at home can be stretchy, or tight, etc.....but what she wears in public is not.
Some girls are ignorant of the way their choices affect men, some are NOT ignorant and like teasing and tormenting the oposite sex.
I think too many girls these days have allowed modesty to be completely destroyed for all practical purposes. I see too often no real difference in dress standards between girls claiming faith, and those without.
But like the men said above....what a girl doesn't learn from a father she may still learn from a husband.
*shrugs* Just my two cents worth.
I do believe she agreed with us, though her dad has still had occasions where he would look with a man's eyes at what she was wearing and tell her "I don't want you wearing that." She appreciates him telling her how it looks, and while she is sometimes suprised at what dad doesn't "like" there really is no argument. What she wears at home can be stretchy, or tight, etc.....but what she wears in public is not.
Some girls are ignorant of the way their choices affect men, some are NOT ignorant and like teasing and tormenting the oposite sex.
I think too many girls these days have allowed modesty to be completely destroyed for all practical purposes. I see too often no real difference in dress standards between girls claiming faith, and those without.
But like the men said above....what a girl doesn't learn from a father she may still learn from a husband.
*shrugs* Just my two cents worth.
You're fighting an uphill battle on the career oriented thing and feminist behaviors; that is the water we swim in today; especially if you entrusted her to the public schools. A desire to marry and raise kids is something you need to encourage from childhood. But if you got that right previously this could just be later influence. I've known young girls whose main goal in life was to have kids, yet nevertheless put that off for school and career (to their detriment). It may be time to sit down and talk to her about the basics of the biology of female fertility and the practical problems with focusing on career first instead of marriage and kids. If you don't, no one else will.
Talking back evidences a lack of respect for your authority. Even if she disagrees with your decisions, she should still be respectful. But I wouldn't say its too late; it depends on the degree and your history. But if you and your wife don't present a united front to her on issues of standards (like dress) and behavior like this, she will exploit it and get worse. Often times this sort of behavior is rooted in your wife's lack of respect for your authority, and it can start young (toddlers).
So true and well stated!
Sounds like your 17 year old is testing the waters in several areas--talking back
. You can help her learn to express her thoughts, though they may differ from yours, but to do so with respect towards your as her father. Wearing clothing you (and perhaps not your wife) consider questionable. She's becoming self-aware of her sexuality and the beautiful body with which she has been blessed. All of that is very normal and healthy! Helping her understand what she's saying and how men are receiving her messages will go a long ways in guiding her for the future years. Perhaps your wife's mother or father never had these talks with her when she was 17. No wonder that she doesn't know how to talk with your daughter. Career oriented--the world is calling. You say she enjoys conversation centered around Scripture. That's really good. Have you asked her or had conversations centered around what does she hear her Father God calling her to do? Have you had casual but serious sit-down-father-daughter talk times about her interests, her life goals, her views in all areas? Are you willing to hear your daughter's thoughts as a young adult w/o pouncing, judging, condemning, name calling, berating her? Obviously you have tried to set the tone of your home. You've had an idea of how you wanted your daughter to look and be at this tender age of 17 but almost adult young woman. How well do you really know your own daughter? I encourage you to have some verbal fishing expeditions with your daughter--which means you go in looking for information rather than trying to forge lines of requirements and reinforce established lines you've already tried to instill. Outside influences are obviously factoring into her world view. Be willing to ask yourself the tough questions of how did those influences come into her life? It wasn't through your wife who doesn't know how to mother your daughter. Have you done due diligence in preparing your daughter to know how to handle those influences you now see swaying her away from what you once envisioned?
At the same time, I would encourage you to have quality conversations with your beloved--exampled by @Jim an Apostle.
"Just be the man (in Love). Lead and be a King not a dictator. Be a husband, be firm with gentleness and meekness, but not weakness. As the head you have the right to set the tone and standard of the house." Bringing your wife along in this so that the 2 of you are on the same page as you deal with your daughter will go a long ways in keeping that daughter from driving a wedge and causing division between the two of you.
Ultimately, you stand at the door of your tent. Is there a weak link? Where did it begin to be forged? How can you begin to strengthen that weak link? Are there younger children coming up behind this 17 year old who are also watching this play out? Are they also demonstrating inclinations towards the same bent? Whatever has produced this in your 17 year old is already factoring into their young lives and perspective as well.
Lastly, do you want your daughter to be a cookie-cutter image of you or your wife? If so, then you are denying that she is an individual human created by Almighty God with a specific purpose for being on planet Earth. Believe me, I'm so aware that as parents we wish to instill Biblical values and principles in our children. We also want to know that our grandchildren are going to experience loving and safe environments in which they also will flourish and blossom. We usually desire to see our children go beyond what we've been able to accomplish. Will they encounter new truths we've not yet learned? Will they feel led by their Father to pursue goals and pursuits we never dreamed of? Will they embrace all of our value system? Will they become well-adjusted and healthy human beings passionately loving and serving our God under our tutelage?
IMHO far too many children have been required to live a lie in the churches and homes attending those churches, or even unchurched homes. They've not been allowed to ask important questions which might challenge guidelines or beliefs as they've matured and explored new info. Your influence in such dialogue helps ground them in why you believe what you believe. They will begin to forge their own set of values whether you have the dialogue or don't. They may have to live the double standard while under your roof if they've begun accepting ideas or concepts which don't align with your influence. I really believe the extremely high divorce rate of young adults, the stats showing children leaving the church never to return, walking away from everything dad and mom held dear, are a commentary on what happened or didn't happen as parents tried to navigate the tumultuous waters of parenting. You've got your work cut out for you. I wish you the best. I didn't mean for this to be so long. It's my 2 cents worth and feel free to consider it as such.
That's not a bad habit. You are equals. You just have different roles. I always talk to my wife as an equal - and then if we disagree I'll make the decision and we both do that, but still working together as equals. A good boss will also talk to his employees as "equals", so as to hear their advice & perspectives clearly, even though he will ultimately make the decision - talking down to those organisationally under you simply puts barriers in the way of effective communication. Patriarchy does not in any way equal inequality.