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Hebrews root and Messianic jews
- Thread starter Evo
- Start date
Generally speaking,
Messianic Jews are Jews who believe Jesus/Yeshua is the Messiah. Most believe the Torah only applies to Jews. Messianic Jews often do nit recognize Hebrew roots as value.
Hebrew roots are NON- Jews who keep Torah and believe Jesus/Yeshua is the Messiah. Hebrew roots generally accept Messianic Jews but do not embrace many traditions in the Jewish ranks.
As with all Christians and Jews, there are many nuances and 'sects' in both the Hebrew roots and Messianic Jewish groups.
Messianic Jews are Jews who believe Jesus/Yeshua is the Messiah. Most believe the Torah only applies to Jews. Messianic Jews often do nit recognize Hebrew roots as value.
Hebrew roots are NON- Jews who keep Torah and believe Jesus/Yeshua is the Messiah. Hebrew roots generally accept Messianic Jews but do not embrace many traditions in the Jewish ranks.
As with all Christians and Jews, there are many nuances and 'sects' in both the Hebrew roots and Messianic Jewish groups.
C
Cap
Guest
Sounds really confusing, like Catholics and Baptists, or seventh day adventist and methodists, or any of the other sorted divisional denominations. Why not just be labeled as a follower of Christ?
I’ll add some details although @PeteR covered it pretty well.
Messianic Jews adopt many of the customs and trappings of Judaism, for instance menorahs, Purim, Hanakah, and to their great shame prayer shawls. (Sorry guys but Paul is pretty clear on this). Now other than the prayer shawls there’s nothing wrong with this. Also non-Jewish messianic Jews (I know, it sounds like a contradiction) tend to be more Pentecostal, think Assemblies of God with a decided Jewish flare.
Hebrew riots or Torah observant Christians or whatever we choose to call ourselves generally don’t adopt those trappings of Judaism that aren’t commands found in Scripture. We tend, there are always exceptions in this group, to not use menorahs or observe Purim. We also tend to not take on traditional teachings, for instance many Jews won’t eat cheeseburgers or meat with any red in it. They point to Laws that touch on the same areas and believe that their traditions make it possible to obey the letter and the spirit of those Laws more easily and sometimes more fully. In contrast while I’m not a big cheeseburger man I love my steaks as red as they can get and still be warm inside. As a Torah keeper I stop at a strict, literal and proudly legalistic reading of the Law. The Torah keeper’s way isn’t better unless you’re eating a steak, but it is significantly different.
Some other differences you’ll find is that Messianic Jews accept power structures and organizations much more readily than Hebrew roots/Torah keepers, hence the Messianics are much better organized and more visible. Torah keepers tend to reject all authority and sources other than the Bible (many accept the Apocrypha to varying degrees as well) while Messianics will recognize rabbis and religious writings in addition to the Bible.
Also, most Messianics don’t accept polygyny as scriptural, although to be honest @IshChayil and @PeteR are better equipped to go in to all of this.
But the gist of the thing is that Messianics are much more polished, organized and deliberate and they adopt Jewish customs found outside of scripture. Hebrew roots/Torah observant Christians tend to be a lot wilder and iconoclastic and have far fewer authorities and formal teachings.
Great point, @PeteR, and it's important for all of us to remember that we are neither commanded to insist on nor condemn whether one chooses to be labeled, not be labeled, live in boxes or not live in boxes. Those choices are left up to us as individuals, in consultation with our Maker.
The critical question that nobody has addressed is:
The Gospel is very clear. It's all about Jesus.
"if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)
That's all it takes to be a follower of Jesus. And that is sufficient for salvation.
But, if He is our Lord, and we are truly following Him as Lord, that means we will obey Him. Before we can obey Him, we must understand what He wants us to do. We must hear His voice and obey it. How does He speak to us? Through scripture, through other Christians, and through the prompting of the Holy Spirit in our hearts.
The differences between ALL variants / denominations of Christianity come down to our understanding of what God would want us to do, how God would want us to live our lives. And this is because people interpret scripture differently, listen to the advice and teaching of different people, and even actually hear different instructions from the Holy Spirit for their own personal lives (since obviously all of our circumstances are different, and God has different jobs for each of us, God may have different instructions for each of us on occasion).
Catholics place great weight on tradition (the advice of Catholic Christians on how to interpret scripture and live). Messianics also place great weight on tradition (the advice of Jewish rabbis on how to interpret scripture and live). Hebrew Roots, and self-described "fundamentalist" Christians, place more weight on reading scripture and trying to follow the plain reading of it without interpreting it through tradition (but all still interpret it through some level of tradition, because ignoring all tradition is impossible, which is why they all come to different conclusions!). And so forth.
But it's all simply a difference in understanding what His instructions for our lives are.
So, back to the question:
If somebody sincerely believes that God is instructing them to do one thing, but does something different, then they are sinning.
God looks at the heart. Following Jesus is NOT about getting every piece of our theology correct. It is about asking "What would you have me do today Lord" and obeying that. Then asking the same question tomorrow.
Ask God what He wants you to do, and listen to His "still, small voice" in your conscience. Read scripture. Tell your husband what you are thinking, feeling or hearing, and let your husband help you understand what it all means for how you should act today. Maybe God's next instruction for you is to stop eating pork (a Hebrew Roots position). However, maybe there is something far more important in your life that He wants you to address before you even look at dietary laws. What are His commands for you, today? That is the most important question for you to answer - in consultation with your husband.
I'll risk offending everybody by attempting to answer that one for @Evo!
The Gospel is very clear. It's all about Jesus.
"if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)
That's all it takes to be a follower of Jesus. And that is sufficient for salvation.
But, if He is our Lord, and we are truly following Him as Lord, that means we will obey Him. Before we can obey Him, we must understand what He wants us to do. We must hear His voice and obey it. How does He speak to us? Through scripture, through other Christians, and through the prompting of the Holy Spirit in our hearts.
The differences between ALL variants / denominations of Christianity come down to our understanding of what God would want us to do, how God would want us to live our lives. And this is because people interpret scripture differently, listen to the advice and teaching of different people, and even actually hear different instructions from the Holy Spirit for their own personal lives (since obviously all of our circumstances are different, and God has different jobs for each of us, God may have different instructions for each of us on occasion).
Catholics place great weight on tradition (the advice of Catholic Christians on how to interpret scripture and live). Messianics also place great weight on tradition (the advice of Jewish rabbis on how to interpret scripture and live). Hebrew Roots, and self-described "fundamentalist" Christians, place more weight on reading scripture and trying to follow the plain reading of it without interpreting it through tradition (but all still interpret it through some level of tradition, because ignoring all tradition is impossible, which is why they all come to different conclusions!). And so forth.
But it's all simply a difference in understanding what His instructions for our lives are.
So, back to the question:
If somebody sincerely believes that God is instructing them to live in a certain way, and they then obey what they believe God is telling them to do, they are doing well.
If somebody sincerely believes that God is instructing them to do one thing, but does something different, then they are sinning.
God looks at the heart. Following Jesus is NOT about getting every piece of our theology correct. It is about asking "What would you have me do today Lord" and obeying that. Then asking the same question tomorrow.
Ask God what He wants you to do, and listen to His "still, small voice" in your conscience. Read scripture. Tell your husband what you are thinking, feeling or hearing, and let your husband help you understand what it all means for how you should act today. Maybe God's next instruction for you is to stop eating pork (a Hebrew Roots position). However, maybe there is something far more important in your life that He wants you to address before you even look at dietary laws. What are His commands for you, today? That is the most important question for you to answer - in consultation with your husband.
C
Cap
Guest
Messianic Jews portrayed as Darth Vader, interesting but I'll leave it alone.
I think you got that backwards didn’t you? The traditions developed over thousands of years. The closer you get to Moses the more it would have looked like simple Torah observance right?
Well historically, the new "Messianic Judaism" started with the Jesus movement in the 60's and 70's.
Contact with Messianic Jews and the message of being able to keep Torah & believe in Yeshua was popularized by our movement.
The Hebrew roots movement is a clear consequence from contact with an ever maturing (though still quite immature) Messianic Judaism (though there are some like M. Rood and others who now try to distance from our movement as they also claim to not be Hebrew roots either... )
Many of the books, leaders, etc. produced by our movement had a profound effect on starting spinning off the Hebrew roots movement.
What started as "Jewish Roots" (See Rabbi Daniel Juster) morphed into a more generalized "Hebrew Roots."
This is what I meant by the Vader - Luke fun. Hebrew roots is to Messianic Judaism as the Charasmatic churces are to Pentecostalism.
I don't think this position is controversial at all.
**** edit about a minute after post****
I'm not saying it makes our position(s) more or less correct. It could be that the continual "reform" started by Messianics (several Messianic organizations believe Torah is for those born Gentiles as well) was picked up by various Hebrew roots groups in this past decade as we see the amazing explosion of Torah in that direction.
I was just yanking your chain sir. There is much us wildings can learn from the civilized folk.
Mostly, the wildlings just want patient acceptance from the civilized folk, but most ignore us or worse. To @IshChayil 's great and everlasting credit, he not only tolerates our foibles but actually loves us!
@IshChayil , achi, I love you, man! Can't wait to give you a hug in Jerusalem and sit for hours fellowshipping. I. Can't. Wait.