How is my past relationship affected by biblical marriage?

[ContraMundum]

So, I’m in need of some counsel for something I’ve found difficult to parse through on my own. I think reading some of what’s been said on the recent discussions on when marriage begins has caused me to think more about how the truth on this matter may affect me. I’ve come to feel a burden to figure out the nature of a past relationship and what I should do knowing what I now know about Patriarchy and biblical marriage. I’ve spent 4 years building and maintaining a mental wall between me and this past relationship, so I may have trouble recalling things. This is my attempt to share what wasn’t lost behind this wall in hopes I can get some help to see things more clearly. Feel free to skip to the bullet points if you just want what I consider to be the relevant facts only.

I began a serious relationship with a woman; we will call her K, about 8 years ago when I was 18. This relationship lasted for about 3 years and it’s been about 4 years since I’ve had any sort of contact with her. During our relationship I considered myself a Christian, K did not. I no longer am confidant I was in the faith during this period for various reasons. If that has an impact on how anyone reading this would advise me, please feel free to ask me more questions about it to clarify the validity or falsity of my perception. I know I didn’t understand biblical marriage to any degree, but I did have a strong sense of responsibility and commitment in my relationship with K.

K was not a virgin when we met due to her casual encounters in public high school, though I was. We had sex throughout our relationship with varying understandings of what was happening. For the most part I rationalized that it was okay because we were going to get “married” at some point anyway. There were periods I felt convicted that I was in sin and successfully put an end to our intimacy for short periods until I stumbled again, either rationalizing it the way I had before or immediately feeling guilty and trying to stop once again. She never really had a problem with us having sex, though she had a problem with our periods of abstinence.

For a majority of our relationship I did act as a responsible head over her and promised to be that for her forever. I did live with her at some point as well. I promised provision, protection, and children. She accepted that and was depending on me for her future. There was also a proposal of sorts; where I asked her to marry me and she said yes. My memory is hazy, but I think there was a period that we even considered ourselves married in some sense and were just waiting for a wedding. I believe our understanding of this fluctuated for reasons I no longer can recall.

At about the 3 year mark our relationship ended because I eventually committed myself to the idea that I couldn’t marry K unless she became a Christian first. This became a huge burden to her and over time she became fed up with the fact that I wouldn’t marry her after 3 years of waiting and she broke it off. There was minor contact with her as the dust of the breakup was settling, but I eventually completely ran away from my old life, put up the mental wall to not think about or remember my past, and moved away.

Soon after, I believe I truly came to faith and eventually met the woman who became my wife. Now 4 years down the road after not so much as thinking about K except for a rare restless night of remorse and prayer for her a few months after realizing the truth about biblical marriage. I learned of this truth about a year ago and it isn’t until now that I am burdened to really wrestle with my past and to try to define what that relationship was and what I should do about it now knowing what I know. I’ve spent a lot of time in prayer over this and have been grieved by my past foolishness. I feel like I put away someone whom I promised much and delivered pain.

I know this is mouthful, so I’m going to list the facts I think may be relevant to helping me.

• Relationship was serious and lasted 3 years.
• We weren’t Christians.
• I lacked understanding of biblical marriage.
• I felt responsible and committed to K. Our relationship was intended to be permanent.
• K was not a virgin through a few one night stands. I was.
• We had sex throughout our relationship. Sometimes with an understanding that we were getting “married” or were “married” anyway, sometimes thinking of it as wrong and needed to stop. She didn’t like the abstinence.
• I acted as a head over her and promised her provision, protection, and children.
• I asked her to marry me and she said yes.
• Not sure, but I think we considered ourselves already married at some point. Though, this perception did fluctuate.
• We lived together at some point.
• I’ll also note here, that she did live with her parents. It was clear though that her father claimed no authority over her and she did as she wanted. He also approved of the relationship and where it was going.
• K left me because she was tired of waiting for me to marry her because I wouldn’t marry her unless she became a Christian.
• I haven’t really contacted her since the breakup. It’s been 4 years.

Here are some questions I’m asking as I try to figure out how to handle this. If you have answers for any of these questions I would love to hear as much as you can offer me.

• Does it make a difference if I was a Christian during this relationship?
• Were we married?
• Are we still married?
• If not, should I have married her?
• If so, should I still attempt to marry her now?
• If I shouldn’t marry her now, should I be connected to her in any way?
• If I should attempt to marry her or I already am married to her, how do I approach this with her? I’m sure I don’t just go up to her and say, “What’s up wife, come home with me.” Haha.
• How should I respond if she refuses to be married after the best approach is followed?
• Aside from plenty of tension to be dealt with, how does this affect the marriage I currently am working on?

I don’t know if this is just me, but I feel like this is complicated to try to pin down what happened and where I should go from here. I think a lot of the confusion comes from the fact that words like marriage come with assumptions. All I know is that I need to make contact with her soon and at the very least apologize to her. Please ask me any questions you might have and give me the longest winded answers you can muster up! You guys/gals are the only people I have to seek counsel from that will remotely understand what I’m dealing with. I’ll be happy with as much as I can get from all you lovely people. If anyone would like to correspond with me privately as I work through this I would be happy to as well. Thank you for taking time from your day to read this. Shalom.

 

[FollowingHim2]

I'm not going to get into the depths of this, as it's really a great one for the guys to discuss, but I am going to mention a few things.
First of all, no matter what happened and whether it was right or wrong, you are forgiven. This doesn't dissolve you of any possible obligations you may or may not have to this woman. What I mean is that YHWH has forgiven you. You were not a Christian then (I fully understand looking back and realising you weren't a Christian, I've been there too), and you are now. Past sins are forgiven you.
Secondly, what does your current wife think about all this? Have you discussed PM with her? Have you discussed this past relationship with her? Don't even think about possibly considering bringing this other woman into your home unless your wife is fully aware, fully on board, and really has a true grasp of what she's getting herself into.
Thirdly, in my opinion, if you wanted to consider bringing this other woman into your family, then she needs to be a Christian. I've seen so many plural marriages fall apart while I've been on BF, and they just about all boil down to at least one of the members not listening to or following YHWH. Your foundation needs to be Him, and it can't be shaky.

And now I'll leave it up to the men to discuss what your obligations are .
Shalom.

 

[ContraMundum]

Thank you for your input and encouragement Sarah. I am definitely not living under condemnation and I affirm what you've said about forgiveness. I'll briefly answer your questions so that it could assist in further counsel. We will also call my current wife T from here on in order to minimize confusion.

What does T think about this? At the moment I have not discussed this burden with her. I thought it wise to seek counsel and understanding before I go and open that can of worms, but I do intend to do so before I even make contact with K.

Have I discussed PM with T? Yes. This is a complicated story in which I'd happily get into as needed. Throughout my year of developing my understanding of PM she has gone from curious to open to desiring PM more than me to violent opposition to general defensiveness to tentatively seeking understanding. Suffice to say, we've had quite the adventure to get where we are now, haha. So she is no longer on board in general and not aware of this specific circumstance yet.

Have I discussed this past relationship with T? To some degree. The wall I put up made it easy to treat the past relationship as trivial for the last 4 years. So what T knows is that I had the relationship for 3 years, we had sex, and how it ended. That's about as much as I kept record of in my mind and as much as she really wanted to know. I definitely need to talk with her more about this now though.

I absolutely understand your last point as well. I really didn't even want to consider bringing her into my family, but I wonder if I have a responsibility to offer that to her. It reminds me of how I ought to respond if I stole something from my neighbor. I should confess it as sin and attempt to return what I stole. In no way would I want to bring a non believer into this family if it wasn't what I owed her. To be honest, I've only breached the possibility that I owe her my headship because I thought about how I'd want to be treated in her situation. I want to love my neighbor the way YHWH loves me.

Looking forward to hearing how anyone else might advise me on how to best do this!

 

[aineo]

@ContraMundum, let me begin with a question or two that might impact the discussion. First, do you know if K is married now? Second, do you know if she has had sexual relations since your relationship ended?

 

[ContraMundum]

aineo, I don't know for certain what her marital status is but I have good reason to think she may not. 1. She is still living with her father 2. My mother who is still friends with her on Facebook has shown me that there is no sign of any current relationship, let alone marriage. She didn't hide our relationship on Facebook, so she may not do that with others. I will find out from her myself before I take any action outside of an apology of course.

I don't really know about her sexual relations either. I know she has had some kind of relationship, but I really don't know more than that. If she was the same way with this other relationship as she was with me I'm sure they would have had sex unless her perspective was different at the time. I'm just guessing though.

 

[FollowingHim2]

Have I discussed PM with T? Yes. This is a complicated story in which I'd happily get into as needed. Throughout my year of developing my understanding of PM she has gone from curious to open to desiring PM more than me to violent opposition to general defensiveness to tentatively seeking understanding. Suffice to say, we've had quite the adventure to get where we are now, haha. So she is no longer on board in general and not aware of this specific circumstance yet.

Exactly. This is a fairly normal response. It takes time for a woman to wrap her head around the idea, and just when she thinks she's got it sorted, some fear comes up that kicks her in the guts and tells her she can't do it. I mentioned this because if you suddenly chucked it on her and told her that you wanted to bring your ex into the house she would probably run a mile.
Which leads me on to the discussion of bringing your ex into the house. I jumped straight to that because I wanted to make it clear that if in your other discussions you decide this is the correct thing to do, I wanted you to understand that it may not be the most practical or acceptable thing to do. Life is so complicated, as you understand. It's so easy to look at the bible and try and make things black and white, but life is full of greys and it can be difficult to apply it to every situation.
If you feel you owe this woman something, the best thing that you can possibly give her is to make contact again and bring her to Christ. Salvation trumps anything else you can or should offer. In my opinion anyway .

 

[The Revolting Man]

I am not known for my tactfulness or having a good bedside manner so forgive if I come across as rude but you must put a full on and complete halt on any contact with this woman. The reasons are myriad.

First things first, your sentiments do you justice. You obviously have the right heart attitude. Now lets get your head right.

You say you know nothing about biblical marriage. That's where you need to start. You are wanting to make your marital status right with God. You have to find out what He says. Its an easy topic to be right about. There are some legitimate debates around the edges but it is very easy to figure out what is definitely right. The debates tend to be about things that may or may not be wrong.

Second off, you are most likely not married to this woman. She was not a virgin. The role of sex alone in forming a marriage is the hottest flash point in the relatively few debates surrounding biblical marriage but there are two mitigating factors here. One is that she left you and she refused to become a Chrisitian. Whether or or not you were a good Christian is irrelevant. You are not bound when the non-Christian leaves. And this brings up another point, it probably would be unlawful for you to try and marry her for this same reason. She would have to convert before you married her.

There are other reasons too. There is very little chance your wife is ready for this. It always get very real for the first wife when a name and face get applied to what had been a distant possibility. Men should never be subjected to their wives but its only a fool who doesn't take her into consideration. Remember that the most important element to getting a second wife is keeping the first one.

I am not insensitive to your situation. Before marrying my wife I had a sexual relationship with a godly virgin who I left unlawfully. I was married to her in God's eyes and I out her away. I was a Christian with knowledge of the truth so I had no excuse.

Under the law I shouldn't have remarried (although there may be some debate about this too, it might only apply to false accusations of adultery. You'll have to decide that for yourself.) I repented and asked God's permission to remarry. Normally I wouldn't say that was a get out of jail free card but I did remarry and God has richly blessed the marriage.

At one point I did approach the woman and apologized and asked her to come home. She never responded and I feel my conscience is free going forward but I am still sorrowful for my actions.

I would say this, don't be too quick to try and make your conscience feel better. Especially since it doesn't sound like you wronged her directly. And understand your wife has about a hundred more revolutions of the crazy train to go through before she really is on board.

And under no circumstances should you ever surprise your wife with something you did. You don't need her approval biblically but if you're not willing to bring her into the loop beforehand then its a clear indication that one or the both of you aren't ready.

Good luck brother. There are some great, experienced men for you to talk to here. Samuel and Steve are around the most but there are others. Just slow way down. And then slow down again. And then pour concrete on your feet and take some Benadryl with a Nyquil chaser. There is only one way to make thus thing work and a million ways it can blow up in your face.

 

[ContraMundum]

You say you know nothing about biblical marriage. That's where you need to start. You are wanting to make your marital status right with God. You have to find out what He says. Its an easy topic to be right about. There are some legitimate debates around the edges but it is very easy to figure out what is definitely right. The debates tend to be about things that may or may not be wrong.

Just wanted to clear up something I may not have stated very clearly. I didn't know anything about biblical marriage back when I was in this relationship. Currently I'm about a year in of heavily studying this and have a much better understanding of it now. Perhaps the fact I'm having trouble figuring out this situation tells me that I don't know much still. But I think you are filling me in on a missing piece that I shouldn't have forgotten to consider. That is:

Second off, you are most likely not married to this woman. She was not a virgin. The role of sex alone in forming a marriage is the hottest flash point in the relatively few debates surrounding biblical marriage but there are two mitigating factors here. One is that she left you and she refused to become a Chrisitian. Whether or or not you were a good Christian is irrelevant. You are not bound when the non-Christian leaves. And this brings up another point, it probably would be unlawful for you to try and marry her for this same reason. She would have to convert before you married her.

I've known this about marriage, but did not consider it applied to me yet. I suppose it was far from my considerations because I really have a hard time believing I was even a Christian at all, let alone a good one. This is something I determined long before I learned of biblical marriage. The shift from back then to when I believe I was saved was quite potent in experience and thought. I felt like I had gone from being a Pharisee to a humbled wicked man leaning on his grace and mercy; going from making myself my lord to making Him my Lord; loving Him because He first loved me. I perceived a tremendous difference in all facets of my self. It's hard for me to see me using Christianity for my own self righteous gain the fruit of one who was in the fold of The Almighty. So what if I wasn't a Christian? I agree with the mitigation you present here if I was, which compels me to really be sure about that since it makes all the difference.

By the way, I actually very much enjoy your candour from other posts I've read from you. It's a pleasure to finally be the subject of such! Thank you! Hahaha!

 

[ContraMundum]

I'll also add, ZecAustin, that the pace I'm at is meant to be slow since I'm here with you fellas rather than meeting with K already. I don't plan on taking any action until I've gathered as much wise counsel as possible, alongside much prayer. I need to be sure I act in faith and not haste. Honestly, I would be more likely to find excuses not to do anything about this than submit to good reasons to do something.

Oh, and I would like to know why you think I shouldn't even contact her to apologize even if there is no obligations on my end. I suppose it may be risky in some way? Or do I not owe her an apology?

I am not known for my tactfulness or having a good bedside manner so forgive if I come across as rude but you must put a full on and complete halt on any contact with this woman. The reasons are myriad.

 

[FollowingHim]

I think we have a tendency to get too theological about such things, and to try and dissect things too far. Christianity is simple. For most of the history of the Church most Christians have been illiterate and with no access to Scripture to conduct exhaustive studies on every technicality. Yet they could still serve Yeshua well, because His yoke is easy and His burden is light. The law is summed up in two commands - love God and love your neighbour. Yes, it is good to study further to try and act correctly, study is good not bad. However we need not get too worked up into knots about the details, because often the practical application is very simple.

How best can you love K, and also love T, as yourself?

Firstly, your obligation is to T. She is most certainly your wife, no doubt about that. So she comes first.

Secondly, had you caused direct issues for K or her family, you would be obliged to immediately address those. If you had a child by her for instance. Or if you had taken her virginity without paying a bride-price and now she was unable to marry another without bringing shame on herself and her father (think of the situation for a woman accused of playing the whore in her father's house in Old Testament culture, or modern Islamic culture for that matter). Or if you'd mistreated her in a way that caused ongoing medical or psychological problems. In any of those cases, loving her would require immediate actions to take responsibility for her welfare.

Thirdly, after the practical issues, would come any theological obligation. I don't want to minimise this, sin is sin. But if there is no practical harm you have caused, and this is all splitting hairs over "was I technically married or not", then it's clearly less serious than if we're talking about starving kids you've abandoned. There's time to relax and ponder it calmly.

I don't like using the English word "marriage" in such situations because it is too loaded and not scriptural. The question is really:

"Was she your woman?" If she was nobody else's woman (no previous sexual partner had stepped up to take responsibility for her as their wife), you considered her to belong to you, and both her and her father were happy for her to be with you, then yes, she was your woman (rightly or wrongly).

"Is she still your woman?" No. You refused to commit to her in the state she was in (unsaved) and she left. Both considered the relationship ended (ie divorced). Whether you were right to divorce is a separate matter - whether it was sinful or not, you divorced. She has likely slept with other men since then, which would give you just reason to divorce her for adultery even if you had not divorced her initially. She is not your wife.

"Must you take her back as your wife?" No, I can see no requirement for you to.

"Should you take her back as your wife?" It's an option, if she stays single. No rush. The key question is, would it be loving to both T and K to do so?

Don't overanalyse the past. We are to repent from sin and live for God from this day forward, not be forever haunted by the past. So we don't even need to fully understand the past either. Decide from this day forward to love K as you love yourself, and if you ever see her in need in a way you could help without hurting T, do that. And the same goes for anyone else in your life.

 

[ContraMundum]

Thank you so much Samuel for your clear and edifying words. This is exactly what I was hoping for in staying up later than normal hoping for another response to ponder on. This truly helps me sort through this in a more productive manner. You are right that it is easy to get so caught up in the details that we can have a harder time seeing the simple stuff YHWH wants us to understand. I'm going to head off to bed now, but I'll sure to be back tomorrow if I have any questions or concerns. That being said, you've spoken words of peace into my life that I am very grateful for. I'll sleep more soundly I'm sure.

 

[IshChayil]

I think we have a tendency to get too theological about such things, and to try and dissect things too far. Christianity is simple. For most of the history of the Church most Christians have been illiterate and with no access to Scripture to conduct exhaustive studies on every technicality. Yet they could still serve Yeshua well, because His yoke is easy and His burden is light. The law is summed up in two commands - love God and love your neighbour. Yes, it is good to study further to try and act correctly, study is good not bad. However we need not get too worked up into knots about the details, because often the practical application is very simple.

How best can you love K, and also love T, as yourself?

Firstly, your obligation is to T. She is most certainly your wife, no doubt about that. So she comes first.

Secondly, had you caused direct issues for K or her family, you would be obliged to immediately address those. If you had a child by her for instance. Or if you had taken her virginity without paying a bride-price and now she was unable to marry another without bringing shame on herself and her father (think of the situation for a woman accused of playing the whore in her father's house in Old Testament culture, or modern Islamic culture for that matter). Or if you'd mistreated her in a way that caused ongoing medical or psychological problems. In any of those cases, loving her would require immediate actions to take responsibility for her welfare.

Thirdly, after the practical issues, would come any theological obligation. I don't want to minimise this, sin is sin. But if there is no practical harm you have caused, and this is all splitting hairs over "was I technically married or not", then it's clearly less serious than if we're talking about starving kids you've abandoned. There's time to relax and ponder it calmly.

I don't like using the English word "marriage" in such situations because it is too loaded and not scriptural. The question is really:

"Was she your woman?" If she was nobody else's woman (no previous sexual partner had stepped up to take responsibility for her as their wife), you considered her to belong to you, and both her and her father were happy for her to be with you, then yes, she was your woman (rightly or wrongly).

"Is she still your woman?" No. You refused to commit to her in the state she was in (unsaved) and she left. Both considered the relationship ended (ie divorced). Whether you were right to divorce is a separate matter - whether it was sinful or not, you divorced. She has likely slept with other men since then, which would give you just reason to divorce her for adultery even if you had not divorced her initially. She is not your wife.

"Must you take her back as your wife?" No, I can see no requirement for you to.

"Should you take her back as your wife?" It's an option, if she stays single. No rush. The key question is, would it be loving to both T and K to do so?

Don't overanalyse the past. We are to repent from sin and live for God from this day forward, not be forever haunted by the past. So we don't even need to fully understand the past either. Decide from this day forward to love K as you love yourself, and if you ever see her in need in a way you could help without hurting T, do that. And the same goes for anyone else in your life.

Good point about the spirit of the law in this case. An Western, unbelieving, deflowered virgin has hardly any life-changing consequences to deal with compared to someone in Ancient Israel who's life would be ruined. This is a great elaboration on the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law.
Well put brother.

 

[IshChayil]

I would add that if G-d opens the door to bring this woman home and touches your wife's heart regarding the issue then wonderful.

About technicalities-yes you were married according to biblical law.
No she did not divorce you, you did put her out because you made an ultimatum where the New Testament scriptures teach us that if you have an unbelieving spouse and they are OK to live with you, then great. In this specific case (I'm not speaking as condemnation only as wisdom point for anyone else in that situation), we can't force an unbelieving spouse out if they refuse to convert.
If they leave on their own then we are blameless.

The one brother, I think it was ZecAustin, who asked you if she's slept with anyone else has a reason. I imagine he's thinking of the biblical command that if a man divorces his wife, and she marries another man, then that man dies or divorces her, the first man is NOT ALLOWED to take her back.
So the idea here is if she slept with someone else, and you return her to you, it is like that situation if she's slept with someone else though there is some disagreement on this point as to if she was a concubine/contractual wife versus just an affair. We know Yeshua adds a hedge around sexual laws (If a man looks at a woman who is someone else's with lust then he has committed adultery in his heart...) so I think applying Yeshua's standard it's probably safe to say that just the act of sleeping with someone else is equivalent to "marrying another man".
Please consult the Holy Spirit on this one

Interesting that the abomination that is Islam has an exact opposite rule. If a man divorces his wife, by Quranic law he is NOT ALLOWED to remarry her UNTIL she has slept with a nother man! Such wickedness.

 

[NetWatchR]

Interesting that the abomination that is Islam has an exact opposite rule. If a man divorces his wife, by Quranic law he is NOT ALLOWED to remarry her UNTIL she has slept with a nother man! Such wickedness.

I did not know this. That just seems... odd. Rhetorically, why would I want her to sleep with someone else first?