Jerusalem 1917-2017

[Quartus]

Art thou a king then?
Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. John 18:37
and Jerusalem is, “the city of the great King”. Matt 5:35

100 years ago,
December 9,1917: following defeats in Palestine, Ottoman armies retreat from Jerusalem
December 10,1917:Mayor of Jerusalem spends the day trying to surrender the city to anyone who will listen while British Officers pull rank over who gets to accept the surrender.
December 11, 1917: General Allenby walks into City of Jerusalem on foot to accept the surrender.

Anyone can call themselves a king, but it really does boost credibility enormously if you just happen to have your own land, your own people, and your own capital city. Ezekiel documents the preparations to be made for the return of the King:

Eze 37:21 Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land.
Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.

And so 100 years ago this weekend, the early stages of this prophecy commenced as Britain took control of Jerusalem and invited the Jews back to Israel as promised in the Balfour Declaration.
Fifty years after the First Zionist Congress in1897, Israel became a nation (1947-48).
Fifty years after 1917, the Six-Day war gave the Jews part of the city of Jerusalem.
Now another 50 years has passed, and Jerusalem is developing into the burdensome stone as foretold in Zech 12:3, and is currently in the news as America decides to relocate its Embassy there. The fulfilment of these prophecies all point to the return of Christ as King (Luke 1:31-33).


Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.
With top speeds of 155mph, state of the art fighter planes in 1917 were still slower than a peregrine falcon in a hurry. For those interested in military history, Allenby is notable among the first commanders to co-ordinate air and land forces effectively. The way Jerusalem was freed from Ottoman control had never been seen before 1917. (Military Thesis: ANGELS OF ARMAGEDDON: THE ROYAL AIR FORCE IN THE BATTLE OF MEGIDDO http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a471594.pdf)

 

[The Revolting Man]

Heady stuff. We live in interesting times.

 

[Quartus]

Yes indeed. The 50th year is associated with liberty for all the inhabitants:

Lev 25:10 And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, when each of you shall return to his property and each of you shall return to his clan.

 

[cubanito]

If they loved Christ and peace, we should be happy and comfortable. Seems a big storm is coming?
Maybe future new world order religion / political power hub with good jobs?
Can we be Christian Goy and still get good jobs there? Maybe preach the gospel of Christ?
That would be great!

 

[Quartus]

Hi Cubanito, I think your list is pretty much in keeping with my understanding of the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, though I think it might be beneficial to discuss the Melchisedek theme further. Here are a few quotes I would consider relevant:

If they loved Christ and peace

Agreed, the Jews in the land generally do not have the faith and hope of Abraham:
Eze 36:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, .... I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.
God does this for the sake of the promises he made to the fathers, and the Jews in the land at Christ's return will have to come into line with them:
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Seems a big storm is coming?

The return of Christ and the resurrection (of the Fathers - Malachi again) take place at a time of trouble such as there never was
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Sadly, I believe the time of trouble is the only way that Israel will accept Christ. Even Elijah's 3.5 years of drought had no effect.

Maybe future new world order

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.... And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great ... Rev 11:15-18;
Maybe? for sure
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Can we be Christian Goy and still get good jobs there? Maybe preach the gospel of Christ?

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Kings and priests are Melchisedeks,
Melchisedek was without genealogy (Heb 7:1-3),
hence Melchisedek kings and priests can be from "EVERY kindred, tongue, people and nation"
for "God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." (Mat 3:9).
So I understand "every" would include any particular people, but also not exclude any others either.

 

[cubanito]

Yes, God is in control. That is the good news.
This is positive right? Many Orthodox also see something very wrong with what is growing so far.
https://popularresistance.org/israeli-zionists-do-not-speak-for-all-jews/

 

[Quartus]

Agree that God is in control, and nations are lining up as indicated in Ezekiel 38-39 etc, irrespective of the best efforts of for and against movements of whatever persuasion.

So for instance, I see protestant UK having a supportive role to Israel (as Tarshish), and I consider we will be out of Catholic Europe (and not broke) one way or the other before the return of Christ. While its tempting to say 'regardless of all the politicians that want to change the decision to leave at the current time, it may of course be another few years before we are out, and need another set of circumstances to bring it about. Whichever it is, I don't feel I need to worry about it all the issues, and I would feel the same whichever nation I was part of.

Politics aside though, all-jews-do-not-speak-for-God and so it may well be that the Zionists are closer to the scriptural/prophetic ideal. Equally, it may be that a weakness by their opponents is just what is needed for the correct prophetic outcome. However, I hardly think that anti-Jewish sentiment needs any Jewish support.

To go back to the UK Brexit scenario which I know a little better, I might have thought it would have been better for May to have a strong majority and tell Europe where to go, but her unexpected weakness in the election brought in the DUP party from Northern Ireland to give her a majority, and now their strong religious views have to be accommodated to get anything done - it would have been extremely unlikely to have that influence otherwise.

So absolutely, the whole thing is so complicated that it is indeed good news that God is in control.

 

[Quartus]

Anyway Israel has to dwell safely Ez 38:11. Do you see that as trading the oil that has been discovered there? That may mean that the "peace in our time" protestors may actually have their part to play in unwittingly establishing a peace which is only a false peace.

 

[IshChayil]

Yes, God is in control. That is the good news.
This is positive right? Many Orthodox also see something very wrong with what is growing so far.
https://popularresistance.org/israeli-zionists-do-not-speak-for-all-jews/

ב"ה
Your link is a bit over the top.
There's mention of genocide by Israel? Dude, we had nukes long before any of the Islamic states did. If we wanted to make genocide there would be no Islamic countries standing today.
Your linked article celebrates the leftist Jews who are against Israel... so what?
They are also for gay marriage, abortion, and all sorts of things; leftists be leftists.
The petition against Israel your linked article references fortunately has only 200 signatures. May it be continuously so ineffectual.
The article worries for the Arab refugees. Were you aware that in 1948 there were a similar number of Jewish refugees from Islamic lands (expelled then by the regimes in power) as the Arab refugees who fled Israel? The difference? We absorbed our refugees and what about the Arab lands? Most closed their doors to their Islamic brothers so that they could be a thorn and political pawn in our sides and so that one day Americans might sign stupid petitions on their behalf.
You've just been played.
Bravo to Jordan who alone accepted a sizable number of Arab refugees back then because the "Palestinian people" are ... wait for it... wait for it... ethnic Jordanians.There is no Palestinian ethnicity.
That's why there has never been a country called "Palestine" until 1948.
There was never a flag, army, anthem. Oh yes there were Arab pogroms against the Jews who lived in the land of Israel prior to 1948 which is part of the reason we needed a country so the Arabs wouldn't continue to slaughter the minority Jews living among them.

I don't want you to be cursed but you are inviting G-d's curse on your life, at least as understood among evangelical and several other flavors of Christianity.
It seems from many of your posts here like your "Israel's flag is 666" etc. that you have been seduced into an errant way of thinking and you have some beef against Jews/Israel.

I get the feeling you may be in need of blessing and I want that for you if you can get out from under this cursed way of thinking. Israel is a modern state and makes mistakes like any government does but it's for sure the place with the most liberty in that region of the world.

If it's OK with you, I'd like to enjoy the rest of Chanukkah without any more anti-Israel/anti-American soldier rhetoric. If you need a cause, may I suggest "Free Tibet"?
Or "Stop Islamic female genitalia mutilation" or "stop Saudi torture" or "stop planned parenthood murder of infants", or "Down with the United Nations".

There's a thousand things we can get worked up about where there is no question which side is evil. Let's leave Israel alone for awhile shall we? I think we've been the punching bag for long enough.

Love the trunk and your branches will be healthier...

 

[cubanito]

So far we are all being played from the prince of this world. Tension is created for a desired solution, over and over. This transcends religion and ethnicity. Those two are just a means for the tension. We need to think bigger. World kingdoms merging for full spectrum dominance.
Power corrupts, so does this make sense?

 

[IshChayil]

So far we are all being played from the prince of this world. Tension is created for a desired solution, over and over. This transcends religion and ethnicity. Those two are just a means for the tension. We need to think bigger. World kingdoms merging for full spectrum dominance.
Power corrupts, so does this make sense?

Be that as it may, you are the one who keeps returning to anti-Israel or anti-US military causes. Maybe it's time to pick up the "free Tibet" cause? The anti-Israel antics makes for some strange bedfellows for Christians.

 

[cubanito]

 

[IshChayil]

I've seen this pattern from you many times.
First you make outrageous claims against Israel or Jews or the US military.
Then someone calls you out.
Then you retreat to broad generalizations like "there is an evil mind in the world" or "governments are bad" without ever dealing with the root antisemitism or anti-military sentiment driving your posts. So if it is true that you simply have a broad distrust for governments in general, then pick on a different one for a while.
There are quite a few of them you know.
Lots of corruption to go around just South of the border...

 

[steve]

When Yeshua walked the earth, the destruction of the temple and the scattering of the Jews was in the future.
He knew what was about to happen, but he wasted zero angst over it. His message was continually about people’s lives and their relationship with their Creator.

Wars, rumors of wars, yada yada yada.
It’s all very interesting and I am popping popcorn to eat while watching the outcome, but my focus is all about becoming the best person that I can become. Hopefully becoming someone that can be a person that He needs me to be in the great rebuilding, aka the Millennium.
“Understanding the NWO” is not one of the gifts of the spirit, and it doesn’t make me any more Christlike. It can be a fun intellectual exercise, but let’s not make it our identity.

 

[cubanito]

No sacred cows right? Some decent orhodox Jewish guys don't buy the war death thing. Does that make them bad?
I hope not...
We believe what we choose. We all have different perspectives and come from different walks. Time usually shows us what is real and who or what we align with depends on how we see.
I will never change any perspective. I am nothing. The wholly spirit is who leads us in all truth. Is up to our hearts to choose.

 

[cubanito]

Is interesting to learn what we can. Yes, Christ wins ultimately, but is interesting to see the mechanisms in the script. God is in control, we just have to love His truth. How can we tell?
What if we can get destroyed from lack of knowledge, for rejecting knowledge? I don't want that, so try to learn as much as possible. Is not for everyone I Guess.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

I really appreciate the tenor of the comments here. If nothing else positive has come of this thread, perhaps we can point to that.

On that note, I wouldn't mind having a conversation that doesn't end up focused on the NWO or uncle beastie. I don't mind a bit of it and have my own views on it, but this is becoming an unhealthy fixation on something that detracts from the stated mission for this forum.

BTW. I'm presenting this as my own personal perspective, not as a moderator, but I'm ready for something besides this focus.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Israel is God's problem and He will deal with it as He sees fit. From a practical standpoint though it seems fairly obvious that the modern nation of Israel always makes the right enemies. Personally, I will always support Israel. God will bless those that bless them and curse those that curse them.

 

[Quartus]

I don't see a conflict between OT and NT, but, nevertheless I do see the OT is the law for a nation (natural Israel), the NT is the law for an individual (spiritual Israel).
(The two do not get combined until Christ is back as the Messiah bringing the national salvation that Israel has always expected - Zech 12:8-14) .

Without the NT then, only the OT law for the nation prevails, which would tend towards Zionism from the OT historical examples, (and also from prophecies of the future). In that case, the OT may well be be regarded as a political manual.

But add the NT and then the emphasis can change to
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

As is often the case, this verse does (at least) two jobs:
Yes, it teaches restraint NOW, but anticipates or promises that that restraint will be removed LATER.

This was not a new thing, it was of all people, none other than King David himself that was caused to write
Psa_110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.

NT principles won't work to control any political nation on the earth, we have to wait for the future time for the rest of Psalm 110 and the fulfilment of the promises.
Certainly I believe we should observe the signs, but we should acknowledge God's wisdom and power to establish the future Kingdom of Israel in the way that he thinks best.

Whatever is tried or not tried, it will take Zechariah's earthquake (Zech 14:9) to get rid of the Mosque and Father Abraham raised from the dead to knock some sense into ALL his children before the Arab-Jewish conflict is resolved.

 

[andrew]

I really appreciate the tenor of the comments here. If nothing else positive has come of this thread, perhaps we can point to that.

On that note, I wouldn't mind having a conversation that doesn't end up focused on the NWO or uncle beastie. I don't mind a bit of it and have my own views on it, but this is becoming an unhealthy fixation on something that detracts from the stated mission for this forum.

BTW. I'm presenting this as my own personal perspective, not as a moderator, but I'm ready for something besides this focus.

Agreed 100% with all the above. Piggybacking a bit:

I think it was Covey, might have been someone else, who talked about sphere of concern and sphere of control. It doesn't work to try to control things that aren't really our concern, and it doesn't work to be too concerned about things that are beyond our control.

I think it was Niebuhr, might have been someone else, who gets credit for the "serenity prayer". Doesn't work to be worked up about things you can't change, and it doesn't work to ignore things you can. May God give us all the wisdom to know the difference.

The goal of this group for years has been reorganizing our mindset about family, deprogramming cultural conditioning, 'reformatting the hard drive' in our brains with a biblical understanding of marriage and family. The talk for the past couple of years has been re whether any of us would ever organize into any kind of practical meatspace community, or we'll just remain a cyber-connected network of like-minded individuals who see each other a couple of times a year at retreats. Anything else is 'above our pay grade' or 'outside our sphere of control' or 'things we cannot change' or however you want to think about it.

I've used this metaphor before: To the extent we're discussing anything other than marriage and family, and maybe community, we are like a bunch of firemen hanging out at the station, playing a card game, talking about whatever randomly comes up in the conversation. Keep the conversation enjoyable, even when we explore our differences, and remember that what we perceive to be true says as at least as much about our perspective and frame-of-reference as it does about the thing we are attempting to describe.