Just needing to vent a little

[Gideon_70]

Sometimes I think I am just about the most screwed up person on the planet.

Like many of us, I discovered plural marriage when I fell in love with someone other than my wife. It was a strange feeling that was not pleasant at all. I was i n love with someone, and I was also in love with someone, and could clearly see how the two could work together. So I did what most people who are not educated on plural marriage does, I allowed others to convince me that I was wrong, that I could not love two women and if I did I was a screwed up psychopath, and that I had to choose one over the other. I made a bad decision and I left my wife of nearly seven years.

It wasn't long before I started to realize just how badly I had screwed up. God got involved, and sort of smacked me in the head.

I eventually found myself back with my wife but with a thousand questions. I did something that I never, EVER thought I could do, and I learned a new level of understanding toward the men who find themselves in this kind of situation. It's horrible, dangerous, and deadly. I also try to never candy-coat the problems it causes or my sin in what I did. I feel forgiven, but I will never fully forgive myself.

My studying plural marriage was the last straw for her. Even though I was trying to get enough knowledge to protect myself, she saw it as threatening her marriage once again. You cannot make a wine bottle for one kind of wine, and stuff a different kind in without a LOT of preparation. When you make promises to another person to have a certain kind of marriage, and then change the rules mid-stream, it's bad and in my case, it was the end of the marriage. Was I wrong to study? No, I don't think so. It doesn't matter that my motivations were good, the end result is that she gave up.

I tried to move on, and get my life together. I made great strides in knowledge and learning about people. I studied and studied, and learned and learned. I also remarried but choose badly, out of loneliness. I had been single for about three years and my hormones were running my brain. It lasted all of a few months. She also married another and moved on. That was nearly ten years ago. I knew that I needed to find peace before I could offer peace. So I stopped dating and took my time. I also took plural marriage and put it down into words, then skimmed the surface and got out of plural marriage for the most part. I removed myself from most of the sites, people, and things I had been involved in. I moved on.

A few years ago I started to worry about our nation. I made plans. My plans were about waffles. They are still about waffles. Eggo waffles are made in Rossville Tennessee. Those waffles are shipped all over the nation. If something were to happen to fuel deliveries in the USA, then the waffles will not make it from the factory to my house. This worried me. I needed to know that I could survive if the waffles were not delivered. So I took a drive.

I actually made a huge circuit of the USA. Ocean to ocean, top to bottom. I found places I liked, and places that scared me. I loved some areas, and others were places I refused to stop even for fuel. I picked two areas that I liked. One is in Oklahoma, and the other is in Kentucky. My reasons were solid and sound, and I stick by them.

I also took leadership roles in my town. I learned to deal with people, manage larger groups, and organize people into effective work forces. After all, work was first and foremost feeding yourself, defending yourself, and keeping the cave clean. I learned how to manage and found that I was well liked, and did a good job of it. I kept it up until I was VP of Production, and if I had wanted it, I was in the position to be the president of the company. But it felt wrong to keep going. I had a lot of reasons, and they were good valid reasons. I decided to wait, and take my time and soon someone who was even more qualified stepped up and wanted the leadership position. I was good with that. Sometimes what you CAN do is not what you NEED to do.

No matter how hard I tried, I was not able to walk away from plural marriage. It followed me in books, magazines, and people. I limited myself to talking about cheating and why men should never do that. I spoke to a lot of women, and quite a few families. I hope that my words helped a few. I used biblical examples in unique ways to keep plural marriage out of it as much as I could, because it shuts people down. With it, I wasn't taken seriously, but by being very careful I hope I helped patch some skins instead of bursting them with new wine.

A few days ago my ex-wife passed away. It was sudden and she left two kids. One is ten and the other is my daughter. My daughter is solid and stable, but the young one... I have no legal rights to him, and the situation is a mess. But what is really messed up is how I feel about the whole thing. It's sad, but I still miss her. I remember all of the good times we had, and the bad times as well. She was a good kid. This was so sudden that it's still beating my brain. I find that I am feeling two things. One is that I feel free again, and the other is that I regret all of the bad things that happened with her. She knew that, and I'm fine with it, but life... life is short... and we should always cherish every moment. For years I've been saying that life is neither good nor bad, just more or less interesting.

Now I find that being alone isn't want I want anymore. I miss people. I miss believers.

 

[pebble]

but I will never fully forgive myself.

You may have to, sir. It's part of the deal, major part, actually.

BTW, that makes 2 ex screwed-up sociopaths in BF.

 

[JustAGuy]

Thanks for sharing. You're a good writer. I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

[ylop]

Hi Gideon.

Thanks for sharing so much, and welcome to Biblical Families.

Well, what to say....

You have failed to be a Biblical husband in three marriages now (two Government marriages and one private). It seems like you realise most of these issues but I think maybe a bit more soul searching is in order about leadership in marriage and responsibility. Your decisions have affected three women and their families, and you were the one in charge. Have you taken full ownership for all three situations yet? Maybe you have, I don't know, just trying to help here.

Sure plural marriage is biblical and correct but you will need to go into it from a position of strength as its much harder than monogamy.

Do you have an opportunity here to redeem yourself with the two children from your ex-wife?

Thank you again for sharing and I wish you a full and blessed life.

Regards,

ylop

 

[FollowingHim]

Gideon

Thankyou for sharing with us. This is a very painful situation, I don't really have anything to say that would help. It always saddens me how the false teaching on marriage in the church can contribute to people making poor choices that could have been avoided - and once you have one problem it tends to breed more. Like childbirth, once you have one unnatural intervention it can kick off a chain reaction of intervention until you have a c-section on your hands... I wish you'd had solid teaching on marriage all your life, I wish we all had.

God always has a plan, however much a mess we end up in His plans are flexible and He has a new path in mind for us to take out of it. I pray that God will give you the wisdom to see where to go now - what to do about the children, and any future marriage He may have in mind for you.

Samuel

 

[Gideon_70]

Gideon

It always saddens me how the false teaching on marriage in the church can contribute to people making poor choices that could have been avoided - and once you have one problem it tends to breed more.

Samuel

Yes, it does. I acted on what I was taught in the first marriage, and it led to the failure on the "informal," marriage. The first two were before Bfree and I was researching then. Hard to believe that was 15 years ago.

This is why I tried to talk about PM as much as I did, to kind of account for my actions and help others not make the same mistakes.

 

[Gideon_70]

Thanks for sharing. You're a good writer. I'm so sorry for your loss.

Thank you.

 

[Gideon_70]

Hi Gideon.

Thanks for sharing so much, and welcome to Biblical Families.

Thank you.

You have failed to be a Biblical husband in three marriages now (two Government marriages and one private). ... Have you taken full ownership for all three situations yet?

Thanks for the kick, but yes, I have. I'm feeling a little down right now because of recent events, and sort of wishing that things had gone a different way, in a way... but we do not have slaves in this nation, nor are woves captives. They are thinking living breathing women who have their own minds, their own personalities, and their own wants and desires. I can control what I do, but I must rely on them keeping their promises to me... and occasionally they choose not to. It is their choice, and they must make it.

But a man can contribute to those decisions. I know I did when I choose to leave instead of talking. I had a choice. I could have talked to her, told her what was going on, and worked it out. Instead, I relied on bad teaching, lack of knowledge, and a general fear of women that seems to be ingrained into us from childhood and reinforced by everything from television to newspaper ads. I screwed up, yes, I did.

But I look back and say, "What would I have done then with the knowledge I have today," and the the answer is drastically different. Night and day different. The me then made the mistakes, the me now would not. This is why I refuse to hide by screwups from others, even when it gets me spit on.

Sure plural marriage is biblical and correct but you will need to go into it from a position of strength as its much harder than monogamy.

I heard this with Bfree and disagreed with it then, as much as I do now. Jesus did not have captive disciples, and they followed him because they wanted to. Ketuba, the oldest form of marriage document, are negotiations between the man and the woman. She is bound by her words, as is he. Marriage is what they negotiate.

If/when your wife grants you authority over her, and it is HER choice to do that, then it also grants you an equal measure of responsibility. You are just as wrong when you do not act with authority as she is when she steps out from under your authority. But you can only act with what measure she has granted, and if you act where she has not granted you authority over her, then you are wrong to try to control her. She is not your property, she is a gift that you are to care for within the limits she has granted. Sounds strange, right? Try to remember that she is a real living breathing PERSON.

The bible grants veto powers to the husband, and I agree with that. But using those veto powers will quickly make enemies of both the person that the promise was made to, and the women who you are stepping on. I understand that is it necessary sometimes, but it is a last resort and should be treated as one. This idea that I occasionally encounter (NOT saying you feel this way) that women are brainless walking vaginas, just makes me shake my head... because some women will occasionally want that kind of relationship... but most of them want someone that will work WITH them, and with whom they can work with, to advance a family or just enjoy life. Granted it is nice when a lady submits to you, but it is, and always will be HER CHOICE - even her choice to NOT submit and yes, even her choice to walk out. I can be responsible for my choices, but when she leaves, it is not my choice, it's hers.

My needs are much simpler today... I want someone that likes to weed a garden, and doesn't mind helping outside. I prefer someone who is not into makeup, and who thinks that a walk in the woods is an amazing thing. Not a really complicated list. And to answer your question... I purposely took over ten years to figure out what I did wrong. Now, schools out and I need to see what the real world application of this knowledge is like, while enjoying some really awesome times with a nice lady.

[/quote]

 

[ylop]

Hi Gideon.

Thanks for the follow up post.

I wasn't trying to kick you, rather to challenge you as I thought maybe you were looking for that in your vent. It seemed to me in your description of events that you had not fully taken blame for all events, particularly as there were almost no details about the second (informal) wife that you left. In your narrative she is simply a postscript, whereas she is a human being with a life that has been permanently impacted by the events you described.

I hope you are able to do something to assist the children and suggest that might be a higher priority than finding a new wife.

I am not writing from personal perfection here, just sharing thoughts.

Best wishes,

ylop

 

[Courting4Life]

Sure plural marriage is biblical and correct but you will need to go into it from a position of strength as its much harder than monogamy.

I heard this with Bfree and disagreed with it then, as much as I do now. Jesus did not have captive disciples, and they followed him because they wanted to. Ketuba, the oldest form of marriage document, are negotiations between the man and the woman. She is bound by her words, as is he. Marriage is what they negotiate.

If/when your wife grants you authority over her, and it is HER choice to do that...
[/quote][/quote]

Welcome Gideon. I may have misinterpreted what ylop wrote (I'm sure you'll let me know), but I didn't take his suggestion about men ensuring they are in a position of strength to mean that he thought women to be our captives, slaves, or mindless property.

I agree with you Gideon that a woman is just as much a party in marriage. What I took from ylop's writing is to secure your own foundation. So many men have dove right in, giving chase to women and striving to attend to their every desire. I applaud the time you took to work on your own foundation. Focusing on our own relationship with the Creator, allowing Him to lead us, is the best way to build a solid foundation. It allows us to be in that position of strength by shining the light cultivated within.

Psalm 37:4
Delight yourself in the Lord;
And He will give you the desires of your heart.

One of the subjects that has been discussed in depth on this forum is that of a wife being submitted to her husband. Personally, I found that the preceding scripture has shed more light on that subject than many others though not at first glance. As we delight ourselves in Him, we come to know His heart, desires, His Spirit. In doing so, His desires become our desires. We are as His bride, and He is the utmost example of solidarity, strength, and righteousness. His Word,His Spirit, endures forever.

I've heard it preached that "if you love God you'll get everything you want. Shiny, expensive materials. That's the meaning of Psalm 37:4!!!" I disagree with that presentation. I believe that He has made the way for me and my house, laid out the provision along the path He created, and as we come to know His heart's desire for us and come into agreement with it we will find ourselves in the place of those desires. They have already been given.

We are not the same, but we are of his likeness. The more like Him, the stronger our foundation. Love, not lust. Patient, not hasty. Kind, not cruel. Wise, not foolish. All attributes that a woman may truly be delighted for her husband to exhibit. I think this a part of the foundation for a woman to be a submitted wife. Yes, it is her choice... and yes there is preparation on her part... but we have our preparation as well. The more submitted we are to our Creator the stronger we are. The more submitted a woman is to her husband the stronger she is... though in correlation to her husband's submission to our Creator. Don't take my meaning to be that a single woman or one married to an unbeliever can not be strong, they may... but not as strong as they may with a husband that is submitted to the Creator and caring for her in like manner.

Sure plural marriage is biblical and correct but you will need to go into it from a position of strength as its much harder than monogamy.

I don't know the future. I can't say what I will or won't be doing a year from now. I can prepare for the possibilities though. Prepare the way. Out of love prepare ourselves, provisions for the existing and potential family, relationships with family and friends etc... Be strong.