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General Lies I Believed

Shiloh.F

Member
Male
The following is basically me thinking out loud as I process the truths God has been trying to teach me over several years, and recently used this ministry to confirm. It might be helpful to know I come from a evangelical nondenominational background. I pray it is profitable for someone else wrestling with the same truths.


-Men/women are equal and opposite sides of the same coin of God’s nature

This sounds so obviously correct based on a casual reading of the creation story, culturally acceptable, and defendable with scripture. I never even thought to question this concept. After all, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Gal 3:28

However several of the verses routinely highlighted here have forced me to reevaluate this assumption. 1 Cor 11:3 is one clear example;

3But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ isGod.”


Using this as a cross reference Genesis 1 and 2 falls into place differently. The creation story builds from the basics of separating light and dark to the creation of man in God’s own image, with a mandate to subdue and rule the earth. His very final act though is to create woman to help him. One way to look at this is that man is the iron scepter meant to command and conquer, while woman is the crown jewel that completes the scepter and gives it beauty. This agrees with 1 Cor 11:7-9


“For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.”


Peter specifies the roll and outward ministry of Christian women as such,


Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. 3Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— 4rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the [a]incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. 5For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, 6as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror. 1 Pet 3:1-6


-Enjoying a woman’s beauty is sin

This is something that the Pharisee in me has really struggled with my whole life. Because I believed that attraction was lust, and “whoever looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery with her already in his heart.”, (Mat 5:28) I thought that anytime I thought a woman was pretty I was guilty of adultery. This lead to DECADES of guilt and frustration. Eventually the general idea that attraction to beauty is different than lust, and that God made woman attractive on purpose and I shouldn’t hate myself, (or them), for finding them attractive started to come together, but I had no verse or biblical concept to counter my understanding of the above verse.

Until while studying Song of Songs I found this verse; (if those who read Hebrew feel I am miss reading this please correct me, I can only take the translation as it is.)


The Beloved and His Friends

13Return, return, O Shulamite;
Return, return, that we may look upon you!


I was surprised. Here it seems the groomsmen at the wedding think the bride is hot, are freely talking about wanting to get another look at her, and the groom himself is right there with them! This would mean there is a clear separation between coveting/lust, and simply appreciating beauty.

Then after reviewing the verses referenced here for defining adultery as always and only involving a married woman, I realized that what Jesus said in Mathew 5:28 didn’t condemn me for having an adulterous heart. If anything these two verses together would make it seem that any attraction I felt for a healthy single woman meant that everything was simply working as intended!



-monogamy is God’s ideal

This one is a little more nuanced, as whether it is/ was His ideal is different than whether He simply allows it, though the arguments are similar to those for polygamy in general. One side says it can’t be because God never specifies it, the other side says it is because He never said it is not. Right now as I read through the scriptures, a man having multiple marriages seems to be an assumed default. One God NEVER sees the need to condemn, in the Old or New Testament. I also don’t give credibility anymore to the argument that polygamy in the Bible, “never worked out good”. Two reasons for this; 1) for every negative example,(imagined or real), there is another with no recorded issues. Think of Abraham and Gideon as examples of this. 2) the negative examples simply don’t prove anything. Just because sinful humans fail to live out a relationship well doesn’t mean the relationship is fundamentally flawed. Monogamous marriage is a perfect example of this. As someone else has said, perhaps before the fall everything would be perfectly monogamous, but it doesn’t really say.



THINGS THEY SAY BUT DON’T REALLY MEAN:


-children are a blessing

You will hear plenty of ppl say that children are a blessing, and even quote Psa 127, “children are a heritage from the Lord”, but their heart is not truly different from the culture right now. I have known many professing Christians, men and women, who do not want kids. The ones who do only want 1 or 2 because anything more than that is “too much” or “too hard”. There are a few weird ones that go big, mostly in the homeschool movement, but these are the exceptions.


-divorce is wrong

This might be the biggest mess of all. It’s assumed that everyone knows divorce is wrong, so those that have been feel shamed and outcast, but it is so common “for any reason “ that no pastor truly wants to preach hard truths on the subject. So there is no real effort in or outside the pulpit to understand and teach truth, so everyone just walks in the way of the world, and families pay the price.


-the man is the spiritual leader of the family

At least in most nondenominational churches I’ve been to this idea is at least given lip service, even occasionally taught, mostly because of perceived passive or disengaged fathers. The line usually goes” *sigh* yes the husband is technically in charge, but we are told to submit to one another, and you men really need to step up anyway.” Which is not a technically incorrect statement, but sorely misrepresents scripture. It is still shocking to me the level of complete submission God calls our wives to, however it wasn’t until I accepted it that I truly understood the level of responsibility I had.
 
Those are some major errors common in the Evangelical world. I've heard them all my life, and also use to believe them.

Regarding Matthew 5:28

It is very important to realize that the Bible always defines adultery by the marital status of the woman. Adultery means (1) a man having relations with another man's wife, and/or (2) a married or betrothed woman having relations with a man other than her husband.

Also, the Greek word translated "woman" in Matt. 5:28 is the Greek word for "wife" as well. It frequently is translated as "wife" and really should be translated that way in this passage.

Since the Lord Jesus Christ called lust "adultery of the heart", and adultery ALWAYS involved a wife (not a single woman), He clearly meant that we are not to lust after other men's wives.

Basically, I take it as Christ is restating the tenth commandment. Do not covet your neighbor's wife.

I don't take it as "never appreciate the beauty of a woman". I think it is ok to appreciate the beauty of a single woman, and to desire to have her as your wife (whether or not you are already married).

I think it also ok to appreciate the beauty of a married woman, knowing and acknowledging that God has given her to your brother and that she belongs to him, not you. You should not desire to make her yours.
 
The following is basically me thinking out loud as I process the truths God has been trying to teach me over several years, and recently used this ministry to confirm. It might be helpful to know I come from a evangelical nondenominational background. I pray it is profitable for someone else wrestling with the same truths.


-Men/women are equal and opposite sides of the same coin of God’s nature

This sounds so obviously correct based on a casual reading of the creation story, culturally acceptable, and defendable with scripture. I never even thought to question this concept. After all, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Gal 3:28

However several of the verses routinely highlighted here have forced me to reevaluate this assumption. 1 Cor 11:3 is one clear example;

3But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ isGod.”


Using this as a cross reference Genesis 1 and 2 falls into place differently. The creation story builds from the basics of separating light and dark to the creation of man in God’s own image, with a mandate to subdue and rule the earth. His very final act though is to create woman to help him. One way to look at this is that man is the iron scepter meant to command and conquer, while woman is the crown jewel that completes the scepter and gives it beauty. This agrees with 1 Cor 11:7-9


“For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.”


Peter specifies the roll and outward ministry of Christian women as such,


Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. 3Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— 4rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the [a]incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. 5For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, 6as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror. 1 Pet 3:1-6


-Enjoying a woman’s beauty is sin

This is something that the Pharisee in me has really struggled with my whole life. Because I believed that attraction was lust, and “whoever looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery with her already in his heart.”, (Mat 5:28) I thought that anytime I thought a woman was pretty I was guilty of adultery. This lead to DECADES of guilt and frustration. Eventually the general idea that attraction to beauty is different than lust, and that God made woman attractive on purpose and I shouldn’t hate myself, (or them), for finding them attractive started to come together, but I had no verse or biblical concept to counter my understanding of the above verse.

Until while studying Song of Songs I found this verse; (if those who read Hebrew feel I am miss reading this please correct me, I can only take the translation as it is.)


The Beloved and His Friends

13Return, return, O Shulamite;
Return, return, that we may look upon you!


I was surprised. Here it seems the groomsmen at the wedding think the bride is hot, are freely talking about wanting to get another look at her, and the groom himself is right there with them! This would mean there is a clear separation between coveting/lust, and simply appreciating beauty.

Then after reviewing the verses referenced here for defining adultery as always and only involving a married woman, I realized that what Jesus said in Mathew 5:28 didn’t condemn me for having an adulterous heart. If anything these two verses together would make it seem that any attraction I felt for a healthy single woman meant that everything was simply working as intended!



-monogamy is God’s ideal

This one is a little more nuanced, as whether it is/ was His ideal is different than whether He simply allows it, though the arguments are similar to those for polygamy in general. One side says it can’t be because God never specifies it, the other side says it is because He never said it is not. Right now as I read through the scriptures, a man having multiple marriages seems to be an assumed default. One God NEVER sees the need to condemn, in the Old or New Testament. I also don’t give credibility anymore to the argument that polygamy in the Bible, “never worked out good”. Two reasons for this; 1) for every negative example,(imagined or real), there is another with no recorded issues. Think of Abraham and Gideon as examples of this. 2) the negative examples simply don’t prove anything. Just because sinful humans fail to live out a relationship well doesn’t mean the relationship is fundamentally flawed. Monogamous marriage is a perfect example of this. As someone else has said, perhaps before the fall everything would be perfectly monogamous, but it doesn’t really say.



THINGS THEY SAY BUT DON’T REALLY MEAN:


-children are a blessing

You will hear plenty of ppl say that children are a blessing, and even quote Psa 127, “children are a heritage from the Lord”, but their heart is not truly different from the culture right now. I have known many professing Christians, men and women, who do not want kids. The ones who do only want 1 or 2 because anything more than that is “too much” or “too hard”. There are a few weird ones that go big, mostly in the homeschool movement, but these are the exceptions.


-divorce is wrong

This might be the biggest mess of all. It’s assumed that everyone knows divorce is wrong, so those that have been feel shamed and outcast, but it is so common “for any reason “ that no pastor truly wants to preach hard truths on the subject. So there is no real effort in or outside the pulpit to understand and teach truth, so everyone just walks in the way of the world, and families pay the price.


-the man is the spiritual leader of the family

At least in most nondenominational churches I’ve been to this idea is at least given lip service, even occasionally taught, mostly because of perceived passive or disengaged fathers. The line usually goes” *sigh* yes the husband is technically in charge, but we are told to submit to one another, and you men really need to step up anyway.” Which is not a technically incorrect statement, but sorely misrepresents scripture. It is still shocking to me the level of complete submission God calls our wives to, however it wasn’t until I accepted it that I truly understood the level of responsibility I had.

I also really appreciate your comments on topics that people give lip service to, but don't really believe such as children being a blessing, divorce, and male headship.

Yep, yep, and yep

Over the years, I've mainly attended fairly conservative churches that have a lot of larger home schooling families. Even in these churches, I'll often hear somewhat negative comments about families with more than two or three children.

My own dear "boomer" parents (who raised three kids) tend to make negative comments about people who have more than a couple children, or who homeschool. This is in spite of the fact that my mom was child number seven in her family. I'm glad my grandparents didn't stop after two or three children.

Churches are also full of people who divorced for un-biblical reasons, and then remarried anyway. Churches can live with that, but cannot even comprehend an upright man being the husband of more than one woman at the same time.

Male headship is undermined by talk of "servant leadership".

Yes, Jesus served us by washing the disciple's feet, and by taking our place on the cross. That doesn't change the fact that Jesus Christ is King, Master, and Lord. We tremble before Him. Husband's get very little honor.
 
You will hear plenty of ppl say that children are a blessing....There are a few weird ones that go big

Why am I weird for having a lot of kids? This was perfectly normal for thousands of years until the sexual perversion of childless and recreational sex came along in the 1960's and that was followed up by the slaughter of the unborn since the 1970's.

But I'm the weird one? o_O
 
Why am I weird for having a lot of kids? This was perfectly normal for thousands of years until the sexual perversion of childless and recreational sex came along in the 1960's and that was followed up by the slaughter of the unborn since the 1970's.

But I'm the weird one? o_O
You are definitely not normal.
For which all of us are grateful.
 
Why am I weird for having a lot of kids? This was perfectly normal for thousands of years until the sexual perversion of childless and recreational sex came along in the 1960's and that was followed up by the slaughter of the unborn since the 1970's.

But I'm the weird one? o_O


Normal just means usual. Not always bright idea (lemmimgs and cliffs).

You have right attitude and that's what matter.
 
Why am I weird for having a lot of kids? This was perfectly normal for thousands of years until the sexual perversion of childless and recreational sex came along in the 1960's and that was followed up by the slaughter of the unborn since the 1970's.

But I'm the weird one? o_O
I’ve got quite comfortable being weird. The normies all act so strange.
 
Why am I weird for having a lot of kids? This was perfectly normal for thousands of years until the sexual perversion of childless and recreational sex came along in the 1960's and that was followed up by the slaughter of the unborn since the 1970's.

But I'm the weird one? o_O


It’s crazy how things get twisted isn’t it? We are aliens in a foreign land though. For the record I came from one of those weird, big, home schooling families. Took my drivers test in a 15-passenger van, and parallel parked it too!;)
It is written “that there is nothing new under the sun”, so I’m willing to bet this is not the first century a rich and selfish culture has looked down on large families.
 
You are definitely not normal.
For which all of us are grateful.
I prefer to use average there. Because I think mamas of many are perfectly normal!! ....just less common now a days. ;)
 
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