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male maturity?

steve

steve

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
i hope that no one minds that i have pulled this post out of the thread that it was in and have given it it's own thread. i found it very well written and it encourages us men to focus on the ways in which we need to be the leaders of our families.
Graced By God said:
The thing is that when maturity and responsibality are addressed to men they're usually buried in other topic threads and 'touched on' with kid gloves. When maturity and responsibality are addressed to women the post is usually blatant, bold, spelled out, highlighted etc. It just seems very odd that women are held to some very high standards but men not so much (at least in print). It's quite discouraging.
Sincerely,
Donnag
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I too have run across this tendency in several Christian churches in America. I too think that men need to be addressed just as much as women if not even more so since they are the leaders and initiators. I think women in general have a tendency to be more "responders" to their husband's love, leading and guidance. (Though some may be stiff necked just like some men can be). I have this thinking because of my own life and experiences and because of the verse 1 John 4:19 which says, "We love Him (God) because He first loved us."

I also want to add and comment about my thoughts on men and their roles to their wives. John 21:17 says The third time He (Jesus) said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He (Peter) said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep." And lastly Ephesians 5:29 says "After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church--" I believe that what is desperately needed today is for men to think about "looking after" and "feeding" their wives which means that they need to be aware of their needs and help to meet their needs first hand. Feeding takes "observation, initiation and action". It also means feeding them and washing them with the Word of God. Yes, we as women can feed ourselves the Word of God but I think that there is something special and needed about a man "feeding" his wife the Words of God just like Jesus wanted Peter to feed other people the Word of God.

Ephesians 5:29 also mentions "caring" and some translations say "cherishes". I think that this is the other element missing in many relationships. Is the man really cherishing his wife like God values and cherishes us? Does the man view the woman as "priceless" and "valuable"? Does he take time to "listen" to her "heart"? Does he build her up with words and deeds? Is the woman the man's first love or did some other activity(fishing, sports, big boy toys, etc.) inch its way into first place? Just as David looked out after his sheep and cared for them and protected them, I think men today need to take the role of shepherding their women seriously. Women need to be valued, looked out after, protected, and nourished in soul and spirit by their men. Women need a confident, caring shepherd to lead them.
Grace and peace to all who read this!
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"I too have run across this tendency in several Christian churches in America."

I remember a topic where feminism was being discussed and mention was made of the matriarchal nature of our culture rather then a patriarchal system. Even though men often have the best jobs and better pay it was mentioned that frequently the wives are pulling the strings behind the scenes especially in the churches. Perhaps this is the result of lazy, weak, or ignorant men. Most of the role models for men are hardly what they should be, and there are few teaching young men how to be a biblical husband (patriarch). When I see patriarchy discussed (outside of BF) there are usually many using negative terms about it, ranting as if it were evil. From my perspective it seems that it would literally take an act of God to correct this and raise up a generation of men that understand and apply what is actually taught in the scriptures. Maybe we should add this very thing to our prayers. I know that each of us can do our part, but it will take a lot more than what we can do to make a dent in the damage time has done to Biblical Marriage. We have to reach the youth to accomplish this.

I think there is a very good reason that men are commanded to love their wives...quite possibly because at times it may be a difficult thing for a man to do...and perhaps women are commanded to obey their husbands because at times it may be a difficult thing for them to do...

Jesus sanctified the church with the Word, should a husband do any less for his wife?

Ephesians 5:25-28 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

Tip for wives...if you want to make it easier for your husband to love you try to be a little more obedient.
Tip for husbands...if you want to make it easier for your wife to be a little more obedient try to show her a little more love.
 
Scarecrow said:
I think there is a very good reason that men are commanded to love their wives...quite possibly because at times it may be a difficult thing for a man to do...and perhaps women are commanded to obey their husbands because at times it may be a difficult thing for them to do...
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Excellent points, Scarecrow!

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Scarecrow wrote,
From my perspective it seems that it would literally take an act of God to correct this and raise up a generation of men that understand and apply what is actually taught in the scriptures. Maybe we should add this very thing to our prayers.
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I agree 100%. And maybe we men who are associated with BF are one manifestation of the beginning of that act of God.

If men will be real MEN (according to the Bible's ideal, not Hollywood's) our society would have far fewer problems. Sadly, each generation seems to have fewer men who become even nominal "christians," let alone men who become real men of God. I fear that it is too late for the generation that is now in its teen years; we must reach the children somehow. But how do we do that when so many children either have no father at all, or have a father who doesn't care?

I, for one, will certainly make it a matter of prayer as you suggested, Scarecrow. Hopefully, many others will join us in this.
 
A very simple matter needs our utmost attention.

Satan knows what makes us tick.

In the garden it was the woman that Satan approached, not Adam. Why is this? Because the woman is the weaker vessel. She was made from him, but is not equal to him. Satan knows if he can corrupt the woman and her role that God assigned her then it is likely that he will be able to corrupt the man and their family too.

This may not explain everything, but I think it should be observed that many of the things discussed about woman are due to the attacks of Satan on them and their role in the family - his primary targets.

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
 
Why has a thread which started as a way to encourage men to be mature, been allowed to deviate to 'why women are wrong'? yet again???

I really don't understand why women want to be a part of your religion when they are constantly being told how morally weak they are.

I find it really distressing.

B
 
Deviate...why women are wrong...??? I don't know how you get that from my comment. From a Christian perspective (this is Biblical Families after all) a mature Christian man will make every effort to protect and correct his wife/wives which in turn protects him and his family. Eve was deceived, but Adam bears the guilt for the episode because he did not act as her head and correct/protect her. My comment was aimed at the weakness of Adam, not Eve, I thought that was obvious. Realizing the tactics of our enemies is important if we are to battle against them. I realize you are not Christian and apparently have a Wonder Woman type of capability that many women do not have...so please consider my frame of reference before getting all upset.
 
Scarecrow, you mention Adam once, most of your post was about how susceptible women are to Satan...I have no idea what your Wonder Woman comment was about but the creator of Woman Woman was what would be, classed as a Poly man, and based her on both of his partners, so for that (unexpected) compliment, I thank you!!

Bels
 
My comment was about the tactics of Satan and that we need to be aware of them and appropriately deal with them. This has everything to do with the topic of "Male Maturity" - would an immature male even be aware of this or even care? From a Christian perspective we need to understand that one of Satan's primary targets is married women. This being the case many of the topics and ensuing discussions will be about the difficulties that women can have or that they can cause. Therefore it should be no surprise to see the majority of topics and comments be about women as a result. Get it? They are at the top of Satan's hit list, and as mature males with wives we need to be aware of it and deal appropriately with it. We also need to post comments like these so that those that haven't yet come to realize the situation have the opportunity to see it.

...and you're welcome, your strength is an asset to you.
 
Scarecrow said:
Get it? .
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No. I don't. I think the idea that women are more vulnerable or, alternatively, the Top of Satan's Hit List is positively Medievalist. The kind of thinking Christine de Pizan wrote against some 700 years ago is still alive and well. Married women....ahead of people born to drug dealers, Mafia Dons, fascist dictators, corrupt nobles or, politicians.

Nope, married women, who along with having to deal with everything else she has to do, has to battle Satan, who obviously has so little else to occupy his time, what's a little war, crime, child abuse and murder when instead you can spend your time winding up some poor hausfrau.

Must be the Wonder Woman in me, or maybe, as someone has already said, may be it is the Satan, but I don't get that, don't get it at all.

B
 
And just in case anyone is assuming I came on the thread just to provoke, well, not true. I myself am trying to understand the qualities I am looking tor in a mature man, having experienced and witnessed the destruction an immature man can cause to women and children. I want to learn and seek opinion but instead.............well.

B
 
bels, i hear ya.
do i have clear-cut answers? no, i am still figuring out some of the questions.
but this much i have come to understand:
1) it is the intention of the One who created me that the man take the responsibility (as opposed to the right) to lead, protect, and provide for his family.
2) leadership can be either control-based (seeing my wife as weak and in need of my control) or empowerment-based (seeing the potential in my wife and assisting her in experiencing it)
3) we are all, in some ways, weaker than we could be. it is not about who is weakest, in some areas she is stronger. leadership based on the percieved weakness of the other party is not, in my opinion, going to give the best results in the long run.

random related thoughts: we boys carry books and open doors for girls/women not because we think that they are too weak, but because we have this pathetic desire to be noticed favourably by them. :D you really have more control over us than you think. (there might be some altruism involved, but i aint a-gonna claim it)
after many years of haid-scratching i finally realized why i wanted to be driving the car instead of riding shotgun. it is because i have this intrinsic desire to protect my family, and i do not feel that i can effectively do it from the passenger seat. i trust my wife's driving and when i am tired i choose to let her drive as the best protection for us.

i hope that this helps :)
 
Thank you Steve, it was very helpful.

Bels
 
Oh, Bels, at the risk of sounding like a former leader who should have been impeached, "I feel your pain." If I am "getting you" even the tiniest bit, what you want is a man who is a man but doesn't have to diminish you in order to be a man. Steve and I have spent years wrestling with the Word, each other (only figuratively, mind you, ;) ) God, corporate models of leadership, living in other cultures and countries, abuse in our lives, abuse in the lives of others, you name it. And when he says he is still scratchin' his haid and saying he's still figuring out the questions, I can only say that it is a marvelous thing to be married to someone who can both rest on timeless principles,not be afraid to not know, and be willing to be stretched by His Creator in order to grow into what has been lost and restore it to others..

Your post inspired a wondrous and passionate conversation between us that I think served to crystallize some of what we have come to discover, but couldn't exactly articulate. (One of those "better felt than telt" kinds of things...)

Actually, I think there are only two motivators for leadership, fear and faith. And by that I mean, when you are fear based in your leadership style, much of your energy will go toward control and making sure that those in your sphere for whom you must give account don't ever make you look bad, because what others think of you subtly takes the place of what God thinks of you. Looking like you have it all together becomes the focus and the mission, and God help the person, either from within or with out who upsets that balance. By contrast, when you are secure as a leader, truly walking in and by faith, and things are functioning with a blend of strength and empowerment, because you are secure in your own skin, you have the energy to lead, even sometimes with firmness, and truly enjoy helping those around you become the selves they were designed to be in the first place. That, my dear, is worth holding out for. :)
 
Can you get a witness?

Yup. AMEN! :D
 
I agree! Couldn't have said it better myself (but I tried!). Confidence and security in leadership lived out daily with love, kindness and patience is always a good thing to follow.
 
Confidence and security in leadership lived out daily with love, kindness and patience is always a good thing to follow.
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This is a good description of mature leadership. What does it look like in operation, when there is unrest, resistance or rebellion in the family?
How does such a leader lead when family doesn't respond favorably?
 
Good question John. I would say with a LOT of prayer! It's a big responsability being a leader and there has to be a balanced approach, or there will be abuse. Isabella mentioned that this thread was started to encourage men to be mature. Doesn't it take time to mature?
 
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