This was prompted by a comment (thanks, Steve) from another thread:
It seems as though the 'cult' label has become almost as ubiquitous, depending on the forum, as "conspiracy theorist," or "right-wing extremist," or homophobe/transphobe/et-al-phobe among the Worldly.
The common denominator, if I may be so bold, seems to be, "I can't DEFEND my beliefs, but I AM very offended that you challenge them," and, since I innately recognize they may well be INDEFENSIBLE, I'd prefer just to censor any possible alternative "free speech." Especially in a 'private forum,' which - if it's not already obvious - boils down now to EVERYWHERE in a Fascist State, by definition. Orwell was right: 'Groupthink' is mandatory, and even the language is being re-written to make an alternative thought even impossible to express ('Double-think,' then 'Newspeak.')
The purpose, and very CONCEPT of 'midrash' - in what Paul knew as the Hebrew-mindset of the Messiah (Phil. 2:5) - was that "iron sharpens iron." We learn by answering tough questions, defending our faith, and the reasons why we believe. In short, by teaching.
If you can't DEFEND your beliefs - why have them? And if you can't express them, "in season, and out," to "give account" to others for what you believe, and why, then you certainly aren't speaking "boldly!" - as we "ought to speak."
Admittedly, it really bugs me when people are hypocritically dogmatic (e.g., the "anti-election ballot riggers" prattle about "democracy" while they destroy even the bedrock concept) and proclaim "can't we all just get along," but the only way that can happen is if YOU stuff a sock in it!
OK, well, here - maybe just a li'l bit, but only in the Ghetto...'till we don't like what you say, even there.
I continue to contend that to avoid "tough topics" - especially when I believe, personally, that they are ABSOLUTELY central to an understanding of Scripture that underlies our perception and observance of what constitutes 'marriage' - is not only short-sighted, but ultimately self-defeating. Yes, the 'moderation' is - on occasion, at least - less onerous now than some of us 'old-timers' remember from days gone by, but to say that we will allow only a BIT of iron-sharpening, up until when the Karens can't handle the Truth, is to coddle milk-drinking. We can, and must, do better. At least HERE, in the Ghetto. IMHO.
I agree with Steve, too, that there is a right way to do it. I will confess to having grown short-tempered with endless vain repetition of tired, multiply-debunked arguments. I generally now just simply move on, unless asked directly, and honestly. Then, rest assured, you will receive an honest answer. And I can BACK it UP with Scripture, too. "Your mileage may vary," but we can have an actual discussion. Maybe. (Right, Zec?)
And, most of us will admit that, while a few 'newbies' may read a thousand pages or so of old threads, the vast majority don't. They ask questions. That has been the way humankind has ALWAYS been, as any parent will appreciate.
Example: (I'll put in a link.*) "Sun-god day." Like it or not, even the etymology of the word reveals its derivation. And here's my clarification - IN this thread, IN this ghetto: You can worship any day you want. Rest, too. Hell, not at all even, but each of us will be responsible for our own choices. But if I am ASKED my understanding from Scripture, again, rest assured, I can give it. If you're not convinced - fine. It may get censored; NOT so fine, but we're used to what Big Brother is conditioning his slaves to by now anyway, right?
But in a thread where the topic was a specific, recorded midrash, which INCLUDED what I contend is one of the most undeniable, "bright red flashing light" TAGS about the issue (it's called an atbash in Hebrew - listen to the recording if you care) that proof text sets up the point I was making. It wasn't even the main point in itself. Yet, some are 'offended', and want to focus on what I contend is a singular, out-of-context, twisting of a phrase that doesn't even mean what those so readily offended claim it does. And it was already debunked -- multiple-fold -- in the recording. Again, I don't make people listen (Zec proudly proclaims he WON'T; Samuel can't be bothered to spend the time: Fine. But leave those alone who would CHOOSE to try to understand more than a sound-bite.)
I have NEVER said (and would not!) that those who fail to "set apart" His seventh-day Sabbath are 'going to hell.' But He says to do whatever He says to do (read it for yourself) and that it carries a blessing. And the Bereans are mature enough to search that out for themselves, too, but I'm happy to provide easy pointers (they are ALL over the Bible.)
To summarize:
I have no problem with spirited, honest discussion. It is VITAL to strengthening our faith, and our fellowship!
Yes, old arguments repeated ad nauseam do become tiring,. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.
But - if you can't defend what you believe, why bother? And it's CERTAINLY not something that you have enough trust in, therefore, to act (because it does!) as though your very life and soul depend on it! "If you love Me, keep My commands."
I contend that it's fair to ask, "which commands?"
My answer -- "as for me and my house, we will serve YHVH." And that means ALL of 'em. All that we can. Which obviously, isn't "all 613" - or whatever - and it NEVER HAS BEEN. (No, that's not 'dispensationalism,' it's Reality.) Men can do women things, or priest things, or king things. Don't sweat it. And you can't "sacrifice" where there IS no place to do it, so don't sweat that, either.
We don't have to all 'agree' on everything. Not even marriage. But if you can't even TALK about it, or defend your convictions - you are a Totalitarian, whether it's of the socialist, or Marxist, or fascist, or whatever economic faction. There are plenty of fora you'll feel welcome on - from X to TikTok to Instagram to TwoFacebook, to CNN and MSNBC. Go there and wallow in the Enforced Unity.
But please let "iron sharpen iron." At least a bit, at least in the Ghetto. 'They' certainly intend to shut that down eventually anyway.
--------------------------------
* the link: https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/the-golden-calf-is-so-yesterday.17192
The fact that YHVH dramatically emphasizes the importance of His sabbaths is undeniable, but it is only an element of the midrash itself, which has to do with 'golden calves' -- then and NOW -- and Aaron's culpability. Again, which applies today, too.
It seems as though the 'cult' label has become almost as ubiquitous, depending on the forum, as "conspiracy theorist," or "right-wing extremist," or homophobe/transphobe/et-al-phobe among the Worldly.
The common denominator, if I may be so bold, seems to be, "I can't DEFEND my beliefs, but I AM very offended that you challenge them," and, since I innately recognize they may well be INDEFENSIBLE, I'd prefer just to censor any possible alternative "free speech." Especially in a 'private forum,' which - if it's not already obvious - boils down now to EVERYWHERE in a Fascist State, by definition. Orwell was right: 'Groupthink' is mandatory, and even the language is being re-written to make an alternative thought even impossible to express ('Double-think,' then 'Newspeak.')
The purpose, and very CONCEPT of 'midrash' - in what Paul knew as the Hebrew-mindset of the Messiah (Phil. 2:5) - was that "iron sharpens iron." We learn by answering tough questions, defending our faith, and the reasons why we believe. In short, by teaching.
If you can't DEFEND your beliefs - why have them? And if you can't express them, "in season, and out," to "give account" to others for what you believe, and why, then you certainly aren't speaking "boldly!" - as we "ought to speak."
Admittedly, it really bugs me when people are hypocritically dogmatic (e.g., the "anti-election ballot riggers" prattle about "democracy" while they destroy even the bedrock concept) and proclaim "can't we all just get along," but the only way that can happen is if YOU stuff a sock in it!
OK, well, here - maybe just a li'l bit, but only in the Ghetto...'till we don't like what you say, even there.
I continue to contend that to avoid "tough topics" - especially when I believe, personally, that they are ABSOLUTELY central to an understanding of Scripture that underlies our perception and observance of what constitutes 'marriage' - is not only short-sighted, but ultimately self-defeating. Yes, the 'moderation' is - on occasion, at least - less onerous now than some of us 'old-timers' remember from days gone by, but to say that we will allow only a BIT of iron-sharpening, up until when the Karens can't handle the Truth, is to coddle milk-drinking. We can, and must, do better. At least HERE, in the Ghetto. IMHO.
I agree with Steve, too, that there is a right way to do it. I will confess to having grown short-tempered with endless vain repetition of tired, multiply-debunked arguments. I generally now just simply move on, unless asked directly, and honestly. Then, rest assured, you will receive an honest answer. And I can BACK it UP with Scripture, too. "Your mileage may vary," but we can have an actual discussion. Maybe. (Right, Zec?)
And, most of us will admit that, while a few 'newbies' may read a thousand pages or so of old threads, the vast majority don't. They ask questions. That has been the way humankind has ALWAYS been, as any parent will appreciate.
Example: (I'll put in a link.*) "Sun-god day." Like it or not, even the etymology of the word reveals its derivation. And here's my clarification - IN this thread, IN this ghetto: You can worship any day you want. Rest, too. Hell, not at all even, but each of us will be responsible for our own choices. But if I am ASKED my understanding from Scripture, again, rest assured, I can give it. If you're not convinced - fine. It may get censored; NOT so fine, but we're used to what Big Brother is conditioning his slaves to by now anyway, right?
But in a thread where the topic was a specific, recorded midrash, which INCLUDED what I contend is one of the most undeniable, "bright red flashing light" TAGS about the issue (it's called an atbash in Hebrew - listen to the recording if you care) that proof text sets up the point I was making. It wasn't even the main point in itself. Yet, some are 'offended', and want to focus on what I contend is a singular, out-of-context, twisting of a phrase that doesn't even mean what those so readily offended claim it does. And it was already debunked -- multiple-fold -- in the recording. Again, I don't make people listen (Zec proudly proclaims he WON'T; Samuel can't be bothered to spend the time: Fine. But leave those alone who would CHOOSE to try to understand more than a sound-bite.)
I have NEVER said (and would not!) that those who fail to "set apart" His seventh-day Sabbath are 'going to hell.' But He says to do whatever He says to do (read it for yourself) and that it carries a blessing. And the Bereans are mature enough to search that out for themselves, too, but I'm happy to provide easy pointers (they are ALL over the Bible.)
To summarize:
I have no problem with spirited, honest discussion. It is VITAL to strengthening our faith, and our fellowship!
Yes, old arguments repeated ad nauseam do become tiring,. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.
But - if you can't defend what you believe, why bother? And it's CERTAINLY not something that you have enough trust in, therefore, to act (because it does!) as though your very life and soul depend on it! "If you love Me, keep My commands."
I contend that it's fair to ask, "which commands?"
My answer -- "as for me and my house, we will serve YHVH." And that means ALL of 'em. All that we can. Which obviously, isn't "all 613" - or whatever - and it NEVER HAS BEEN. (No, that's not 'dispensationalism,' it's Reality.) Men can do women things, or priest things, or king things. Don't sweat it. And you can't "sacrifice" where there IS no place to do it, so don't sweat that, either.
We don't have to all 'agree' on everything. Not even marriage. But if you can't even TALK about it, or defend your convictions - you are a Totalitarian, whether it's of the socialist, or Marxist, or fascist, or whatever economic faction. There are plenty of fora you'll feel welcome on - from X to TikTok to Instagram to TwoFacebook, to CNN and MSNBC. Go there and wallow in the Enforced Unity.
But please let "iron sharpen iron." At least a bit, at least in the Ghetto. 'They' certainly intend to shut that down eventually anyway.
--------------------------------
* the link: https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/the-golden-calf-is-so-yesterday.17192
The fact that YHVH dramatically emphasizes the importance of His sabbaths is undeniable, but it is only an element of the midrash itself, which has to do with 'golden calves' -- then and NOW -- and Aaron's culpability. Again, which applies today, too.
