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My thoughts on religion

G

Gillfam

New Member
I heard a rap the other day and just thought I'd share the lyrics with you. Too me this is right on the money, but what are your thoughts on it?

You wanna know how I feel about goin to a religion here's what it is this song makes so much sense but pisses folks off at the same time! The truth hurts!

We know that what we reap we sow
But we forget how low we can go
You think it's bad here on Earth
But if we don't get to Heaven, it's Hell

It's all goin' to hell
It's all goin' to hell
Yup, we livin' in hell
Yup, they givin' us hell

It's all goin' to hell
It's all goin' to hell
Yup, we livin' in hell
Yup, they givin' us hell

Every Sunday dressin' up, catchin' gossip at its worst
Couldn't see the difference in the Baptist and the Catholic Church
Caught up in the rapture of the First Chapter and Second Verse
If we all God's children then what's the word of the reverend worth

Taught early that faith is blind like justice when you facin' time
If we all made in God's image then that means his face is mine
Wait or it's that blasphemy, it's logical it has to be
If I don't look like my father then the way I live is bastardly

Naturally that's confusion to a young'n tryin' to follow Christ
Taught that if you don't know Jesus then you lead a hollow life
Never question the fact that Jesus was Jewish not a Christian
Or that Christianity was law accordin' to politicians

Who was King James, and why did he think it was so vital
To remove chapters and make his own version of the Bible?
They say Hell is underground and Heaven is in the sky
And they say that's where you go when you die
But how they know?

We know that what we reap we sow
But we forget how low we can go
You think it's bad here on Earth
But if we don't get to Heaven, it's Hell

It's all goin' to hell
It's all goin' to hell
Yup, we livin' in hell
Yup, they givin' us hell

It's all goin' to hell
It's all goin' to hell
Yup, we livin' in hell
Yup, they givin' us

I've been to many churches, I've quoted many verses
I've dealt with my base self, I controlled my many urges
I used to study my lessons, it was a blessin' not a curse
I learned that heaven and hell exist right here on Earth, word

Studied with Rastafarians and learned from the dreads
That Hell is called Babylon
And that's where them crazy boarheads dwell
They got us thinkin' that Muslims like to make bombs
But real Muslims believe in paradise and the resist the Shaitan

So it all sound the same to me, that's why when they say
One is right and the other is wrong, it just sound like game to me
It's like God skipped past the church and came to me
No, that ain't vain to me
It's just a particular way that I came to see

The difference between those who claim to be
Religious and those that say they spiritual and recognize
That life is full of miracles, you could see my glow in a rhyme
The poem divine 'cause it coincide with a grow in the time
That those who lookin' for God knowin' to go inside

We know that what we reap we sow
But we forget how low we can go
You think it's bad here on Earth
But if we don't get to Heaven, it's Hell

It's all goin' to hell
It's all goin' to hell
Yup, we livin' in hell
Yup, they givin' us hell

Yup, we livin' in hell
Yup, they givin' us hell
Yup, we livin' in hell
Yup

Livin' in mass confusion, lookin' for absolution
The gas induces psychopath, produce the last solution
Based on his interpretation of what the words were sayin'
Tryin' to get to God but ended up doin' the work of Satan

Religion create division, make the Muslim hate the Christian
Make the Christian hate the Jew
Make the rules of faith that you condition to
And gotta to follow and God forbid you go to Hell
But if you ever walked through any ghetto
Then you know it well

Mama says they're after me
Preacher says, he's blasphemy
I say there's gotta be a better explanation

Cause this is how it sounds me and you
I pray that God hears you
Take one look at your rear view
And if you see what I see
That only we

We know that what we reap we sow
But we forget how low we can go
You think it's bad here on Earth
But if we don't get to Heaven, it's Hell

It's all goin' to hell
It's all goin' to hell
Yup, we livin' in hell
Yup, they givin' us hell

It's all goin' to hell
It's all goin' to hell
Yup, we livin' in hell
Yup, they givin' us hell

We know that what we reap we sow
But we forget how low we can go
You think it's bad here on Earth
But if we don't get to Heaven, it's Hell

Hell, hell, hell, hell
Hell, hell, hell
We know that what we reap we sow
The Lord is my Shepard, just because the Lord is my Shepard don't mean I got to be no sheep! Feel me?
More blood have been spilled over religion, than anything in world history!
When we all just sayn the same thing!
 
Gillfam said:
More blood have been spilled over religion, than anything in world history!
When we all just sayn the same thing!
Click to expand...
I think we really are NOT just saying the same thing. If all religion is the same, there's not much point in bothering to read the Bible, any road will take you to Heaven, just go for a wander. But that's nonsense. Contradictory things cannot be true all at once. God cannot be an simple one (Islam), a three-in-one (Christianity), many (Hinduism), and not exist (Buddhism, atheism) all at the same time.

If only one thing can be true, we should seek that truth.

Much blood has been spilled over religion, for instance because
1) The world hates Christians and wants to kill them, and
2) Sometimes misguided Christians have thought it is their Christian duty to kill Protestants / Catholics / other heretics / Jews / Muslims ...

But that should serve to highlight how important these differences are - important enough to die for - rather than be cause to believe all beliefs are the same.
 
But not all Christians believe in the trinity either. There also so many kinds of "Christians" that would take each other out given the chance! The same go for muslims, Jews, hindus and so on. Is what that song is talking about is the fact that many religions are teaching if you believe in any thing different then you will go to hell.I cannot even count the times I have heard many different types of Christians tell me because I do not believe what their specific religion believes I'm going to hell. Yet I keep all Kosher laws and do my best to follow scripture to a T. The same way Y'shua did. To me religion was made to separate. I find it amazing a certain group of muslims do see Y'shua as the son of El' yet others don't. Yet people don't hear of them they only hear about the ones bombing or killing. I also know many Christians hate Messianic and vice verse. Yet others can praise HaShem our El' together in peace. I believe it is a sin to celebrate pegan holidays even if they are changed to Christian names yet I wouldn't go and put people down for them doing it. But I have been messed with for following Jewish holidays. Yet many Christians clam to be Judeo-Christian (what ever that means) yet they hate Jews?

Is what I see in the song is a fact that more blood has been spilled over religion. Yet no one wants to admit it beyond the people who do not believe in HaShem our El'.
I guess I am saying no one has the right to hate those with whom they do not agree with. Nor do they have the right to take their life. Even Judas had a purpose in Yah's plans (though few will admit it). Why not these folks who you disagree with? I seen the call out the other day on what someone believed. It may have been well intentioned, but still offended that person probably because they have been attacked by others for having a different opinion. Me on the other hand I do not care what others think. They can wish to attack, but few have ever succeeded. See I left my Jewish faith for Christianity a long time ago and found it wasn't for me. I knew though how I also believed in the New Covenant as well which is why I became messianic. I believe however Yah has a purpose for everyone! Who are we to go against Him? I am certainly not that brave! Yet everyone seems to think they know what is best for someone elses eternal soul when we can't even truly figure out the simplest things in science, health, Government and so on. Most people don't even realize the potential they have within themselves yet they think they can make someone elses life better by pushing what they believe (or ben told to believe) on everyone else. So yes religion can be a very dangerous thing!

I have found if we could all be of one heart then true peace does come over us. I have also found when we want to try to prove everyone elses is crap, then we tend to be the ones with no peace, thus leading to things that are not of Yah.
 
Gillfam said:
Yet everyone seems to think they know what is best for someone elses eternal soul when we can't even truly figure out the simplest things in science, health, Government and so on. Most people don't even realize the potential they have within themselves yet they think they can make someone elses life better by pushing what they believe (or ben told to believe) on everyone else. So yes religion can be a very dangerous thing!

I have found if we could all be of one heart then true peace does come over us. I have also found when we want to try to prove everyone elses is crap, then we tend to be the ones with no peace, thus leading to things that are not of Yah.
Click to expand...

Very well said!

B
 
Who's this rapper?
 
Talib something name of the song is called "giving them hell" I believe.
 
I actually largely agree with your take on this Gillfam, now that you've explained it, at least between different branches of Christianity. There is so much hate between different Christians, it is disgusting. When you truly choose to follow what you believe God is revealing to you, who is your greatest enemy? CHRISTIANS. If you say "I think it's ok for a man to have two wives", the world says "you're weird", Christians say "you're evil" and then proceed to kick you out of their church and slander your name so nobody else will follow your ideas. The same goes for many other issues.

People are very quick to say "you're not saved" because you disagree with something in their theology. But what does the Bible say we must do to be saved? Must we worship on a particular day, have only one wife, believe in a premillenial rapture, or even believe in the Trinity? Not at all.
Acts 16:31 said:
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house
Click to expand...
Do that and you're saved. Do that and you're NOT going to hell. It's pretty simple.

It doesn't say "believe in the Trinity" or even "believe Jesus is God". Nor does it say "recite the Sinner's Prayer" or "ask Jesus into your heart". It simply says believe He is "Lord", or master. In other words, accept Him as your master (ie choose to follow Him as well as you understand His commandments), and you will be saved.

Now we've got a few different ideas about what those commandments are, and it is good to debate them so we can learn from each other how to serve Him better, but those debates aren't about salvation. On the other hand there are many people who do NOT accept Him as Lord / master of their lives, and who actually are going to hell. It is our duty to warn them, teach them, and help them to come to know Jesus. Just yelling "you're going to hell" probably won't be a particularly successful way of doing that for most people though...
 
Well, I haven't done close anylsis, but I've read enough to convince me that his message is wrong. One thing I picked up: what's the difference between the Baptists and the Roman Catholics. The answer is, about a thousand miles. They have completely different messages.
Another was about taking the word of the pastor. We shouldn't be relying on our pastor. We should be always checking the Bible. No doubt there are more points in this rap, but I'm a bit tired. :P
There is a saying, that I think is very true: Almost right is ALWAYS wrong.
I can see where he's rapping from, but he's missing the plot. It sounds like compromise, big time.
 
Hello, Jay here, I've read the posts on "My Thiughts on Religion". I've studied the Scriptures for a long time, probably longer than most of You are old. The thing that is the problem with religion, is that it's just religion, whereas, the Scriptures has great meaning, for the most part misunderstood. Religion is a money maker, all the players try to play the sheeple. All the different denominations are there for the gain, not Your benefit, therefore, their attitude, "My Way or the Highyay." All the modern religions have figured out just how to keep their flock of sheeple, by pursuading them that part about going to hell. The Babylonians figured that out centuries ago, therefore, modern religion today. Christians do not study the Scriptures, they cannot even read the Scriptures, as a general rule, but they believe what is presented to them by their handler, The Preacher, without question. The Jews of Rev. 2:9,3:9 study the Scripture, Catholics Officials, study the Scriptures, they do not study for Your benefit, quite the opposit. The scriptures is wrote to, and about, the Israelite people "The Hebrews", not Edomite Jews, not Catholics, or any other religion. If You're worried about going to hell, You've got a real problem, unless You're going to be creamated, which I personally don't believe in, but that's just My belief. The Scriptures DOES NOT teach the trenety, the rapture, or that the Mesiah was a Jew. The Mesiah is of the linage of Jacob "israelite" of his son Judah, a Judahite, not a Jew. The Jews are from the linage of Esau, Jacob's twin brother, the Scriptures says Esau is Edom. The King James, and most other Books, mistranslate Judah, for Jew, they're not the same.
Satan has totally deceived the world, just as the Scriptures says. Most people today are in total denial of the Scroptures, that's why as a country, We're in so much trouble. The Creator has allowed Duet. 28 to be commenced against the nations of Israel, for their transgression of His Law.
That's why I live by the Scriptures. I only write this for Your information, I'm
not trying to pursuade You of anything, The Creator will do that when He gets ready.

Jay
 
Weighing in for fun on this interesting discussion...

I propose that every system of thought ending in "-ism" is a religion, or close enough to count. It determines how you run your life, and constitutes man's attempt to become or stay acceptable to God through their own effort. Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Shintoism, Shamanism, Mohammedanism (older term for Islam), Judaism, Animism, Wiccanism ...

I'd love to say that Christianity is the exception, but it isn't necessarily. Each division claiming to be the proper representative of Christianity (Catholics, Adventists, Pentecostals, Baptists, JWs, LDS, etc ad nauseum) seems to pretty much meet the definition of being a religion as well, and sometimes a cult besides!

However, true Christianity is NOT a denomination. It is not a religion. It is a relationship between an individual human and God. One which kills his or her dead human-ness and replaces it with Divine Life. It restores that human to a position of dominion over his or her piece of this world, acting as the Human Regent for Jesus, upon whose shoulders is NOT the religion but the government! Rather exciting stuff.

With that in mind, I pretty much tend to agree with the lyrics above. Not necessarily perfectly, but pretty much.
 
CecilW said:
Weighing in for fun on this interesting discussion...

I propose that every system of thought ending in "-ism" is a religion, or close enough to count. It determines how you run your life, and constitutes man's attempt to become or stay acceptable to God through their own effort. Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Shintoism, Shamanism, Mohammedanism (older term for Islam), Judaism, Animism, Wiccanism ...
Click to expand...

I am SO very amused by the cultural bias of this section of your comment Cecil, you DO realise that in their native language these terms are not used, it is particular to English and therefore has zero validity to the argument you claim to make, Wiccanism? You just made that up! Come on, I expect better from you.

B
 
Sure 'nuff Bels. Was meant to make a point for those who natively speak English, rather than be definitively accurate in each regard. Much like the lyrics under discussion.

How else would you describe the system of thought that Wiccans practice, from a religious point of view? "Wiccanism" makes grammatical sense... Surely you don't argue that Wicca is not a religion? That one is too easy to refute. :)

I guess one could say that the grammatical exceptions of "Islam", "Wicca", and "Jehovah's Witnesses" should be added to the list. But would it make any practical difference to communicating the concept involved? That all of these are religions? That each is MAN's (the genus, regardless of gender) attempt to placate & establish relationship with God, thereby elevating themselves, whereas true Christianity is about God's attempt to re-establish lost relationship with and thereby elevate mankind?

Nice to hear from you, my friend.
 
Oooooo ...

Just for fun, let me add to the list.

I happen to LOVE the philosophy of Objectivism, as taught by Ayn Rand in her various fiction and non-fiction books, but particularly Atlas Shrugged (all 1280 densely packed pages of which I have read something like 15 times!)

But it does end in an 'ism, and I have to admit that many of its advocates treat it pretty much as a religion by most definitions. Although, oddly enough, God used Atlas Shrugged to restore and enhance my faith in Himself at a time when it had been lost.

Did I ever get in trouble talking about THAT back in the mid-80s! Had people making the sign of the cross at me as if to ward off a witch or demon. Rather good practice for talking about PM a decade+ later. *chuckle*

Now, if all that made sense to ya, Bels, wrap your head around this seeming polar opposite: The basic texts of Taoism (though not the current, religious practice thereof), have had a huge positive impact upon my understanding of the Bible, relationship with God, and practical Christian living. :D
 
CecilW said:
, whereas true Christianity is about God's attempt to re-establish lost relationship with and thereby elevate mankind?
Click to expand...

Which true Christianity? Protestantism? Catholicism, Mormonism, Anglicanism, Presbyterianism.
Evangelicalism???

They all call themselves true Christians. And every single one of them feels their position is superior. Your opinion, like everyone else's in this world, is formed by bias. Everyone thinks what you think and they are 100% correct. You would probably say they are not right. I just feel all of this 'I'm right' 'No you are wrong, I'M right!!!' So sad and pointless....a huge waste of human happiness and potential.

Nice to hear from you, my friend.
Click to expand...

Thank you. :)

B
 
Isabella said:
Which true Christianity? Protestantism? Catholicism, Mormonism, Anglicanism, Presbyterianism.
Evangelicalism???
Click to expand...

See all the -isms?

In my view, skipping all of the above, and just reading and doing the Bible.

Are ya gonna ask, "Which part?"

If you even stick with the words of Jesus (In red, in some editions), you'll do pretty well. And probably arrive at a very similar definition of "true Christianity" as given above.

As to energy expended on the "me right, you wrong" debate, I've just expended more in this explanation than otherwise in the last few months combined. *grin* We all stand or fall to our Master. I'm not much interested in trying to sneak onto the Judge's bench.
 
Bels, defining "True Christianity" is a good challenge, thanks for that, here's my take on it.

I'd define "True Christianity" as whatever it is that makes somebody a "True Christian", ie somebody who is in God's true Church.

The Church is the entire body of redeemed believers who actually follow Christ. Some are Protestant, others are Catholic, some attend no church at all etc. (some cars are in garages, some in parking buildings, others are parked outside). On the other hand, there are many people who call themselves "Protestant" or "Catholic" or whatever who might happen to attend a church service every week but have not actually accepted Christ, so are not redeemed (not everything in a garage is a car).

The redeemed believers are those who have actually chosen to accept Jesus as the Lord of their lives. "True Christianity" is therefore having a genuine attitude of submission to Jesus as your Lord.

Now, even with that attitude, we'll all get things wrong. That's why we have disagreements which end up making us split into a bunch of "-isms". Every theological disagreement is important. For instance, does the communion bread just represent the body of Christ, or does it actually change into His real body? That's a very important theological point, and there are "True Christians" who argue for either side of the argument. And only one view can be correct - somebody is certainly wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that they are saved regardless of their view on this issue.

Because "True Christianity" is about an attitude of the heart, and the heart is what fundamentally matters. For instance, "It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes out of it", and "If you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery with her in your heart".

So "True Christianity" is not Protestantism, or Catholicism, or any particular denomination. Nor is it getting every last detail of Christianity absolutely correct. It is simply making an honest commitment to follow Christ wherever He leads - and He will teach you more every year through your entire life. You might even switch "-isms" a few times along the way...
 
People that think they understand everything really irritate those of us who do.

I remember never being more confused about God then when I went to "church". Yet, every church wants to know, why don't they believe like us? Don't they read the Bible?

...and if you read the Bible to a group of Christians you will have many amens, but begin to explain something and you will eventually step on toes. Why?

Traditions...
Doctrine of men...

These are the things that devide us, just as scripture says they will.

...but Christians are the advocate of absolute truth, so where is it? Certainly we see it in areas of agreement such as Christian Plural Marriage.

Yet, we are unwilling or unable to shed these things that devide us and these schisms go on.

It is a work in progress...
 
Yet many churches of any faith do not except plural marriage, even though they have stated it isn't against Yah! Then I hear the good ol well it's against the law thoery. Well so were many things before enough people lived it too have a law changed. Remember it is law for doctors to do abortions if they work in a place that provides gov assistance, it is a law for a judge to judge to marry gay couples in states it is legalized in. The law isn't always right when concerning ones faith. Yet the church will claim it is the law so it must be followed. Yet let a law get passed they don't like or against what they believe and they will go against it 100%. Thus why I say once again, why do we need religion? We don't we just have to live our lives accordingly. I only say I am a Messianic because I am not a Christian. As I believe different than what the Christian doctrinal teach thus I cannot be called one of them nor am I a Jew because I also believe in the new covenant. So I am in the middle lol. Yet people will down me all the time cause I say I am not a christian, cause it seems like such a bad thing too say. I do not call him christ so no I am not one.Yet many will throw stones and say I am going to hell. I believe in scripture 100% But I do believe it is not all in the KJV. I do however respect other peoples rights to be a christian, and do not knock them for it. I attend a messianic church, but at the same time I am my own person and study for my self. Yet it is good too be amongst even if it is for debating purposes so I stay on my toes and study the word to see if they say right or not. I have often read things and had a totally different interpretation then others. Then I have read some and it was the same. So yes am I just sick of religion sure! Am I anti fellowship most def not! I will fellowship with any faith just because I can gain knowledge by studying what they say! It keeps me to an open mind to learn and though I may not believe as they do I can find common ground. I have even seen it said on here and other places calling it "messy antics" and so forth. To me what ever you just had to say went down the drain as soon as you make a remark about who I am and what I believe like that. Most Christians are all about gaining numbers. But the hatred some show have turned them into nothing more than bullies! When you insult what someone believes they will go on the defensive and everything you had to say not matter how right or wrong will be met with a hard heart. Just saying religion is a sensitive subject for a lot of folks because it has become a game of who can out do who? When we are all meant to fellowship. I have been on here for a while and left and then came back after a break. I have always just shared my views but was also careful to respect the views of others, but then get attacked for my views. Same every where else. I just come for fellowship not conversion. I know there is much to learn, but I am secure in what I believe and honestly think most other people are as well. Trust and believe when someone is ready to ask questions they will. More so online. Remember Yah gave people free agency to try to prevent that would be going against Yah. Be an example by the life you lead and others will follow! If not you are not part of the solution, you are part of the cause!

NeoPatriarch said:
People that think they understand everything really irritate those of us who do.

I remember never being more confused about God then when I went to "church". Yet, every church wants to know, why don't they believe like us? Don't they read the Bible?

...and if you read the Bible to a group of Christians you will have many amens, but begin to explain something and you will eventually step on toes. Why?

Traditions...
Doctrine of men...

These are the things that devide us, just as scripture says they will.

...but Christians are the advocate of absolute truth, so where is it? Certainly we see it in areas of agreement such as Christian Plural Marriage.

Yet, we are unwilling or unable to shed these things that devide us and these schisms go on.

It is a work in progress...
Click to expand...
 
CecilW said:
How else would you describe the system of thought that Wiccans practice, from a religious point of view? "Wiccanism" makes grammatical sense... Surely you don't argue that Wicca is not a religion? That one is too easy to refute. :)
Click to expand...

I have no idea how I know this, but with an exceptional memory for useless facts, I note that Wicca was recognized as a religion in the late 1960's. The headquarters is in Hinton, West Virginiay, a little coal mining town we used to frequent in Gospel work. Maybe that's where I learned it, anyhow it is most assuredly a religion, recognized by the government. It never was noted as Wiccanism, but I do know a few involved in the religion and have heard the term used by others besides Cecil.

What was the point of this post again? I need a nap!
 
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