Non-marital male to female interaction??

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Annella, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Annella

    Annella New Member Female

    I see TONS of conversation about wives submitting to husbands. However, I don't see any discussion about what opinions or Biblical guidance exist concerning expectations of behavior (especially with regard to respect/submission/non-submission) between men and women who are not......and never will be...... married or related. For example, two families hold a joint potluck. Both families follow Biblical guidance on submission of wives to husbands. But, can a man unilaterally order the other man's wife around merely because she is a woman? Or can she tell him to stick his demands up his nose? (Let's assume for some reason her husband is not there to help her so she has to deal with the situation herself.) Thank you!
    andrew likes this.
  2. Slumberfreeze

    Slumberfreeze Esteemed Member Male

    Does a man have a right to order another man's wife around? Not as far as I can see.

    Can she tell him to stick his demands up his nose? Well, not that either. The Christian response to boorish behavior is not more boorish behavior. Or else I'm going back to threatening people with great bodily harm for insignificant slights because Christianity holds no higher ideals than the world does.

    Matthew 20:26
    It shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,

    There is more to being "biblical", in my view, than what can be defined by the marriage dynamics. A man has no 'right' to order another man's wife around. And yet, as long as he isn't requiring anything immoral of my wife, she would be well advised to put her pride aside and render whatever service he requires. In fact, if she only ever does what she is asked, respectfully, to do by her friends and family; I would venture to say she has no reward in heaven. Even the heathen do that.

    It is true that if (during my unexplained absence at this potluck) the other man was ordering my wife around in a rude or over-assuming manner, it will probably be the last joint potluck I ever hold with the man. I do not value potlucks overmuch, though.
    andrew, Mojo, eye4them and 2 others like this.
  3. Annella

    Annella New Member Female

    I've read many commenters discuss never or almost never refusing a husband anything. Saying no only is allowed before the marriage vows. I'm not particularly concerned with whether it would be prideful but rather, is a woman always OBLIGATED to say yes to a man that is not her husband. And, I'm not suggesting he's asking for sex. Rather, a husband can plainly have his wife prepare his potluck food. But, can the non-husband also order her to "fix his plate" or make him a sandwich? Is he ENTITLED to issue her orders based solely on gender......not courtesy or custom.

    Thank you for your time and response!!
  4. aineo

    aineo Moderator Staff Member Male

    I don’t believe so. The difference, in my understanding, comes down to who the ‘head’ of the woman is. Is it her father? When she lives in her father’s house and is unmarried - yes. Is it her husband? When she is married - yes. Is it another man? There could be room for debate if it is a pastor or deacon, but I don’t believe either of these roles take precedent over the husband, and, frankly, I think any man ordering another woman around that is not under his headship is walking on thin ice.
    andrew, Verifyveritas76, Mojo and 4 others like this.
  5. mystic

    mystic Well-Known Member Male

    Debi Pearl touched on this in her book Created to be His Help Meet, and as I recall she puts it like this: The relationship mirroring that of Christ to his people is that of the husband and wife, therefore it is within the marriage relationship that woman submits to man. No other man, be he pastor or whatever, has headship over her.

    Elsewhere Pearl notes that there are separate spheres of delegated authority, and that the authority of, say, an officer of the court (i.e. the police) is different than that of a husband, but I think we can all agree that OP's asking about the sort of day-to-day interactions in which the relevant authority would be that of the husband. Does his domain become shared with other men by virtue of their maleness? It does not.

    But, she would emphasize, the submissive wife must be sure to comport herself so as to bring honor to her husband. That is always the larger imperative.

    At the couple of BF retreats I've attended, the wives in the kitchen didn't let me wantonly raid the refrigerator when I had arrived late and missed a meal, but nor did they leave me to fend for myself; they very hospitably directed me to the food that hadn't been put away yet, the location of utensils, etc. — and I was left with no doubt the husband of these women must be quite estimable. (An aside: Isn't it fun to not have to assume that the plural of husband applies when speaking of a group of wives?)

    Lest anyone think I'm holding up Debi Pearl as a teacher, I think she'd be the first to demur and point out she's a woman advising women. I just happened to evaluate the book last week as a gift for a certain woman who wants to become submissive and has asked for guidance.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  6. Mojo

    Mojo Esteemed Member Male

    Dear friend @Annella,

    Seeing the high esteem that the majority of the posters on this site place on the biblical, positional authority of the husband of the household, it might lead some who are not as familiar with it, to conclude that it derives from a superiority complex.

    We men don't stress wifely submission out of a sense of superiority, merely a respect for a godly order of hierarchy.

    I would question the motives of any man "ordering" any man's wife around at a potluck. That's sacred ground in my book, and is cause for deep concern. It steps over boundaries I wouldn't want to get near myself. It is also grounds for me taking up the rod of correction on that man as I test whether or not he wants to turn the other cheek during my beating....extreme, I know, but it depends on just how this man approached my wife.

    But, you must also realize that if a woman enters into a service contract (employer/employee) that the Pauline and Law codes of the Old Testament would apply. Masters are to treat fairly, and servants are to submit to masters.

    Dig a little deeper and you will find plenty of posts on here describing the full context and implementation of godly submission. It's just as much of a difficult responsibility for the husband, if done according to true biblical precepts.
  7. rockfox

    rockfox Well-Known Member Male

    My first suggestion would be to ask your husband what he would have you do. He is, after-all, your spiritual head and the one to whom you should submit on the matter; regardless what we may think about it.
    andrew, Kevin, Joleneakamama and 3 others like this.
  8. Annella

    Annella New Member Female

    Thank you all very much!! I'm still learning. I really appreciate your help.
    andrew likes this.
  9. frederick

    frederick Well-Known Member Male

    Excellent, so keep asking the questions and you'll keep getting answers and then the rest of us also keep learning. It might have been helpful to have some comments from the female members of the BF community.
  10. cnystrom

    cnystrom Well-Known Member Male

    Order? I would take great offense to another man ordering my wife around. She is very kind and would be glad to help, but another man has no authority to order my wife around.

    For this reason, I do not like my wife to work outside the home. She is my wife and I like her working for me. I do not want another man, or even a woman ordering my wife around.


    She is mad at me right now, because I stayed up too late posting in this forum!
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  11. mystic

    mystic Well-Known Member Male

    @rockfox, you said it! And as far as describing Pearl's message, I'd forgot that's her central message.
    andrew, Kevin and aineo like this.
  12. ZecAustin

    ZecAustin Esteemed Member Male

    A woman has zero obligation to any man who isn't her husband or her father if she's unwed. She can tell any man she wants to take a hike.