Polygamy in the Workplace

[Bartato]

UPDATE: I actually decided to tell him today. We had back-to-back long car rides between jobs, and I decided to go ahead and fill him in.

Fortunately, his response was beyond good. In fact, it’s probably the best response I’ve had to date from anyone I’ve told. He expressed a complete lack of judgment, an admiration for my family and “the love and closeness [he’s] always seen with us, a total willingness to keep quiet, and even respect for the lifestyle. He said he’s committed to his fiancé alone but acknowledged that’s only because of social norms and not a rigid belief in monogamy. He said, “If she were to come to me in a few years and express a desire to add another woman to our family, I certainly wouldn’t fight her on that!”

I told him to tell his fiancé if he wanted to, and after a break between jobs he told me he briefly saw her at home and told her. When he did, her response was apparently, “Well it’s no surprise Steve’s so freaking busy and has no life!” She went on to tell him she was happy for us and eager to get know us all more even better now.

So, it obviously couldn’t have gone better, and thanks to those of you who replied and reinforced my gut feeling of not going overboard with something like an NDA!

I'm so glad to hear the good report. I'm glad you were able to be upfront about it. It is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Bartato]

Off topic, but regarding polygyny and the workplace...

One of my coworkers is from Africa. He would claim to be a Christian of some sort. We have talked several times about the subject of polygyny in Africa. His father had multiple wives, and a large number of children.

While my coworker only has one wife and one child, he does understand that the Bible clearly permits polygyny and that only the traditions of man prohibit it. He also knows that I believe that.

 

[cnystrom]

That is a great story and wonderful outcome!

Well done, and praise God!

 

[ostephenu]

I remember reading that book back in the early 2000s. Pretty unhelpful, and unbiblical.

Then a few years later, I learned that the author Steve Arteburn (coauthor), and supposed marriage advice guru has been divorced twice, and is now married to his third wife (young and attractive too).

It's bad enough when pastors like John Macarthur or John Piper erroneously preach traditional rather than Biblical marriage. At least those guys have successfully been married to the same woman for fifty plus years. They are wrong, but at least practice what they teach.

Arteburn on the other hand gives us pseudo/Christian psychology, and can't seem to even manage to hold on to a woman.

By the way, I'm not intending disrespect towards anyone who is divorced. It's just kinda nauseating to see a twice divorced man prancing around giving the rest of us marriage advice.

Spot-on! Do you come from a reformed background? Not many people are familiar with Piper and MacArthur. I used to follow them (especially Piper) pretty closely before my understanding changed.

 

[frederick]

It's just kinda nauseating to see a twice divorced man prancing around giving the rest of us marriage advice.

Like getting investment advice from Bernie Madoff or property purchasing advice from a homeless person; just as reasonable.

Congrats for the good outcome @0stephenu. Hope all continues to be an encouragement to you and your family.

 

[cnystrom]

...Not many people are familiar with Piper and MacArthur.

Of course John MacArthur has been in the news a lot lately for fighting the COVID mandates at his church. I believe his church won a lawsuit against the City of LA if I am not mistaken.

 

[Bartato]

Spot-on! Do you come from a reformed background? Not many people are familiar with Piper and MacArthur. I used to follow them (especially Piper) pretty closely before my understanding changed.

I would say that my theological views generally fall in the category of "Reformed or Historic Evangelical". I'm kind of a big "5 Solas" guy, and would also affirm the "Five points". I like reading and or listening to guys like Charles Spurgeon, R.C. Sproul, John Piper, Francis Schaeffer, John MacArthur, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, Wayne Grudem, etc.

I was not raised in "Reformed" circles, but rather the Church of the Nazarene, which is a Wesleyan-Arminian Holiness church.

Back in my 20's, (around year 2000), I started reading and listening to a bunch of Reformed pastors/authors. I also decided that the Bible really was the Word of God and that it was my final absolute authority. I started carefully reading more precise translations of the Bible (like NASB and ESV instead of NIV). I also became friends with several devout real Presbyterian men. All that pretty much resulted in me becoming more "Reformed" though of the "Baptist flavor".

I also started to learn more about Biblical gender roles, having been raised with an "egalitarian" viewpoint, I first adopted the "complementarian" and then ultimately "patriarchal" views.

I also believe the Bible does not permit women to be elders (which the Nazarene church allows). So, my wife and I left the Nazarene church for Calvinistic Baptist churches.

John Piper and the other reformed type pastors really helped me enormously, and I will forever be grateful to them. They helped me understand the Gospel, particularly the imputed righteousness of Christ. They helped me look to Jesus, and gain assurance of salvation. Praise be to God!

Obviously my views on patriarchy and polygyny would not be accepted by most "Reformed" Christians, though it should since that is what the Bible teaches regarding marriage.

I got kicked out of one church for my views on polygyny (and teaching that the Torah clearly permits it and New Testament never prohibits it).

We currently attend another reformed Baptist Church (SBC), and the entire elder board knows what I believe about polygyny. They totally disagree, but don't give me much trouble since I don't really talk about it. I was a small group leader and worship team leader at the last church. Now I lay low.

Sucks.

While I'm grateful to the pastors I mentioned above, I'm also frustrated and disappointed with them. I think some of them must know (or at least should know) that the Bible teaches patriarchy (and permits polygyny).

 

[ostephenu]

I would say that my theological views generally fall in the category of "Reformed or Historic Evangelical". I'm kind of a big "5 Solas" guy, and would also affirm the "Five points". I like reading and or listening to guys like Charles Spurgeon, R.C. Sproul, John Piper, Francis Schaeffer, John MacArthur, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, Wayne Grudem, etc.

I was not raised in "Reformed" circles, but rather the Church of the Nazarene, which is a Wesleyan-Arminian Holiness church.

Back in my 20's, (around year 2000), I started reading and listening to a bunch of Reformed pastors/authors. I also decided that the Bible really was the Word of God and that it was my final absolute authority. I started carefully reading more precise translations of the Bible (like NASB and ESV instead of NIV). I also became friends with several devout real Presbyterian men. All that pretty much resulted in me becoming more "Reformed" though of the "Baptist flavor".

I also started to learn more about Biblical gender roles, having been raised with an "egalitarian" viewpoint, I first adopted the "complementarian" and then ultimately "patriarchal" views.

I also believe the Bible does not permit women to be elders (which the Nazarene church allows). So, my wife and I left the Nazarene church for Calvinistic Baptist churches.

John Piper and the other reformed type pastors really helped me enormously, and I will forever be grateful to them. They helped me understand the Gospel, particularly the imputed righteousness of Christ. They helped me look to Jesus, and gain assurance of salvation. Praise be to God!

Obviously my views on patriarchy and polygyny would not be accepted by most "Reformed" Christians, though it should since that is what the Bible teaches regarding marriage.

I got kicked out of one church for my views on polygyny (and teaching that the Torah clearly permits it and New Testament never prohibits it).

We currently attend another reformed Baptist Church (SBC), and the entire elder board knows what I believe about polygyny. They totally disagree, but don't give me much trouble since I don't really talk about it. I was a small group leader and worship team leader at the last church. Now I lay low.

Sucks.

While I'm grateful to the pastors I mentioned above, I'm also frustrated and disappointed with them. I think some of them must know (or at least should know) that the Bible teaches patriarchy (and permits polygyny).

Very interesting. My first wife and I (a few years prior to my second wife joining our family) attended a reformed Baptist (FIRE) church in Ohio. I still have great respect for the pastor of that church, and reformed theology is what helped me see the sovereignty of God clearly. In fact, we ended up there because a friend from that church challenged me on some basics questions I realized I couldn’t honestly answer without acknowledging what I now consider basic, fundamental points like election and predestination (some of the parts that make up “TULIP”).

My walk has definitely been progressive, and Calvinism was one of the primary stepping stones in getting to where I am now. I’m by no means a Calvinist at this point, but I do stand firm in some of reformed theology’s teachings. And I’m much farther removed from Arminianism than Calvinism.

 

[PeteR]

Obviously my views on patriarchy and polygyny would not be accepted by most "Reformed" Christians, though it should since that is what the Bible teaches regarding marriage.

I got kicked out of one church for my views on polygyny (and teaching that the Torah clearly permits it and New Testament never prohibits it).

Yeah... Reformed believers/pastors believe 'Sola Scriptura' until it conflicts with their traditions... lol!

Been there, asked questions, asked to leave...

 

[frederick]

Yeah... Reformed believers/pastors believe 'Sola Scriptura' until it conflicts with their traditions... lol!

Not all of us.

 

[PeteR]

Not all of us.

I was a Reformed pastor for ten years... then I removed the WCF tinted glasses and they invited me to leave... lol.

Anyway, back to the interesting OP.

 

[Bartato]

I was a Reformed pastor for ten years... then I removed the WCF tinted glasses and they invited me to leave... lol.

Anyway, back to the interesting OP.

Is the heart of "Reformed Christianity" something like Sola Scriptura, and Semper Reformanda or a particular confession of faith such as WCF?

I intend to be Reformed in the first sense, maybe not the second.

Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, and the Bible is God's word. We need to continually renew our minds, and reform our lives in accordance with God's word. We have to go wherever the Bible takes us.

If "Reformed Christianity" fails to accept unpopular and potentially offensive Biblical truths (like Biblical patriarchy), then it is failing to do what it ought.

 

[PeteR]

Is the heart of "Reformed Christianity" something like Sola Scriptura, and Semper Reformanda or a particular confession of faith like WCF?

I was in a denomination that claimed sola scriptura, but in practice it was my crossing of the WCF that caused me to be given the left foot of fellowship. I could absolutely defend my new understanding from Scripture (Shabbat) - and they even agreed that it was water tight - but they said, 'it doesn't agree with the WCF, therefore you much change, or we let you go..' I chose to be let go.