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Prayer without a covering...

Andria

Andria

New Member
Hello..

I have had something on my mind that I haven't been able to get past for a couple of days. I am really seeking some outside input.

This is regarding the passage in the NT that discusses a woman praying and that she should not do so without a covering. My understanding is that either the woman's father or husband are her covering. I am a single woman. So, that would kind of default to my father. But my father really isn't in the picture in that way. So, my friend who is well-versed in the Word says, according to the word, it "dishonors her head" to pray without a covering.

So, does that really mean I'm not supposed to pray until I do have a covering?

I am on an endless journey to disspell the myths of religion that have been taught to me all my life, so I'm in a teachable state, but this is just one of those things that's really hard to wrap my head around.

Thanks in advance for any comments.
 
You are about to get a lot of very knowledeable, scripture based answers to this question; none of which I am qualified to contradict or endorse. I would remind you this, our God is a father to the orphan and a husband to the widow so I am confident that if your heart is in the right place then you are covered.
 
I believe in your post you talking about a spiritual covering. This is a little bit of info I shared in a previous post. If it does not pertain to what you were looking for then I won’t take any offence if you want to just “ignore” it. ;) I hope though to be a blessing and an encouragement as you work to be were Yeshua wants you to be. :D

We are Messianic Jewish believers we do at times fellowship with some Mennonites and other Christians who also practice head covering. It is our conviction based on 1 Corinthians 11 and other sources to. The Scripture passage in English can sound confusing in some translations, but in Greek it is very clear that a veil of some type is mainly what the passage is talking about. In addition, the early church practiced head covering and almost all Christian churches practiced it until the late nineteenth century. After that it started declining very quickly. Also it is a very old Jewish tradition predating the New Testament and continuing until today that a married woman cover her hair when in public. My convictions come from all this. Long hair is also mentioned in the Bible passage and having studied that with my husband as well, I also do not cut my hair. If you are interested I’m posting some links to a ministry that has some studies online. I hope you find it helpful in your studies.

http://www.charityministries.org/msg_de ... index=2328

http://www.charityministries.org/msg_de ... index=3840

http://www.charityministries.org/msg_de ... index=3841

Ephraim and I both are in agreement on this. We don’t think it will get anyone into heaven. We came to this understanding and conviction roughly seven years ago. My favorite thing to wear to cover is the pretty/flowery square scarves that you can find just about anywhere. It’s my understanding that those on the more conservative side all pretty much follow a pattern in that they are all the same. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that but I don’t see where variety is wrong either.

One thing that I have learned is that in covering, I find myself in a more willing to be submissive to my husband. It’s like a constant reminder of who I really serve, Yeshua not myself. I also find myself more open to praying for others. And about the biggest thing it has done for me is to be a light, an example to others not only in my words or actions but in what I wear. I like the idea that convey to others that I am a follower of Yeshua, I am under my husband’s covering of protection and authority, and that I believe prayer and prophecy are powerful and very real.

Just in case you wondered there are actually several small denominations that practice head covering: Amish, some Baptist (not sure what they are called), Brethren, some Church of God, Hutterite, Mennonite, some Messianic, some non-denominationals, among others. As you can see we have met a lot of people along the way in our journey, but unfortunately most will not accept polygyny.

Thank you for asking about the covering, I enjoy sharing with others and learning together about God. That’s how we ended up here with BF. :D
 
most excellent response, D.

i do believe that the hats worn to church by the previous generations and many currently in the black and also the jewish churches are an outgrowth or decline of that understanding
 
Hi Andria - Welcome. i simply wanted to say that I so appreciate your attitude. Interesting question! I am glad you posted this question here as there are some brethern here whom God has Blessed with wisdom and knowledge. This will be an interesting thread to follow. I especially like your statement of having a "teachable spirit." I think that is the key. OK fellas, I now know that there are two women who will eagerly await your response. I personally always want to defer, with respect and honor, to our brethern answering and counceling questions that may arise. Have a good day Andria!!
 
Dear Andria,

The scripture you are referring to in the New Testament is found in 1 Corinthians 11:13-16

Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Paul is referring to an actual physical covering in this passage. But Paul goes on to say in verse 16 that this was not a hard and fast requirement for all churches.

However, I believe that your real question is about 'spiritual covering'. As I always try to do, I go back to the Word of God and see what is being said there.

Even though this idea of “covering” seems good to the carnal mind, there is no Scriptural validity for this found in the Word of God. It must always be remembered, even as we’ve already stated, that the Bible must be the criteria and the foundation of all that we do. If it’s not Biblical, then it’s either wrong or of no worthwhile consequence.
Actually, this “man covering belief” is not only of no worthwhile consequence, but it is also, in effect, unscriptural.

This is what the Bible says about covering:

“Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord, who take counsel, but not of Me; and that cover with a covering, but not of My Spirit, that they may add sin to sin: That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at My mouth, to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!" (Isa. 30:1-2)

As is obvious from the Word of God, the only covering that we have that is of any consequence, is the Precious Shed Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. Anything else is of man’s doing and is facetious. True, all of us need the counsel, prayers, and support of our Brethren in the Lord. True, it is very helpful to have fellow ministers (or anyone) to confide in regarding weaknesses, problems, or anything that believers can help us pray about. To look to mere mortals, denominations, or any type of man-made structure as a covering, however, is to deny the covering of the Shed Blood of Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and, instead, to resort to man. One will then receive only the help that man can give, which is precious little to say the least!
 
This week's traditional "Torah portion" (Naso), which includes the "remedy for the jealous husband" in Numbers chapter 5 is very illustrative.

The concept is that a man has neither caught his wife in the act of adultery, nor are there witnesses, then a process is prescribed to remedy the trespass, and perhaps reconcile the marriage.

Note verse 18, where the priest sets the woman before YHVH and "uncovers her head".

The first part of the process, in other words, consists of demonstrating, both physically and spiritually, that she is "uncovered" before God.

Interestingly, the "midrash" indicates no example where a wife in such a case lied to YHVH, drank the bitter water, and suffered the curse. Whether she confessed and repented, or the husband watching stopped and forgave her anyway, the general result of God's remedy was restoration of relationship.
 
Hey Andria, I assume yor are talking about 1Cor 11. No this does not mean that you have to stop praying until you get married. Watch what he is saying. The husband is the spiritual HEAD, so if you pray or prophecy have a covering on your literal Head, because of the angels. The covering represented that you were submissive to your husband as your spiritual head and weren't trying to violate that when you came to God in prayer yourself. That even though you approached God for yourself you still weren't breaking rank because the covering acknoledges your husband as between you and God. This passage is so rich in spiritual matters I could write a book on it lol. Notice the angels play a role in the neccesity of a head covering, not God. So, put your covering on and talk to God in prayer or talk for God in prophecy sister. The husband isn't the covering he is the Head in this passage. This also lets you know the angels play a bigger role in prayer than we might think. We get a small peak a on how prayers are handled behind the seens in Revelation 8:3-5 and Daniel 10:11-21. God uses angels just as he uses us. We often forget they have jobs also and they aren't unemployed. Handling prayers and prophecy seem to be two of them. I guess the Apostle Paul knew their function so he said "because of the angels".
 
Excellent word Corey.

So many patterns in the Bible that we should heed and follow for this era today.
 
Some time ago I met a woman that I have much respect for due to her understanding and practice of what the scriptures teach. We were chatting using an Instant Messenger. When I began to talk about the scriptures and pasted some into the place I would normally type she asked me to wait just a minute then explained that she had covered her head. I asked her about it and she referred me to:

1 Corinthians 11:8-10 For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

She explained to me that she felt that it was to be done to show respect to the Lord, the angels, and to me. I was honored and continued on with our discussion and quickly realized what a godly woman I had met.
 
The covering is not a man. The covering is cloth and or possibly long hair. But not a husband.

Although covering with a husband is supported in other scripture, but that is not something you would want to do when you pray in public
Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm. But how can one keep warm alone? Ecclesiastes 4:11 NIV

1 corinthians 7:3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.

In fact it is okay not to have a husband cover his wife when they pray specifically in 1 corinthians 7:5-6
Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command.

1. A woman should have long hair

1 Corinthians 11:13-15 NIV
Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

2. If her hair is not covered she should cut it off
1 Corinthians 11:4-6 NIV
Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.


If the covering only meant long hair then it could mean something similar to the following

If her hair is not long she should cut it off. So since short hair is an abomination it should be cut shorter. That does not make any sense.


The following would make more sense to me.

The woman should be covered with long hair and covered again with fabric or cloth on top of that long hair.


However an alternative translation in a NIV footnote is as follows for verses 4-7

Every man who prays or prophesies with long hair dishonors his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with no covering (of hair) on her head dishonors her head—she is just like one of the "shorn women." If a woman has no covering, let her be for now with short hair, but since it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair shorn or shaved, she should grow it again. A man ought not to have long hair

Some people tried to argue that prostitutes shaved their heads and Paul did not want woman to look like prostitutes. (It is interesting that a lot of feminists like to have short hair the same style attributed to ancient prostitutes)

No matter how you look at it the minimum is long hair and a cloth may also be required. If a woman has short hair she must keep it covered with a cloth until it grows long. But men find long hair attractive so it is probably better to cover the hair whenever reasonably possible so no one is tempted to sin.

Hair also can not be braided or possibly broided. You might want to look up what the word braided/broided actually means in Greek I heard someone say that it does not actually mean braided but embroidered.

I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 1 timothy 2:9 NIV
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 1 timothy 2:9 KJV

Now regarding what I currently think is the most likely answer. Will the Churches have been following a certain custom, normally a custom does not make something morally true, but it does in this case because Paul instructed people to follow the custom in this specific case.

Now if anyone is disposed to be argumentative and contentious about this, we hold to and recognize no other custom [in worship] than this, nor do the churches of God generally. 1 Corinthians 11:16 Amplified

What might be the custom can be found in one of the writings of Tertullian called in translation On the Veiling of Virgins.

“the majority of Churches keep their virgins covered.” (verse 282 under heading chapter 2)

“Still, here (as generally happens in all cases of various practice, of doubt, and of uncertainty), examination ought to have been made to see which of two so diverse customs were the more compatible with the discipline of God. And, of course, that ought to have been chosen which keeps virgins veiled, as being known to God alone; who (besides that glory must be sought from God, not from men” (verse 283 under heading chapter 2)

The Ante-Nicene Fathers; translations of the writings of the Fathers down to A. D. 325. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, editors.
Or at the following website
http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.iv.ii.html


Anybody feel free to correct me if I made some mistakes and or typos.
 
A woman should have short hair and a husband long hair.

How would you measure it to decide if it is long or short. Is there a certain number of inches measured in a certain way, or a certain volume, etc?
 
I know this topic was over a looong time ago but I just found it so here's my .02. The men were typically polled. That means to gather all of the hair from the head to the crown in ones hand/ fist and then cut it straight across. I believe that this was the initial use of the word polled as in the census. A man who refused to be counted for war would not have his head polled, thus it was shameful.
 
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