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Question for single women like me...

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POLYMISS

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i must apologize because this is a forum post, but it's also kind of a rant on my part as well. i'm single, and i repeatedly encounter families where homosexual activity exists or is expected to exist among the current and incoming wives. now, before you all get mad at me, this is not about being hateful and bashing gay/bi-sexual people. i know that most people leading alternative lifestyles are wonderful people. in spite of being a person of faith, i realize that we're not all in this world to live, think, and believe alike. i'm just frustrated because even though i don't condemn alternative lifestyles (gay/bi-sexual), it simply IS NOT for me. i'm wondering how many other single polygurls are having the same problem. if there are any single polygurls or polywives who have repeatedly run into the same issue, i would like to hear from you with regard to dealing with this. thnx ladies. :cry: :? :!: :cry: :? :?:
 
I know you asked the ladies but too me that not polygyny that's more like a threesome. We do not expect nor would my wife want this we are not swingers. Sounds to me like these people may misunderstand what the bible is talking about or not making it biblical at all. Sorry you had to go through all of that. PM like any thing else has it's people who aren't biblical and maybe taking advantage using the term of plural marriage to back up other lusts. I assure there are many that DO NOT believe in a threesome. Many men here I am sure their wives wouldn't have it either.
 
POLYMISS said:
i must apologize because this is a forum post, but it's also kind of a rant on my part as well. i'm single, and i repeatedly encounter families where homosexual activity exists or is expected to exist among the current and incoming wives. now, before you all get mad at me, this is not about being hateful and bashing gay/bi-sexual people. i know that most people leading alternative lifestyles are wonderful people. in spite of being a person of faith, i realize that we're not all in this world to live, think, and believe alike. i'm just frustrated because even though i don't condemn alternative lifestyles (gay/bi-sexual), it simply IS NOT for me. i'm wondering how many other single polygurls are having the same problem. if there are any single polygurls or polywives who have repeatedly run into the same issue, i would like to hear from you with regard to dealing with this. thnx ladies. :cry: :? :!: :cry: :? :?:
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I'm a guy but I can understand what you're saying because a lot of people bring up this point up on YouTube. I'd question if some of the families that you've encountered are really Christians because a Christian would practice their marriage using biblical standards and not just whatever tickles their fancy. Perhaps out of some misunderstanding or temptation some Christians may consider plural marriage for threesomes or even same-sex acts as well, but as with any other sin that someone commits from the heart or from physical acts, you should not continue to entertain nor engage in the behavior but rather repent and focus on living your life according to your Christian convictions.
 
Yes, unfortunately it is extremely common and even many families right here on this board, while closeted about it, definitely expect to follow "one bedspread rule". Quite a few of the single girls have the expectation as well. Personally, even if the women claim to be bisexual, I would not be comfortable with sexual activity between sisterwives as it just totally complicates the relationships. That is to say, that type of relationship between wives, in addition to not being Biblical, would interfere with the friendship between the women and ultimately lead to divides in the marriages each woman had with the husband. I know both types of practicing poly families. The ones where the wives have no sexual contact are much more stable and healthy, living in the 'light' so to speak. The family I personally know locally the women do have sexual relations and there are dynamics created that have been extremely harmful in my view.

I have considered it at great length and I know for me, I just am not comfortable considering that type of relationship as it does not meet my definition of a plural marriage. Obviously, you know this about yourself too.

I think the best way to handle it is the way we have. Just be straightforward about the whole thing. Ask them from the beginning (together and separately I advise) what their expectations are in regards to sexual activity and sleeping arrangements. Generally, if they expect you to share all one bed, then they expect more than just sleeping in one bed even if they try to skirt around the issue. After they have satisfied you with their intentions, make it clear you are not bisexual and will not ever consider sexual activity with your sisterwife under any circumstances. A man who insists upon it and considers it a matter of obedience is, frankly, not entering PM for the right reasons and is looking only for sexual gratification and not the best interests of his wives. I believe with both sides being honest and taking your time to search for and listen for the clues, you will know what the intent is. Trust your gut instinct too... it is there for a reason and since I note on your profile you enjoy Mensa activities, I figure you are pretty well equipped to smell the poo when someone is shoveling it your direction. ;)

Becca
 
Wow I had no idea it was that bad. I thought it was maybe just a few. My wife would kick me from here to VA then to NY if I told her that was why I was taking in another wife for a threesome. She is very biblical about those things! She said it's unnatural and against God and nature. I just figured a lot of people on here wives would killem if they sudgested that. Good lookin out Becca! I really feel bad for women lookin for a man be it Plural Marriage or monogamy , Cause they could be easily taken advantage of.
beccablue said:
Yes, unfortunately it is extremely common and even many families right here on this board, while closeted about it, definitely expect to follow "one bedspread rule". Quite a few of the single girls have the expectation as well. Personally, even if the women claim to be bisexual, I would not be comfortable with sexual activity between sisterwives as it just totally complicates the relationships. That is to say, that type of relationship between wives, in addition to not being Biblical, would interfere with the friendship between the women and ultimately lead to divides in the marriages each woman had with the husband. I know both types of practicing poly families. The ones where the wives have no sexual contact are much more stable and healthy, living in the 'light' so to speak. The family I personally know locally the women do have sexual relations and there are dynamics created that have been extremely harmful in my view.

I have considered it at great length and I know for me, I just am not comfortable considering that type of relationship as it does not meet my definition of a plural marriage. Obviously, you know this about yourself too.

I think the best way to handle it is the way we have. Just be straightforward about the whole thing. Ask them from the beginning (together and separately I advise) what their expectations are in regards to sexual activity and sleeping arrangements. Generally, if they expect you to share all one bed, then they expect more than just sleeping in one bed even if they try to skirt around the issue. After they have satisfied you with their intentions, make it clear you are not bisexual and will not ever consider sexual activity with your sisterwife under any circumstances. A man who insists upon it and considers it a matter of obedience is, frankly, not entering PM for the right reasons and is looking only for sexual gratification and not the best interests of his wives. I believe with both sides being honest and taking your time to search for and listen for the clues, you will know what the intent is. Trust your gut instinct too... it is there for a reason and since I note on your profile you enjoy Mensa activities, I figure you are pretty well equipped to smell the poo when someone is shoveling it your direction. ;)

Becca
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beccablue said:
Yes, unfortunately it is extremely common and even many families right here on this board, while closeted about it, definitely expect to follow "one bedspread rule". Quite a few of the single girls have the expectation as well.
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Revgill87123 said:
Wow I had no idea it was that bad. I thought it was maybe just a few.
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Seriously, it's not that bad. It is untrue that there are "MANY" families here on this board that expect or "demand" interaction between their wives. That is simply not the fact. There "may" have been ONE person searching for a family in ONE specific part of the world who "may" have run into this a lot, but it is completely immature to apply the actions of one person/family or a few people/families to that of an entire group of people. I have met a lot of people from Biblical Families PERSONALLY and there is absolutely no way I can say that. Let's stop blanketing good people with bad information.
 
I'd be curious to know what the biblical scripture is that supports female sexual interaction as a sin. Not that I condone it or want anything to do with it, but I'm not convinced that there is a clear prohibition for it, kwim?

That said, if it's not something you're comfortable with, don't get involved in it. Whether it's right or wrong, I don't know, but if it's not what you're looking for, then those types of families are probably not what you want to get into.

Personally, dh doesn't have any desire for that, and while his 2nd wife said early on that she would be willing to do that if it was what he wanted, he knows that I have no desire for it, and he really doesn't either. I doubt it's something that will ever be an issue here. Personally, I don't even think I could share the bed with him and her in it, but I have a lot of sleep issues as it is, and adding another person would only keep me (and everyone else) awake most of the night. So it's not for us, and for that I'm grateful.
 
The most clear thing to me is that sexual intimacy is for people who are married to each other and women cannot be married to each other, making sexual intimacy a form of fornication, by virtue of it not being in a marriage relationship.

SweetLissa
 
I believe our cultures mindset about bisexual and homosexual interactions have been grossly skewed.

The Bible is clear about what is OK sexually and what isn't.
Anything outside of the "Don'ts" or "Thou shall not's", is up to the people in the Marriage. Starting at the Husband.

That said, POLYMISS question leads me to believe she wants a family where there is no sexual actions between wives. Which is fine, theres absolutely nothing wrong with that.
However as she has said, there are families out there that do want that; and from my research theres nothing wrong with that either. Wife sleeping with Wife isn't listed as an abomination like Man sleeping with Man is.

Neither is a Man sleeping with all of his Wives at once. A Threesome in the sense of a Husband and two Wives making love together is NOT a bad thing.
I'm not saying thats a standard though, so please don't take that the wrong way.
Due to our culture and mistrust issues, most women can't sleep in the same bed, let alone be sexual with their husband at the same time. (Again, this isn't wrong, I'm just stating...)

Now after reading all of that please note that I personally only have one Wife (One wonderful Wife at that), and I don't have personal experience in these things. Only research...

I don't know exactly where I stand on this, but frankly thats my business and no one else's but my Wives.

I don't think its right for Men or Women to judge where God doesn't.

If I'm mistaken please correct me. That and I'm always open to opinions.
 
Well Todd, there are more than one or two, and more than even just a handful. Several are members on other forums and they are a bit more open about it there and I even know of two that are only members here but have stated they expect all to sleep in one bed. While sexual activity between wives was not openly discussed, they were adamant about all sleeping together and that to my mind is inappropriate as well since the implications are lack of privacy during intimate times. The one bedspread rule is a common theme in many poly boards, just is not discussed openly here. We might as well bring it up since it has far reaching issues associated with it. Note again Todd, as you are prone to picking at everything, I said many, NOT all. Just because you don't see it or don't want to see it, well, it is still there and it is in larger numbers than you think. I'm sure it is easy to put on the tinted glasses when you yourself have different standards and figure most people "think the same", but this is one of the reasons Polymiss brought it up to start with is because of just how common it really is. Ask any of the single ladies who have dealt with several families and you will see it is extremely common for that expectation to be in place. We have made some great friends, both families and singles, and heard quite a bit.

That is not even counting how some families pounce on these girls like pieces of meat. I myself had been a registered member here less than ONE HOUR when I already e-mails from a family asking what kind of family I was looking for and telling me about themselves. I had not even had a chance to post an intro and they didn't bother to ask if I was married or not, just pounced. If that happened to me, a married lady, then Lord only knows how these girls are inundated from the moment they set foot on a poly board. It is just disgusting.

Becca
 
beccablue said:
Well Todd, there are more than one or two, and more than even just a handful. Several are members on other forums and they are a bit more open about it there and I even know of two that are only members here but have stated they expect all to sleep in one bed. While sexual activity between wives was not openly discussed, they were adamant about all sleeping together and that to my mind is inappropriate as well since the implications are lack of privacy during intimate times. The one bedspread rule is a common theme in many poly boards, just is not discussed openly here. We might as well bring it up since it has far reaching issues associated with it. Note again Todd, as you are prone to picking at everything, I said many, NOT all. Just because you don't see it or don't want to see it, well, it is still there and it is in larger numbers than you think. I'm sure it is easy to put on the tinted glasses when you yourself have different standards and figure most people "think the same", but this is one of the reasons Polymiss brought it up to start with is because of just how common it really is. Ask any of the single ladies who have dealt with several families and you will see it is extremely common for that expectation to be in place. We have made some great friends, both families and singles, and heard quite a bit.

That is not even counting how some families pounce on these girls like pieces of meat. I myself had been a registered member here less than ONE HOUR when I already e-mails from a family asking what kind of family I was looking for and telling me about themselves. I had not even had a chance to post an intro and they didn't bother to ask if I was married or not, just pounced. If that happened to me, a married lady, then Lord only knows how these girls are inundated from the moment they set foot on a poly board. It is just disgusting.

Becca
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Fair enough, I'm willing to accept when I'm wrong and that things aren't always the way I think they are. However, I'm going to request that you provide links and proof so that I can be convinced. Show me where they're talking about this and how they're promoting it for their families.

Sleeping together in the same bed is not the same as intimate interaction between the wives. There is absolutely nothing wrong with more than two people sleeping in the same bed. It may not be something that some families wish to do, but all the same, there is absolutely no evidence scriptural or otherwise to prove that it's wrong for everyone.
 
scaredwife said:
I'd be curious to know what the biblical scripture is that supports female sexual interaction as a sin. Not that I condone it or want anything to do with it, but I'm not convinced that there is a clear prohibition for it, kwim?
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Well Scaredwife, that's the elephant in the room, isn't it?

There are no passages in Scripture that speak for or against female-female intimacy. Of course, some people believe that something is sinful unless explicitly mentioned to be lawful, and other people believe that something is lawful unless explicitly mentioned to be sinful. How we view "amoral" behavior will determine what we tend to think. Then there's personal values (which are different from morals), so different Believers may have different views on such a sensitive subject, even when they earnestly seek to follow His will.

Personally, I can't definitively call something a sin that Scripture does not. God went to extraordinary lengths to cover the various prohibited sexual practices in His Word, including male-male relations, so it's possible that our initial reasoning is flawed. Women do not have the physical equipment to become "one flesh" with one another, so this may be the same issue as with non-sexual intimacy between women. Perhaps it's simply not considered a sexual act. At the same time, I do believe that any woman that would desire exclusive relations with another woman, apart from their common husband, would be stepping outside the intended purpose of sexual relations of the woman with the man. I realize that I cannot support this belief with specific verses, but it does align with the principles contained in Scripture.

In our monogynous culture, women have been brought up to see other women as the enemy. "He's MY man so back off!" Without that deeply buried threat of losing a husband to another woman, say in a polygynous culture, women may tend to be more nurturing and comforting to one another. We know that in Biblical times, an entire family was assumed to live together under one roof, and often in one bed. So it is possible that the very reason that Scripture is silent on this issue is due to polygynous marriages. It may simply be that God chose not to place unmanageable restrictions within the marriage bed, such as "You stay on this side", "You face this way", "No moving your arm past this point", etc. I doubt that this was a total non-issue in a population of millions where polygynous marriage was common. It might also explain other passages prohibiting specific instances of polygyny (mother-daughter, two sisters to vex one), because under these circumstances, it would POTENTIALLY be placing the wives in unintended relational authority (though not necessarily in a sexual context). More stream of consciousness here than anything, so feel free to disregard if I'm not fully connecting the dots.

In any event, wives entering into a polygynous marriage with the same husband MUST be on the same page in these matters (to avoid strife), and I think the safer page is avoidance. Not knowing if something is "safe" is generally not a good reason to find out the hard way. Something happening in the natural course of events of the moment (sorry, trying to keep this as PG-rated as possible) is a far cry from intentionally planning something that would seem forced or unnatural. My recommendation would be....if in doubt, AVOID! It's really hard to go wrong that way.

In His love,
David
 
i thank you all for your insight on this issue. i would however like to clarify that i have NO experiance with people on this board and i'm completely new to the forums, so my post was not regarding people on here. i'm just talking about something that repeatedly rears its ugly head for single poly gurls. dysfunction runs rampant in alot of families seeking another wife, and the expectation of activity between wives has been really annoying and hard to avoid. i know that every family has it's issues and i have not expected families to be perfect. i have the patience of a saint, but i draw the line at what i consider unadulterated perversion. this issue, and hubby's wanting to get way too physical way too quickly are amongst my top complaints as i have encountered with poly families. i keep finding myself having to let wives know that i'm not into other gurls, and let hubby's know that this is not grand central station and i'm not an airport toilet or a doorknob. i hope that i have not offended anyone and if i have, i'm profoundly sorry. i never meant this post as a complaint against anyone on here.
 
Oh, no, no one is blaming you. This is just one of those subjects that gets a lot of discussion when discussed in mixed company with both men and women. It probably wouldn't have gotten so much discussion had it been posted in just the ladies forum or just the gentlemen's forum.
 
I believe that Sola Scriptura which is simply going only by what the Bible says as a basis of what to do is faulty reasoning. To clarify what I mean, I think it is good of course to follow what the Bible DOES say, but when it comes to what the Bible DOESN'T say, no one really knows if that's adding to God's word, although it would be adding to the Bible. I make the distinction (in degree) between God's word and the Bible because I don't believe or don't know that the Bible is ALL of God's word or that God has to tell us, but rather I believe the Bible canon may've been prematurely closed. Even God's LAWS that were given to Moses may not be a complete picture of God's commands because there were acceptable practices during the time that Genesis describes that are no longer accepted since the "revelation" of God's laws, for example, incest. Abraham admits to being married to his half-sister in Genesis 20:12 where Leviticus 18:6,9 clearly speaks against that - presumably Cain and Abel (Adam's children) did the same (also Moses allowing for divorce which was against God's original plan). I think this sets some precedent for God accepting practices outside of His Law and maybe restricting them later on or perhaps the reverse is also possible.

To get more to the point about female-female sexual acts, I don't know if God is okay with that or not but for now I'm inclined to believe that God doesn't approve of it. Some Christians often refer to Romans 1:26-27 to show that lesbianism or any female to female is vile and perversion.

Romans 1:26 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

Romans 1:27 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Here's how I've formed some of my views against homosexuality not being allowed in both women and men in the Bible:

I'd want to know what exactly are those unnatural "relations" that Romans 1:26 is referring to in reference to women and that's also in the context of "vile" (KJV) or shameful "lusts". I would at least say that male-to-female "relations" are natural so I'm not sure if anyone should call it a stretch that Romans 1:26 isn't referring to what women are doing to men but rather what women are doing to other women. Also can the word "natural" refer to God's intended purpose or design and in the context of Romans 1:26.. God's intended purpose or design for "relations"? The KJV uses the word "use" in place of "relations" in Romans 1:26, and in the Greek, the word that "use" is translated from means "of the sexual use of a woman or refers to sexual activity" (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 5540&t=KJV).
My last point is that Romans 1:27 is clearly talking about male homosexuality, and if vs. 27 is a parallel thought (as in referring to the same thing) due to the words that start of vs. 27, "in the same way", then I believe vs. 26 is also talking about female homosexuality, otherwise how does verse 27 parallel with vs. 26?
 
At the same time, I do believe that any woman that would desire exclusive relations with another woman, apart from their common husband, would be stepping outside the intended purpose of sexual relations of the woman with the man. I realize that I cannot support this belief with specific verses, but it does align with the principles contained in Scripture.
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I believe this is the verse your looking for:

Romans 1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:
for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

For 1223 this 5124 cause God 2316 gave 3860 0 them 846 up 3860 unto 1519 vile 819 affections 3806:
for 1063 even 5037 their 846 women 2338 did change 3337 the natural 5446 use 5540 into 1519 that which is against 3844 nature 5449:

Natural -Strong's G5446
1) produced by nature, inborn
2) agreeable to nature
3) governed by (the instincts of) nature

Nature - Strong's G5449
a) the nature of things, the force, laws, order of nature
1) as opposed to what is monstrous, abnormal, perverse
2) as opposed what has been produced by the art of man: the natural branches, i.e. branches by the operation of nature
b) birth, physical origin
c) a mode of feeling and acting which by long habit has become nature
d) the sum of innate properties and powers by which one person differs from others, distinctive native peculiarities, natural characteristics: the natural strength, ferocity, and intractability of beasts
 
Ummm...Beccablue and anyone else who feels this way...what is wrong with everyone sleeping in a bed together? How is that inappropriate - just sleeping - nothing sexual??? If one is uncomfortable with it, that is a personal feeling, but to blanket across the board that it is inappropriate...that is a bit much. Is it wrong for 2 siblings to share a bed? Is it wrong for a family to sleep on the floor like one big sleepover? Of course not, that's absurd. And what about cultures where a family bed is the norm??? Why does sleeping together equal sex? Again, absurd.z

This is totally off the original topic. Sorry polymiss. I can understand your frustration. I'd be sure to communicate up front with a family that you are not into that and be sure to find a family that feels the way you do.
 
Trying to find different meanings for the words in Greek in the following scripture would be futile. Verse 27 is very obviously about homosexuality and the writer connected the two verses ("likewise" "in the same way" "also") as same sin. The word "natural" in verse 26 is the same as "natural" in 27. (physikos) An argument can not escape verse 26 without escaping verse 27 also and that attempt would be ridiculous. If you want verse 27 to address sex between men then verse 26 must be sex between ladies.

So if you want scripture here are three versions of Romans 1:26-27
NIV
Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion

American Standard
26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

King James Version
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
 
Topics been covered, it's not something we want to become a focus, so we are locking the thread.

I would add this note on something touched on in some posts here, that I haven't brought up in a while: we take very seriously protecting the single ladies in our midst. But there's only so much we can do if not contacted. If you feel you have been contacted inappropriately by someone on Biblical Families forums, by all means, drop us a note and let us know: staff@biblicalfamilies.org. It's also possible to block all PMs if you don't want to get them.

Thanks, Nathan
 
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