Meat Rebellion vs "Revolution"

[Mark C]

In America's Founding Era, there was a famous set of pastors and preachers who became known as the Black Regiment. In large measure, they framed the Scriptural and moral basis for the Patriots, and what became the successful American Revolution, and War for Independence.

And they understood what has since largely been forgotten, or re-written.

What is 'Rebellion'? And to Whom? and How Can We TELL?

Mark Call – Parsha “Korach” teaching from Shabbat Shalom Mesa

Parsha “Korach” (Numbers chapters 16 through 18) is – outside of perhaps Genesis chapter 3 – the per-eminent story in Scripture about “rebellion. And it comes during t…

hebrewnationonline.com

Korah "rebelled" against Moses and against the God of the Bible. The Founders "returned!"

Parsha “Korach” teaching from Shabbat Shalom Mesa | Come out of her, My people…

 

[MeganC]

"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God"

- unknown

 

[MeganC]

This subject is why I will always recoil when someone knee-jerk invokes Matthew 18 against a dissenter in a congregation.

Because it seems the Matthew 18 enforcers almost never stop to consider if the dissenter is right.

One person can be right and a majority can be wrong. Even a pastor and 99.9% of a congregation can be wrong.

Which is why it's a good idea to hear out dissenters and allow that he or she may be realizing something that everyone else missed.

 

[Mark C]

"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God"

- unknown

Actually, the quote can pretty much be attributed to "Everyone" who had any understanding, for several hundred years, from Thomas Jefferson and other of the Founders, to Martin Luther King, who doubtless knew it was worth repeating.

 

[frederick]

This subject is why I will always recoil when someone knee-jerk invokes Matthew 18 against a dissenter in a congregation.

Because it seems the Matthew 18 enforcers almost never stop to consider if the dissenter is right.

The passage you are referring to begins with this important opening point; “Moreover if your brother sins against you, ..." (Matt. 18:15). The sin has occurred, so this is how to resolve the interpersonal relationship problem. The facts must be established by the individuals as to whether or not sin has occurred before it gets to Matthew 18.

 

[MeganC]

The passage you are referring to begins with this important opening point; “Moreover if your brother sins against you, ..." (Matt. 18:15). The sin has occurred, so this is how to resolve the interpersonal relationship problem. The facts must be established by the individuals as to whether or not sin has occurred before it gets to Matthew 18.

And what is sin? Calling out a pastor who's embezzling his church or squandering church funds on himself? Is that a sin? Because in some churches apparently it is.

I appreciate your POV yet the fact remains that Matthew 18 is frequently abused to intimidate dissenters or others who question leadership.

In my own deeply held opinion I do not consider the topic of right or wrong to be subject to a vote.

And I personally don't care if that's in the context of government or the church. Both are led by fallible and sometimes selfish and craven people and caution should always be invoked when defending them.

Don't forget that just a few years ago that some churches and their congregations went off the rails demanding that everyone get their shot. Was it a sin not to get the clotshot? If anyone invoked Matthew 18 to oust the unvaccinated were they right? They thought they were.

 

[MemeFan]

Actually, the quote can pretty much be attributed to "Everyone" who had any understanding, for several hundred years, from Thomas Jefferson and other of the Founders, to Martin Luther King, who doubtless knew it was worth repeating.

I think it's even older.

Thomas Aquinas, point 5:

Thomas Aquinas on Whether to Obey Tyrants

Commentary on the Sentences of Peter Lombard, Book I, Distinction 44, Question 2, Article 2 Thomas Aquinas by Sandro Botticelli, ca. 1481-2 The procedure in discussing this problem is this: It seem…

matiane.wordpress.com

 

[Bartato]

And what is sin? Calling out a pastor who's embezzling his church or squandering church funds on himself? Is that a sin? Because in some churches apparently it is.

I appreciate your POV yet the fact remains that Matthew 18 is frequently abused to intimidate dissenters or others who question leadership.

Titus 3:9-10 is also sometimes miss applied to abuse saints thar dare to challenge the traditions of men.

"But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." (NKJV)

That's the passage that was used when I got kicked out of a church a decade ago, for pointing out that the Bible doesn't prohibit polygamy.

They basically said I was being divisive and contentious about a foolish abd worthless controversy concerning the law.

This is a passage church "leaders" run to, when they realize their position cannot hold up under careful Biblical scrutiny.

 

[Mark C]

Don't forget that just a few years ago that some churches and their congregations went off the rails demanding that everyone get their shot. Was it a sin not to get the clotshot?

From the Whore Church pastor, "We said we were gonna follow da Science."


Wrong god.


And, like Korach, many have already paid with their lives.

 

[Mark C]

This is a passage church "leaders" run to, when they realize their position cannot hold up under careful Biblical scrutiny.

And it's still rebellion to Him, and His Word.

 

[frederick]

the fact remains that Matthew 18 is frequently abused to intimidate dissenters or others who question leadership.

If people twist the Scriptures to accomplish their sinful purpose, it's not the Scriptures that are wrong in the instruction we are given.

In my own deeply held opinion I do not consider the topic of right or wrong to be subject to a vote.

I never said it was, so I absolutely agree with you.

Don't forget that just a few years ago that some churches and their congregations went off the rails demanding that everyone get their shot. Was it a sin not to get the clotshot? If anyone invoked Matthew 18 to oust the unvaccinated were they right? They thought they were.

I think you misunderstood my initial comment, so I'll repeat what I wrote above; The facts must be established by the individuals as to whether or not sin has occurred before it gets to Matthew 18.

Shalom

 

[Mark C]

One of the major points of Numbers 16-17 and Korach's Rebellion, is that a big 'assembly,' even the whole congregation, can be WRONG; dead wrong.