The Lost Son - Luke 15:11-32

[ABlessedMan]

I have been thinking about the parable of the "lost son." People frequently speak of the "parable of the prodigal son,' but in fact "prodigal" just means "wasteful," and that kind of misses the point of the whole parable. For the broader context here is how the chapter begins:

Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them." (Luke 15:1-2 ESV)

Jesus responds with the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin, and finally the lost son. He is essentially explaining to the Pharisees why those people are precious to him . . . The last parable has troubled me some days, it is in the response of the "lost son."

" 16 And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything.
17 "But when he came to himself, he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you.
19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants."' (Luke 15:16-19 ESV)

What (in reality) is the repentance of the "lost son?" It does not appear to be remorse or guilt for the way he dishonored his father. It is rather complete selfishness. The "fun" he had has run out, and now in order to survive . . . he goes back to his dad.

The father runs to greet him. (v.20) and embraces him with joy.

So the thing that generates the difficulty: Is it wrong to love the LORD selfishly? We are conditioned to believe that we should love him with Agape . . . except we are incapable of it without his help. Any thoughts?

 

[andrew]

The pearl of great price and treasure in the field are also stories of 'enlightened self-interest'.

Try this on for size: Truly recognizing the magnitude of God's love and provision and wanting that for yourself no matter what it costs is the beginning of wisdom and humility. Thinking we are serving God 'selflessly' is the beginning of religious pride and hypocrisy.

I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of wickedness.

I'll see myself out....

 

[MemeFan]

Look @ABlessedMan, it simple.

You need to get something out of relationship. There is no point in just giving.

In other hand, you can't just take. They relationship is senseless from other side. Many forgot this is their relationship with Lord.

And father did get something in parable. Presence of his son. We want loved people close to us.

 

[FollowingHim]

" 16 And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything.
17 "But when he came to himself, he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you.
19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants."' (Luke 15:16-19 ESV)

What (in reality) is the repentance of the "lost son?" It does not appear to be remorse or guilt for the way he dishonored his father. It is rather complete selfishness. The "fun" he had has run out, and now in order to survive . . . he goes back to his dad.

The lost son does however repent for his behaviour, by admitting "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you". Yes, he was led to that by selfishness. But that selfishness did lead him to remorse, guilt and repentence.

 

[steve]

Prodigal comes from the same root word as prodigious.
He was a prodigious spender.

 

[ABlessedMan]

Selfishness gets a bad rap . . . and for me personally (and as a midwesterner) it has usually been deemed one of the "big" sins. . . the root sins. Midwesterner culture tends to group pride and selfishness together. Andrew's comment about self-righteousness is right on. . . and what he says about "the pearl of great price" makes me wonder . . . can we be saved without being selfish? (Is enlightened self-interest really different?)

 

[MemeFan]

Selfishness gets a bad rap . . . and for me personally (and as a midwesterner) it has usually been deemed one of the "big" sins. . . the root sins. Midwesterner culture tends to group pride and selfishness together. Andrew's comment about self-righteousness is right on. . . and what he says about "the pearl of great price" makes me wonder . . . can we be saved without being selfish? (Is enlightened self-interest really different?)

Vice must be damaging to it's carrier. Otherwise it isn't vice, but something else.

Taking care of you and your interest isn't vice. Taking care of only you and your interests is vice. It blocks any cooperation with other people.

 

[andrew]

Selfishness gets a bad rap . . . and for me personally (and as a midwesterner) it has usually been deemed one of the "big" sins. . . the root sins. Midwesterner culture tends to group pride and selfishness together. Andrew's comment about self-righteousness is right on. . . and what he says about "the pearl of great price" makes me wonder . . . can we be saved without being selfish? (Is enlightened self-interest really different?)

Further thought: "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." If loving myself is the standard for how I should love my neighbor, then it matters a lot how I perceive myself and take care of myself. Jordan Peterson's Rule 2 ("Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping") suggests that our culture has a serious problem with the second Great Commandment. (I don't mean that Peterson's wrong to say that that way (he makes a point worth pondering), I mean that he is correctly diagnosing and treating something that is seriously wrong with us.)

Related thought: "So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it...". Paul appears to be appealing to a similar principle here, and he takes it as axiomatic that a man takes care of his own body. Consequently, I take it to be implied here, and my experience backs this up, that if a man is having trouble loving his wife, you can't really address that without looking for the self-worth issues that may be (and probably are) causing the trouble.

 

[Keith Martin]

Further thought: "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." If loving myself is the standard for how I should love my neighbor, then it matters a lot how I perceive myself and take care of myself. Jordan Peterson's Rule 2 ("Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping" suggests that our culture has a serious problem with the second Great Commandment. (I don't mean that Peterson's wrong to say that that way (he makes a point worth pondering), I mean that he is correctly diagnosing and treating something that is seriously wrong with us.)

Related thought: "So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it...". Paul appears to be appealing to a similar principle here, and he takes it as axiomatic that a man takes care of his own body. Consequently, I take it to be implied here, and my experience backs this up, that if a man is having trouble loving his wife, you can't really address that without looking for the self-worth issues that may be (and probably are) causing the trouble.

I now see I wrote a whole post but never hit Send, and now, @andrew, that you more eloquently brought in Paul's thoughts on loving their wives as their own bodies, I'm pitching what I wrote!

I'm glad I never posted it, though, because I'm glad you brought Jordan Peterson into this discussion. I loved 12 Rules of Life when it first came out, but listening to the man talk has thoroughly ruined it for me. He's a schtick machine -- and more often incorrect when one goes beyond the vacuity of his Rules. I find his whole relationship to Scripture to be like that: heavy doses of platitudes with Jung seasoning and an inevitable mention of Solzhenitzyn's Gulag Archipelago. Wouldn't know male headship if it squeezed him like a pimple. Psychobabble exploitation at its best.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I now see I wrote a whole post but never hit Send, and now, @andrew, that you more eloquently brought in Paul's thoughts on loving their wives as their own bodies, I'm pitching what I wrote!

I'm glad I never posted it, though, because I'm glad you brought Jordan Peterson into this discussion. I loved 12 Rules of Life when it first came out, but listening to the man talk has thoroughly ruined it for me. He's a schtick machine -- and more often incorrect when one goes beyond the vacuity of his Rules. I find his whole relationship to Scripture to be like that: heavy doses of platitudes with Jung seasoning and an inevitable mention of Solzhenitzyn's Gulag Archipelago. Wouldn't know male headship if it squeezed him like a pimple. Psychobabble exploitation at its best.

I think Peterson is on a journey and where he is is not where he’ll be, but you’re right that he is pumping certain wells dry. It’s almost my own private drinking game now waiting to see when he’ll bring up the burning bush.

Still, it must be hard to have that many people looking for deep meaning in your every pronouncement. Much like I imagine Bob Dylan would like just once to write a cute limerick on his nephew’s birthday card without it being parsed for genius lyricism, I imagine Peterson would be relieved to talk about the weather for a while.

 

[Keith Martin]

I think Peterson is on a journey and where he is is not where he’ll be, but you’re right that he is pumping certain wells dry. It’s almost my own private drinking game now waiting to see when he’ll bring up the burning bush.

Still, it must be hard to have that many people looking for deep meaning in your every pronouncement. Much like I imagine Bob Dylan would like just once to write a cute limerick on his nephew’s birthday card without it being parsed for genius lyricism, I imagine Peterson would be relieved to talk about the weather for a while.

I don't doubt that he didn't comprehend what would happen to him after the book, but any writer is responsible for what he unleashes -- and Mr. Peterson has had multiple off-ramps available to him since his fame began. Aside from his breakdown, he consistently chooses to run headlong down the self-promotion route.

 

[andrew]

I almost deleted the bit about Peterson; shoulda listened to the little voice. Just wanted to make the point that in today's culture things assumed in scripture don't always mesh with the reality around us, so sometimes we have to revisit those priors and straighten out the mess there before we go on to the lesson the writer or speaker was trying to convey.