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The words of the wise

FollowingHim

FollowingHim

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Occasionally, in the middle of a thread discussing anything, someone just comes out with a statement so profound you really want to remember it and share it with others. But it gets lost. This thread is a place to record and share the most profound gems of wisdom.

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mystic said:
What is the world's purpose in monogamy? What does the kingdom of this world stand to gain by it?
...
The Greeks and Romans invented Western civic government. That is, as opposed to tribal government, in which extended families govern themselves, answerable to their elders and the god or gods they serve. Civic government is all about empire and worldly power.
To make this worldly government work the Romans invented monogamy. Via monogamy the government replaces the tribal structure with its own, making every family essentially a de facto sub-unit of the empire. Western civilization continues to derive its power from this arrangement.
The West discourages the notion of clans (remember that word?) and is wary of "tribal" regions and peoples, disparaging them as backward and barbaric, because they maintain their power outside its system of control.
...
It shines a light on the real source of the notion that monogamy is an ideal from on high and must therefore be in the Bible somewhere: Worldly power is happy to have us think its ways are divine and unquestionable.
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Quoted post
 
Slumberfreeze said:
I believe polygamy is a culturally necessary option. My country is rotting, starting at the coasts but steadily working it's way inward. The concepts of feminism, toxic masculinity, and materialism are causing my culture to disintegrate. People who are otherwise well adjusted do not want children because of the drain on their resources. The children that are raised do not know how to be men OR women. Nigh or not, the end is coming.

Biblically plural marriage is the best answer for this. It tends toward the having of many children. It absolutely requires make leadership and female submission in order to work. The men have to be men, and the women have to be women, or the whole thing goes to hell. And our culture desperately needs both. Either poly will provide a fresh shot in the arm to our ailing society, or it will provide the strength needed to protect the seed for the next society after this current one has collapsed. I make no mistake, neither those who have left no issue, nor those who are confused about gender roles have any staying power to weather a long winter brought about by the closing of an age.

Whether or not a man ever becomes polygamous, I think all Christian men should have the option of polygamy firmly on the table. Not much tests a woman like the idea of poly, and not much tests a man like having to deal with his wife having to struggle with it. Every man should lead his home with the seriousness of purpose it would take to lead a multi-woman home, and every woman should learn to submit as if any day she could be 'a' wife and not 'the' wife.

The Church is full to bursting with 'warriors' that can't say a word in contradiction of their own wives, and women who laugh with each other about their husband's wishes. They are quislings indeed who claim to be under authority of Christ while modelling open rebellion against Him. Their bizarre presumptions of basic nature make scripture unintelligible to them. They don't know how to relate to Christ because they don't know how to relate to each other, which the bible relies upon to explain it to them. This powerless apostate Church needs a healthy dose of polygamy to shock it awake to the kind of submission required to please Him, to do the Greater Works, to be (at long last) healthy.

I have other thoughts, but I'll close this post with this thought: Poly is so crucial that even those who do not engage in it must learn from it and adapt to it. Our culture has scurvy from a lack of patriarchy, and poly is a vitamin C shot.
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View the whole thread here.
 
FollowingHim said:
For the ladies:
When it comes to polygamy, what I'd like to see is more young women finding an appropriate man and asking to join his family as a second wife (or getting her father to ask that). There's a very practical reason for this: single people have time to date, but married people don't. Married men don't have the time to date loads of single women, figure out which ones want polygamy and aren't scared off by the prospect, and suggest it to them. Married men who are doing their job are simply too busy with their existing families to take on the enormous additional time burden of dating - or the real risk of approaching the wrong woman, looking like a creep and potentially losing employment as a result.

So ladies, if you want to marry, don't wait around for a man to sweep you off your feet. The good men are too busy already with the first woman they took on, and her children. A married knight doesn't have time to put on his shining armour and gallop around the countryside searching for a damsel to rescue - but if a damsel turns up at their door they'll gladly rescue her there.

Also, although they know you exist, men as a general rule are not attuned to subtle cues so won't notice little hints that you're interested, and might see you no differently to the many other single women they know. You need to state this obviously, not bat your eyelids and then think he mustn't like you because he didn't seem to react to it (that's a silly example, but I hope you get my point).

The better the man is as a husband, the more he'll be focussed on being a husband, so the less likely you'll find him on a dating site or be approached by him elsewhere. If he's taking time off from being a husband to wife 1 to seek you out also, in the long run he might not be the most focussed husband on you either. (Obviously this isn't a hard and fast rule either, just a small observation to ponder.)
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View entire thread here.
 
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cnystrom said:
Polygamy is like the parable of the talents. You need to prove that you can manage what you have before you can be blessed with more.

When you are blessed with something before you are ready for it, we call that a curse. Think about it. Pretty much any blessing can be a curse if you are not ready for it.
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@cynstrom with a great allusion (much like the parable of two builders) all men considering polygamy should hear.
 
rejoicinghandmaid said:
Jesus called together a motley crew of 12 very unlikely men, who left to themselves would most assuredly never have joined together for a common cause. His love, forgiveness, love, long suffering, love, patience, love, seeing their potential instead of getting stuck on who they were when He called them, love, instructing in meekness, love--eventually molded, welded, and cast a body of believers that turned the world upside down!! Can we not look around us at the wonderful diversity shared in this BF community and with the same vision under His umbrella of truth work together to once again turn this world upside down?!?!
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Original post.
 
Foxlily said:
On the flip side, while men are indeed more attracted to the physical aspects of a woman, they have emotional needs as well. For a woman to dig deep and FIND desire for her husband regardless of how she feels or how tired she is, is an emotional boost for her husband. He then will feel loved and desired which in turn makes him more loving and flirty and it's a rather lovely cycle. The more selfless you both are the easier it becomes to dwell in understanding for those times when you really are dead on your feet or stressed beyond belief or what ever other things might come up.
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Wisdom located here.
 
Nice picture of a working polygamous structure.

Sonshine said:
The way our family looks at these things is that we’re all here to contribute. Isaac will often give us a list of things he wants done. It doesn’t matter WHO does it, as long as it gets done. The kids are older, so they do a lot of chores too.
If one of us (wives) prefers a job, the other is more than happy to let the other do it. If one of us hates a job, the other will gladly take it on. When one of us is all done with our jobs, we’ll immediately ask the other if she needs help. It’s what we’re trying to teach our kids to do.

Sparkles is REALLY great at organizing. So when Isaac mentions something needs organizing, I kind of just assume he wants her to do it—unless she can’t for some reason.
I do the homeschooling because I’ve been doing it for so long... but, Sparkles would step in in a heartbeat if I needed her to.

It’s really very simple. We’re all adults.

And there is absolutely no hierarchy between us. I’m the “first wife” in timeline only.
In fact, I get comments from (monogamous) wives quite frequently about how I should be “top dog” or something to that extent... And, I get to tell them every time that the only “top dog” is the husband.
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https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/pm-family-structure.15365/
 
frederick said:
What concerns me is how the arguments they present easily open the door for every false doctrine. To suggest they have a higher standard for holiness and righteousness than God has articulated in His word is to place themselves above the authority of Holy Scripture. They can make any claim or rule they want which then becomes irrefutable.

This (false) idea that God's ideal is what's presented in the Garden calls into question the sinless perfection of our Lord Jesus Christ. Every man and woman was married in the garden, they were nudists, gardeners, and vegetarians. Jesus Christ was not married, wore clothes, wasn't a gardener and definitely wasn't a vegetarian. Ask those who suggest God had a creation ideal in the Garden why they would suggest Jesus Christ fell short of God's creation ideal? Is their saviour one who couldn't live up to God's ideal? My Saviour was, is, and always will be the sinless Son who gave His life in a perfect sacrifice for my redemption. He fulfilled all that was required in the law - nothing less!
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Thread
 
"You belong to your man as he belongs to God." -- @IshChayil

IshChayil said:
even when Isaac took Rebecca to marry (after having just met her), the bible states that he "took her to his tent"
What happened in her case?
1) Abraham's servant paid the dowry to her brother Laban and her father.
2) The servant brought her back on a camel
3) Isaac took her to the tent and made her his wife.
In the language of the bible sister, Hebrew, there is no special word for "wife". The only word is "woman." Just as Isaac made Rebecca his "woman" ishah so to your man has made you his "woman."

Please don't let legalistic attitudes and church traditions bog you down. You belong to your man as he belongs to God.
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https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/feeling-lost.15600/page-2#post-213569
 
I thought this should not be lost or overlooked. Megan posted what her sister wife has said along with her own experience that confirms it.

MeganC said:
Wow. When I chose this life my mom was crazy against it and I ended up losing all of my friends including my best friend Carmen. None of them could accept this and they hated it even more when I announced I was pregnant.

Christie used to say that these people hate us for choosing this life because they're hurt that we rejected their life.

It is a very cult like behavior to shun anyone who leaves the cult. And in many ways that's what modern society has become is a cult.
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It was in random comments here.
 
@MeganC shared this enlightening description with me from her experience in poly circles about the kind of women attracted to poly...

I said that I had a list of types of women who get attracted to the life and I wrote this:

1. Women who grew up in the life and want it for themselves...usually as the first wife.
2. Girls/women who grew up in the life and can't find a man who wants them as a first.
3. Single moms.
4. Damaged women like me.
5. Divorced women or women from failed relationships who want stability.
6. Widows and widows with children.
7. Married women who come to the life with their husbands.

There are a rare few unicorns who want this all on their own and they're very rare. Did I mention they were very rare?
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Original post here.
Discussion was
Should a man seek permission from first wife to take second wife?

The following comments on authority addresses the frequent issue of men being run (consiously or otherwise) by their wives. Me thinks it is worth thinking about.
It has never been my intention to dominate my hubby.....but at times he has felt like I was not in my place. Reminds me of when we would tell our boys not to chase the milk goats....and they would say "we're not." I had to explain that it is what the goats think that counts. When you are running in the pen, and they are running ahead of you....you ARE chasing the goats! ;)
Ladies, if your man feels like you won't be haaapeeee if he makes a decision......you probably need to adjust your communication....or more. :D


Keith Martin said:
I wholeheartedly agree with the wisdom of wife preparation, and I even find myself throwing in that caveat almost every time this subject comes up, but the fact that we even think we have to mention that is evidence of the rings in our noses for the leashes our wives use on us.
.......
But the bottom line is this: we do not have to seek their permission, at least not according to Scripture. It all depends on what our highest authority source is. If it's Scripture, no permission required, even if we go into it blindly and end up having to clean up after ourselves in the matter. If our highest authority is civil law, then that's another thing. If our highest authority is The Church, we might as well install one of those rings through both testicles. If our highest authority is social approval, then instead of a box of cigars, we should just make the rings larger and carry around cases of leashes.

And if our highest authority is our 1st wife, then in all likelihood we're never going to be in a position to even consider whether plural marriage is anything but some weird fantasy based on long-ago-discredited twisted cultural practices from ancient times.
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MeganC said:
If it's an actual man as the head of the house then a lady living in cold frigidididity :p isn't an option.

Reality demands a lot of the men who want to be poly. It is extraordinary for a man to have more than one wife so he must be an extraordinary man. Like it or not, that's how it is.

The woman who wants to live this life is also expected to be extraordinary. Especially if she chooses to be yoked to the extraordinary man who is patriarchal not because of some dogma but because it's his nature. Being frigid and saying 'no' to such a man isn't a functional option once you've accepted his terms for living in his house.

I've had to have versions of this discussion with a few ladies recently.

One in particular is a young lady who is on the cusp of making major choices for her life. Will she be a wife and mom? Will she choose college? Will she choose to be a plural?

College is an option for her and she knows this. But she's leaning towards the wife and mom choice and we had a chat about the differences between a first wife and a plural.

The first wife gets to set up her household and she gets to set the tone for the family going forward. She has all sorts of influences that might be lost on some people like she gets to choose the flatware, the plates, the pots and pans, the linens, the rugs, the furniture, and then she has marital responsibilities. If she's smart she makes the marital responsibilities a priority.

The plural has to fit into the first wife's house. She makes none of the choices I listed above. Her primary job especially at the outset is having sex with their husband and most likely having his babies too. She definitely has no option on being frigid. If she doesn't want to do her part then she can leave and probably will. I've seen that happen.

Hate to say but it's not always about being a 'red blooded woman" it's more often about being a woman who understands the choices she's making when she chooses this life. She may not understand it all, but she does understand that by choosing this life she's giving up some choices afterwards. #1 is that if she chooses to be under a man's headship then that means she doesn't always get to say when she's under that man.

The extraordinary man who provides a home that can welcome and take care of a plural and her kids can be expected to make what society might consider extraordinary claims on his wives. And why not? It is his house, it's his rules, and the women chose to be with him.

That said, frigid isn't the choice. Whether or not you want to be with an extraordinary man is the actual choice.
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One of the best posts of all time!
 
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