So what was the consensus of the post? Were there any interesting or thought provoking comments?
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True or false: single women are either arrogant and prideful or needy with baggage
- Thread starter KarenJeanLovesYHWH
- Start date
So what was the consensus of the post? Were there any interesting or thought provoking comments?
The post got over 700 comments. Mostly against the idea but there were some awesome people backing me up as well. I wasn’t as versed as I am now and even more so, I didn’t understand myself or what I wanted nor the deeper reasons for Polygyny so I wasn’t as good a witness then as I would be today.
See if you had known about us, you could have simply linked to the post, and we could have all chimed in.
it is certainly impirtand definitely ideal...crucial? Could be in many cases. But it is not a universal must have.
Super aware of it. In fact I think i have been modernly kind to the group in that I only go into my unconscious lecture mode on the topic as it relates to evolutionary psychology (one of my pet topics I have taken more than a little interest in for the last several years) and how the modern world is seeming insane with respect to creating artificial pressure to push differing groups together under the laughably transparent grift of creating "strength".
So, yeah...I know that unions of like and like are strongest. Not a new idea.
Where did you get the idea that I am looking for a Christian wife? I am fairly certain it was not from me.
To my memory, whether it was here, in a long defunct similar site or any other platform where I have discussed polygamy, my line has been along the lines of saying that while I do not have a faith that I am extremely aware of the value of faith and very happy to support a wife in her faith.
I may have even gone so far as to say that I prefer a woman who has faith. Not 100% on that though.
My reasons go back to my own point of view and understanding of my pet topic I mentioned earlier.
I do have a counter question here for you though.
Less in this environment though not entirely absent by any means but in other Christian/Biblical forums or the like, I have regularly encounter attitudes which wildly differ on who qualifies as Christian. I know that the Mormons get rather a lot of stick on the topic by way of example.
Consider if you will for a moment the position of an outsider looking in and consider that to an outsider that the many sects seem to have a lot of the central beliefs and messages in common but just vary in detail. In a few cases those details are enough to get one sect entirely rejected by other sects. You will likely be a far better content expert than I on this but I am fairly sure that the Jehova's witness and the Unitarians fall into that category. Of the three I can think of I only know enough to comment vaguely intelligently on the Mormons and that is more about liking there tight knit, family oriented and prepper friendly attitudes which I imagine stem from their faith but I am happy to be corrected.
So, with the fact that some sects reject other sects, is that going to make for a tougher match between those sects or do you think the oddball like me who has yet to be touched by anything but lauds faith broadly speaking is still a worse grenade to roll under the tent?
You're really looking for a morally conservative wife. You are considering a Christian one simply because where you live most atheist women are nuts, and it's only the Christians that have remained sane.
Ha! LOL! Are you telling me that your atheists are not lunatics with personalities like 40 grit sandpaper and drark triad traits out the wazoo? Cause I pay an enormous amount of attention to politics. Up to and including y'all's politics and I see so very much of the same lunacy and tyranny that is going on here and through all of the western world with what even I will call demonic intentions. My money is on if those bloody people have any sort of faith, that it has to do with horns and hooves.
And I can completely understand that attraction. But this conservative culture that you value can only be preserved by marrying those same Christian women off to other Christian men who will create Christian families that will continue that culture.
Hand waggle. Again, struggling to not go lecture mode. This is very much an evolutionary psychology linked issue so it is something that has been prominent in my mind for...lets call it a long time. I tend to see it as a bit of Column A and a bit of Column B. Yes it is ideal but as I noted earlier, not a requirement.
Woman were once seen as overt propery and traded between groups. Some would say like livestock, others would argue to cement alliances and maintain good will and others would point to the need to maintain fresh good as it were. Obviously not the case any longer but it was certainly within that sort of furnace that much of early Christians and their predecessors in faith were forged.
So while everyone will have their own variation and spin on how they see this topic, you will forgive my skepticism with respect to my not being a good choice for a Christian, a Mormon if we are to parse them out or some of the others above or to the side or another oddball who remains untouched by faith...suppose a sane atheist might be acceptable but if I would be a tougher sale than for some Christian woman...an atheist would be a harder sell for me. Some of them are rigid and dogmatic. This is where I would put in a smily face to show that the last remark amuses me but I don't know how to make them.
" Marrying outside the faith, even to a decent man, is the first step towards diluting the influence of Christianity on the culture, and ending up with the very liberal atheist culture that you despise."
(forgive the formatting in the reply going screwy. I was dictating a bit here and typing a bit there while working the smoker in the middle of the night and anytime I set the phone down to start swinging on and cursing the mosquitoes, the page refreshed on me and the format was weird)
I think that is far more of a case by case issue. I personally know plenty of guys who say they are a Christian and who have wives who are practicing and observant Christians and full on church ladies. The guys Never set foot in a church. Hells bells, they don't even show up for the potlucks where their wives made half the dishes and they are paying for it. I am pretty much describing the environment I grew up in in fact and I know I am not unique in my experience.
There are families that colour themselves as Christians and the kids are not baptized and the parents literally are not sure when beyond their wedding was the last time they were in a church...oh wait, yeah it was when they were in Italy and they went in so many of the cathedrals and quaint little churches to get pictures.
Fairly sure you get my point.
I am not the best choice for some Christian women...certainly. Am I the worst choice? Insert shrug here. Consider me bias on the topic.
I do know that if a wife's faith is important to her then it is important to me. That I will go to the potlucks and will likely take over in the kitchen as I like to cook. I am fine with baptism as well as religious instruction of children. That I would under those circumstances be more supportive than a lot of theoretically Christian husbands I have known.
Not perfect obviously but I have heard of worse.
oooooh no. You have misinterpreted somewhere. Significantly.
Do me the courtesy of not referring to me as an atheist again, of any stripe. You can think what you like obviously but I see that as an insult and don't like it being claimed publicly. As it is inaccurate and paints a picture for others that is extremely far from the mark.
You are simply closer to the issue than me. Or perhaps from a different point of view is more accurate.
I see it in terms of collapse cycles. I am looking at it on a longer time scale and not for one religion or culture.
Collapse of faith is one of the early harbingers of collapse. Long list of factors but collapse of faith is always leading the charge.
In a broader sense, what you are describing is a group loosing its asabiyyah (pronounced ah-sab-ee-yah). It is a concept of social solidarity with an emphasis on unity, group consciousness, a sense of shared purpose and social cohesion. Used in the context of tribalism and clanism.
This is very much my meat and potatoes. Not the fodder of culturally Christian atheists. I will put my sense of asabiyyah against anyone's.
Keep in mind that you brought this up and that I would not have broached it otherwise. Also thst it is not a shot at Christians.
I am seeing in broad terms the opposite. I see the Christian faith being weaponized against them in the form of tolerance and shaming by way of manipulation and inculcation with maladsptive and frankly suicidal ideas.. It is being used to extremely good effect by non Christians and people who to my mind are falsely claiming the faith to tear Christianity down...well, the entire civilized world in a massive power grab.
Can be far more specific but I will leave that for the tinfoil hat thread where we can pound on that sort of issue
Still assuming that it is an explicit search for conservative Christian woman and I don't believe I have ever said anything of the sort. Not adverse to it obviously as I mentiond. And certainly not why I am on the site. I am here as I have expressed on occasion, for conversation about polygamy. The nuts and bolts, the proverbial origin story where people figured out that it might be the right path for people walk or sometimes smirking and keeping my peace when I see overt grifts with respect to motives.
I am also here for fellowship with other people who I have a good number of intersection points even if I am walking
Your thesis seems to be based on a bunch of inaccurate assumptions. I get how they could come about. My simple presence here and having no issue with being the odd man out to start. I would argue however that if my explicit goal were to wrangle myself a conservative Christian woman, it would not be difficult for me to do a refresher on scripture and then simply pretend. I don't do anything of the sort even though showing a false face to one's partner is depressingly common. That is not my style or goals in the slightest. Just like finding explicitly a conservative Christian woman is not my goal.
I will tell you my goals so as to make sure there is no potential for misunderstanding.
I would like to find a good conservative woman who is looney enough to fall for me and smart enough to see the advantages of polygamy as well as the simple fact that it is how humanity has functioned for most of it's existence. A woman who can be best pals with my wife, who is enthusiastic about being a mom and who has the patience of Job as I am aware of how much of a trial I can be at times. Ideally one with a strong faith and willing to get on board with my plans for the family.
That is about it. My list of disqualifying features is vastly longer than my want list.
ut they are not just there to be enjoyed by one man, they have a crucially important job to preserve a society for all men. And this is why Christians have always been careful to try and marry their daughters off to other believers.
Not a Christian thing...that is an every faith thing under ideal circumstances. Well, the Abrahamic ones at minim
That is how the culture you love was preserved for centuries, and it is the only way to preserve it for the future. There have always been some Christian women married off to other men - even Muhammad married one I believe (which explains much of the Christian flavour of the Quran). But the majority must marry Christians in order to sustain the culture, and as they become rarer this becomes more crucial by the year.
I feel like the Pope sitting patiently in a pew while the choir takes it in turn to tell me about the trinity.
that is not ragging on you. That is me saying that you are trying to give me a lecture that I already pound on...sometimes in this environment. Maybe you have not seen those times,, I haven't read every post of yours so I presume it is something along those lines.
You can rest assured however that I understand the concept.
I would think that almost everyone who is not deluded by leftist inculcation and blinded by close exposure to gaslight understood these pretty basic notions so I am mildly surprised to be given the lesson.
More assumptions and no..
I will take well meaning advice phrased as a recommendation given in good faith. I don't accept any dictate pharsed as an order however... not from any man, ever.
We all have our issues that get our back up and this is one of mine.
I have a firm line with respect to courtesy and presuming to order another man steps beyond the boundaries of courtesy by my standards.
phrased ad if granting permission an an arbiter. Again, no..
y'all can obviously chat and decide I am too much of a nuisance and boot me from the site but that is about it. Up to y'all to determine if I am that much of a disrupting influence. I would not have thought so but points of view differ.
Regardless though, attempts to dictate to me will be met with a firm no. Just as I would expect you to do the same if I were to phase statements to you as an order.
Presenting me as if I am some sort of parasite when having made a bunch of inaccurate assumptions. I call that another swing and miss.
Glad to hear it. What you are demonstrating however is how very little you know about my own mission and that you are couching by structure my own goals as purely selfish as opposed to having an interest in the group as a whole.
As I mentioned earlier...I am not here fishing for wives. I am not opposed to meeting someone naturally...if I was however here expressly for trying to find a wife (on a non dating site)...as opposed to having sent several single woman to the site in hopes that they find their family...one might think the criticism and attempt at lessons more appropriate in trying to put woman off the idea of finding my attentions...which have not been directed at any woman here..than trying to actually explain ideas or concepts to me. Or perhaps just a warning off.
Neither of which to my mind is merited.
Post script
I did a quick scan and found several typographical errors or word substitutions from poor parsing of voice to text but I suspect many were missed. It was a long and broken reply and I am far from perfect even if it is something as basic as proofreading
From your last post, where you stated it directly. It was this sentence which my post was in response to:
Nope. That is not me saying I am looking for a Christian wife.
That is simply a preference expressed out of potential woman that might be mad enough to become interested.
Think of it like this, I have little to no cultural intersection with any other broad religious groups. So at minimum something to talk about and some common ground. And having a serious jones for early history you might think well, he could go chase one of those neo-pagan types or some such.
Yeah, not so much.
Dated one very briefly and if I am honest, I am glad that she got butt-hurt when she tried to play alpha type art my wife and wife never even noticed. So, she scampered off...lot of weardness. In large part having to do with her trying to explain her belief set...system...er religion? Mainly it was me squinting quizzically at her or cocking my head like a confused dog.
Only part that got through to me was that she and a bunch of her female friends wanted to use my land regularly a ceremony of some sort that involved dancing and gibberish naked round a campfire.
Lol...was not down with it and could you imagine how little time it would take the zany pagan with stars runes and glitter on her dace and her antlers on crooked to get quite tiresome.
In the end my biggest preference if for to have the focus on morals, values and commitment to the family that reflect my own. If that turns up as a Christian then great, I will go to potlucks. If she is Shinto...I suppose I learn what goes on in Shinto and try to be supportive.
Just no girls that carry tarot cards just in case of emergency...oh, or little red Mao books.
Y'all are just thinking inside the box.
At the heart of the conversation is a woman seeking/considering polygamy. At the heart of much of polygamy is safety and stability.
Given that the theoretical derailment was still on the topic of safety and the potential future challenges to a family, I figure it dovetails right in.
Plus one could say that one of the initial questions with respect to whether or not single woman have a problem with being "arrogant and prideful or needy with baggage" seemes to my admittedly lateral thinking to be a commentary on not being willing to adjust to or see the modern difficulties which a more traditional polygamist families can help to reduce. And if we are discussing threats to the modern way of life and family....what is more natural than discussing potential apocalypse and their mechanisms?
Totally makes sense
At the heart of the conversation is a woman seeking/considering polygamy. At the heart of much of polygamy is safety and stability.
Given that the theoretical derailment was still on the topic of safety and the potential future challenges to a family, I figure it dovetails right in.
Plus one could say that one of the initial questions with respect to whether or not single woman have a problem with being "arrogant and prideful or needy with baggage" seemes to my admittedly lateral thinking to be a commentary on not being willing to adjust to or see the modern difficulties which a more traditional polygamist families can help to reduce. And if we are discussing threats to the modern way of life and family....what is more natural than discussing potential apocalypse and their mechanisms?
Totally makes sense
Profound....truly profound! I've never seen a discussion on theoretical derailment before, and its links to safety and the potential future challenges to a family. Gads man, I think you've discovered the answer to the $64 Million Dollar question.
I will never hesitate to derail a thread, if it has the potential of leading a person to Christ.
So.. if you could just show me which window to claim the check
64M would set up a big family up in the mountains on a nice ranch where we could live out my Bert Gummer come Calvin Webber come Alex Jones'esque life.
I bet I could even have a mote
I think I would have to disagree with you. I believe Messiah is The Word and that He keeps His promises. His Word Promises to Provide for the Fatherless and Widows. His Word Promises His Love and Mercy. I could keep going but YHWH LOVES IT when we remind Him of His Word. Not necessarily in an entitled bratty way, but even if we do come across this way He still keeps His Word. Why? Because His Promises don’t come with “I’ll do this as long as you do that.” Now the blessings and curses are DIFFERENT than this Promises, just to be clear.
I will agree with you that entitlement can be off putting for sure but it doesn’t make it wrong. Holding men up to the expectation that is very clearly written is not wrong by any means. The Word says you should be doing this thing and if you’re not doing this thing then you are in disobedience. I’m not saying “if you don’t give me money you’re in sin” that’s wrong. What I am saying is that if there is someone in your life, even someone that you just know about, that is suffering and you’re able to help but choose not to because of this excuse or even because of that pretty good reason, then you’re in violation.
If we call ourselves a ministry but yet we don’t have the provisions set aside for the windows and orphans then we’re in violation.
If you’re a man in Faith then you’ve been called to provide and protect and if you aren’t doing this FIRST for your own family and then giving alms to those in need then you’re in violation. Sadly most men and women give their money to a church who already is established secured and provided for but yet they ignore the struggling single mother in the pew next to them. They’ll write a $100 check to the church but won’t buy new work boots for the man sitting next them who is struggling to make ends meet. Not because they wouldn’t do it if they were asked but simply because they’ve been programmed to give to those who already have and to question ignore and distrust those in need while simultaneously being convinced to trust the church to spend they’re hard earned money on what’s important. And therein lies the question “and what is important”?
Someone will write a $5000 check to a pastor yet let a single mother walk to work. Or ignore the widow’s kitchen sink that needs to be replaced. They’ll write a check to fix something in the church building but won’t pay for someone’s specific needs in the church and when those people ask for help “it’s not in the budget”.
Calling men to be men isn’t wrong, it’s biblical.
Calling women to be women isn’t wrong, it’s biblical. Calling the church to be a church isn’t wrong it’s biblical.
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Have you contacted Alex and the ministry I sent contact info for?I think I would have to disagree with you. I believe Messiah is The Word and that He keeps His promises. His Word Promises to Provide for the Fatherless and Widows. His Word Promises His Love and Mercy. I could keep going but YHWH LOVES IT when we remind Him of His Word. Not necessarily in an entitled bratty way, but even if we do come across this way He still keeps His Word. Why? Because His Promises don’t come with “I’ll do this as long as you do that.” Now the blessings and curses are DIFFERENT than this Promises, just to be clear.
I will agree with you that entitlement can be off putting for sure but it doesn’t make it wrong. Holding men up to the expectation that is very clearly written is not wrong by any means. The Word says you should be doing this thing and if you’re not doing this thing then you are in disobedience. I’m not saying “if you don’t give me money you’re in sin” that’s wrong. What I am saying is that if there is someone in your life, even someone that you just know about, that is suffering and you’re able to help but choose not to because of this excuse or even because of that pretty good reason, then you’re in violation.
If we call ourselves a ministry but yet we don’t have the provisions set aside for the windows and orphans then we’re in violation.
If you’re a man in Faith then you’ve been called to provide and protect and if you aren’t doing this FIRST for your own family and then giving alms to those in need then you’re in violation. Sadly most men and women give their money to a church who already is established secured and provided for but yet they ignore the struggling single mother in the pew next to them. They’ll write a $100 check to the church but won’t buy new work boots for the man sitting next them who is struggling to make ends meet. Not because they wouldn’t do it if they were asked but simply because they’ve been programmed to give to those who already have and to question ignore and distrust those in need while simultaneously being convinced to trust the church to spend they’re hard earned money on what’s important. And therein lies the question “and what is important”?
Someone will write a $5000 check to a pastor yet let a single mother walk to work. Or ignore the widow’s kitchen sink that needs to be replaced. They’ll write a check to fix something in the church building but won’t pay for someone’s specific needs in the church and when those people ask for help “it’s not in the budget”.
Calling men to be men isn’t wrong, it’s biblical.
I did not, I have had an opportunity to move on the property of a 75 year old widow who really needs some help. I am very blessed for this opportunity at this time but I have the information and I am truly grateful for the resource.
First of all, I want to say thank you for risking vulnerability to share your experience and relay your question.This is a commenti made in Pete Rambo’s telegram group that I thought I would share here as well:
Last night I had a conversation with a gentleman last night and when I asked him about Polygyny he had a pretty long response of course but one of the things he said was “Most of the single women looking to get into Polygyny are either super prideful and arrogant or super needy with baggage.
I’d like to hear your thoughts on this.
For myself I will have to say I am a single mom never married with lots of needs and coming out of Babylon I am carrying some heavy burdens. Maybe I would consider myself even a rescue mission of sorts but that would only be in the beginning right? Finding a wife is finding a treasure so couldn’t you refine the woman the same way you would if you found a raw gem?
I’m just concerned because it seems like most men are looking for a perfect woman or unicorn when in all reality the men are called to take wives they don’t necessarily want. Brothers were forced to take deceased brothers wives. Widows (regardless of age) were provided for. The fatherless, like myself and my son, were supposed to be taken in and provided for.
It seems like the men may have some Babylonian baggage as well thinking they should have 18 year old virgins. It’s prideful thinking and it grieves me that not more men are looking to “rescue” us daughters of Zion from the dark valleys of Babylon.
Anyways, just some thoughts I hope to edify
Unfortunately, his response is true. The fact is that most people in general are prideful and arrogant and we pretty much come with a luggage rack full of baggage if not storage containers full. This tends to bleed over heavily into our community of believers. However, the good news is, we as believers have a leg up. We are trying to become more like our master Yehoshua (Jesus). Many of us are trying to allow YHWH to help us off load our baggage. The fact is that in this day and age, finding a bride who is willing to be submissive to YHWH by being submissive to her husband is not easy. I suppose, if it were easy, she would not be considered a treasure "more precious than gold and fine gem stones". I would much rather have earthly treasures than a quarrelsome wife, but a woman who will raise my children in the ways of YHWH; SHE IS INVALUBLE!!! I would say that a righteous man who is willing to lead his wife courageously in the fruits of Ruah Ha Qodesh (The Righteous Spirit) is probably harder to find than is a righteous woman.
So many people widowed and orphaned because of the evil of this current world we live in. If you are truly seeking a husband who will lead you in the ways of our Master, be patient. There are not many men truly capable and willing to do so. Wile you are waiting, be in prayer and ask the All Mighty to teach you to purify yourself and to prepare you for your bridegroom.
Sounds like that statement was foolish and a false dilemma that can bring unreasonable shame or guilt to someone. Sweeping generalizations like that are based on stereotypes and assumptions, and fail to acknowledge the diversity of the human experience. You made some great points and I think that the more men lean into and apply the wisdom literature of Scripture, the better we'd all be. Prov 15:2 comes to mind.
Wow, the multiple derailments here were a thing of beauty, if you like a twisted, intertwined, mess. I did my best in 2 hours, there's a new "Einstein" thread here: https://www.biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/some-einstein-sh-tuff-science-discussion.17485/
And some of the worst silliness in this thread had to go to make the split make any sense - sorry. Too bad there's not a way for posters to mark their own comments to self destruct after a week. I'll delete this comment eventually too, since it's now not applicable either.
You guys may regret making me comfortable thread editing again.
This thread is unlocked. It was important, let's try to keep it on track (though it's now rolled back 2 months to the last relevant posts.)
And some of the worst silliness in this thread had to go to make the split make any sense - sorry. Too bad there's not a way for posters to mark their own comments to self destruct after a week. I'll delete this comment eventually too, since it's now not applicable either.
You guys may regret making me comfortable thread editing again.
This thread is unlocked. It was important, let's try to keep it on track (though it's now rolled back 2 months to the last relevant posts.)
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