Prayer request Upcoming conversation with my pastor about polygamy

[Happyhen]

How did the meeting go with your pastor?

 

[Bartato]

I think the conversation went fairly well yesterday. We both remained calm, rational, kind, and respectful. That itself seems like an answer to prayer. We talked for about two hours. I shared scripture after scripture with him, from the teaching of Christ, from Paul, from Torah, from the prophets, and from the narrative passages, and I could see that he was really thinking about the issues I was raising.

He admitted that I have clearly studied the Bible far more deeply in regard to this issue than he has.

He certainly did not fall to his knees and admit that he has been wrong or anything. I don't think I changed his mind, but I did my best to plant some truth seeds in there. Now I pray that God will cause these Bible truth seeds to grow.

Keep in mind that I am functioning under the assumption that he is a genuine born again believer. I really think he is, and if he is, then the truth of God's written Word should reverberate in his heart, and the Holy Spirit will work in him.

I thank you all for praying! I do believe the Lord helped me.

 

[Interstellar]

I'm scheduled to have another talk with my pastor regarding polygamy in a few days. I request that you pray for the following.

1. Please pray that I will speak clearly and accurately from Scripture, and do so in a way that is bold, and firm, yet also gentle, kind, and respectful.

It is easy for things to get heated and I want to avoid that.

2. Please pray that the Lord will graciously open my pastor's eyes, ears, heart, and mind to humbly receive and submit to what the Bible teaches regarding this issue, and that he would no longer be blinded.

Please also pray that my pastor would start moving towards Biblical patriarchy and away from the compromised position of Complementarianism.

3. Please pray that the Lord would graciously fill my brother the pastor with such holy and reverent fear of God, and faith in, and love for the Lord Jesus Christ, that the earthly fear of man (and woman) will be swept away

4. Please pray that the Lord will grant him the courage and integrity to deal truthfully with the issue.

5. Please pray that hat my wife will not have any fear or dread about this visit

We've been kicked out of church before and it isn't fun.

I have spoken with this pastor (and the entire elder board) regarding polygamy some years back. I laid out the evidence and also presented them with a variety of digital resources (Tom Shipley, Martin Madan, Bill Luck, etc). I doubt they seriously considered these materials.

They didn't get it, and basically repeated all the normal talking points.

The power of God is needed here. I know it is beyond my control. Humanly speaking, I would despair of talking with him, but I also know that God is exceedingly powerful. God does change hearts and minds. He has done it to me, and He can do it for my brother.

The thing that brought the topic up again is that the pastor is currently preaching through 1st and 2nd Samuel. Clearly there are passages in these books that relate to polygamy.

Overall, the pastor has downplayed polygamy, which is probably good, as it generally isn't the point of the passage. It's usually going on in the background.

He has however made a couple of problematic statements. At one point, he mentioned David's "sin of polygamy" being married to both Ahinoam and Abigail. He also recently suggested that David violated Deuteronomy 17:17 when taking additional wives after becoming king.

I can't let stuff like that slide. I don't want him to mislead God's people, or incur guilt for teaching error. As a brother, I am required to help keep him on track.

As many of you know, I am less enthusiastic about polygamy than most here, having had a heart change on the issue about a year ago. It is my belief that monogamy is normally preferable, but I cannot deny the obvious fact that the Bible treats polygamy as lawful marriage and not as adultery or sexual immorality.

Denying this fact causes us to fall into a multitude of other errors, and I don't want that for our church.

Thank you

My view on the subject is that the message Jesus tried to convey to us is that all God wants us to do is to be good human beings. Treat others with kindness, respect, love, and justice. The core of what Jesus taught is beautifully summed up in the Sermon on the Mount. Read that and you will understand what God has asked of us.

In different circumstances, doing good in the world and doing good for others means different things. There can be cases where polygamy is best for all concerned, and other cases where monogamy is the right thing. It all depends on the environment, the people, and the circumstances one finds themselves in. I do not think that God has given us any hard and fast "rules" that must be adhered to in all situations. That is far too inflexible, and God knows that.

I know that this viewpoint is far from the Christian mainstream, but that is a good thing. The Christian mainstream is far from God's word. I don't even bother asking anything from pastors, ministers, priests, etc. Most of them do not have a clue what the message of Jesus is. I believe that Divinity schools take in good men, scramble their brains to the point that nothing is left, and send out as little clones - ready to enforce church doctrine regardless of how well it is aligned with God's word. Rather, I get my wisdom from the Gospels (with the Old Testament as a far lesser backdrop).

Therefore, my recommendation is to ask yourself and the others involved with the decision what is really best for all. If something is best for all, then that is what God wants you to do. If not, then God might have you do something else. Just be honest with yourself and with others, keep an open mind, and allow God's wisdom to speak the truth to you.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

My view on the subject is that the message Jesus tried to convey to us is that all God wants us to do is to be good human beings. Treat others with kindness, respect, love, and justice. The core of what Jesus taught is beautifully summed up in the Sermon on the Mount. Read that and you will understand what God has asked of us.

In different circumstances, doing good in the world and doing good for others means different things. There can be cases where polygamy is best for all concerned, and other cases where monogamy is the right thing. It all depends on the environment, the people, and the circumstances one finds themselves in. I do not think that God has given us any hard and fast "rules" that must be adhered to in all situations. That is far too inflexible, and God knows that.

I know that this viewpoint is far from the Christian mainstream, but that is a good thing. The Christian mainstream is far from God's word. I don't even bother asking anything from pastors, ministers, priests, etc. Most of them do not have a clue what the message of Jesus is. I believe that Divinity schools take in good men, scramble their brains to the point that nothing is left, and send out as little clones - ready to enforce church doctrine regardless of how well it is aligned with God's word. Rather, I get my wisdom from the Gospels (with the Old Testament as a far lesser backdrop).

Therefore, my recommendation is to ask yourself and the others involved with the decision what is really best for all. If something is best for all, then that is what God wants you to do. If not, then God might have you do something else. Just be honest with yourself and with others, keep an open mind, and allow God's wisdom to speak the truth to you.

In the Sermon on the Mt, Jesus is quoted as saying "Be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect".

 

[NBTX11]

@Bartato All you can do is share what the Bible says. Hopefully he had a receptive spirit and an open mind. God has to change hearts. You can’t do it by winning a debate. Good to hear that he listened to what you have to say and I pray that the word fell on good ground.

 

[Bartato]

@Bartato All you can do is share what the Bible says. Hopefully he had a receptive spirit and an open mind. God has to change hearts. You can’t do it by winning a debate. Good to hear that he listened to what you have to say and I pray that the word fell on good ground.

That's right. It is between God and him. I shared a bunch of Biblical truth. I cannot change a heart or mind. The Holy Spirit of God does that.