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Vetting a single woman.

The more fundamental question is, why are you pursuing polygamy? For yourself? Or for others?

If you are seeking women because of what they can do for you, ie for your own gratification, then lists make logical sense. They are a list of your preferences and desires.

If however you see polygamy as a way to help others, the focus is no longer "what do I want in a woman", but "what can I offer a woman"? Such lists then become irrelevant.

I feel most people start with such lists. But if they are considering polygamy from a Christian perspective, the list gets shorter and eventually disappears. Because they are no longer seeking their own will, but rather God's, and would not want to miss what He instructed because it was different to their own personal list.
 
Cap said:
I would think those outside the church would have no issue with this part.
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You'd think so but no they pass them up for that, finding them too much trouble, even for something as transitory and casual as that.
 
FollowingHim said:
The more fundamental question is, why are you pursuing polygamy? For yourself? Or for others?

If you are seeking women because of what they can do for you, ie for your own gratification, then lists make logical sense. They are a list of your preferences and desires.

If however you see polygamy as a way to help others, the focus is no longer "what do I want in a woman", but "what can I offer a woman"? Such lists then become irrelevant.

I feel most people start with such lists. But if they are considering polygamy from a Christian perspective, the list gets shorter and eventually disappears. Because they are no longer seeking their own will, but rather God's, and would not want to miss what He instructed because it was different to their own personal list.
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Now it depends on what kind of list we're talking about.

This kind of list:

5'7" (no more no less), bob cut hair, brown eyes, red hair, 36-24-36, a college degree from a Div 1 school, 1 brother and 2 sisters, from a upper class family who grew up in Boston but hates the Reds (cause you're a Yankee fan)

Yep, you're just being picky. But a lot of vetting is different than that. It's not about personal preferences and desires, but about avoiding women who will ruin your life, take you to the cleaners, and destroy your children's lives. About finding a woman who will make a suitable wife able to pair bond and form a healthy relationship.

So, just because cluster B Betty with two rugrats in tow is making a mess of her life and is about to be evicted yet again, doesn't mean it's a wise idea for you to be a knight in shining armor and rescue her. Yes she needs help. But yes, there's a good chance she'll make a wreckage of your, and your children's, life too.

And it's not wrong to have preferences. If you like brunettes and blonds don't do anything for you, it's not wise to marry a blonde. You're not just a pack mule, it's ok to want to marry a woman you're attracted too. But one can be too picky too. Balance.
 
@Cap I do hope that the single moms find the right circumstances for their children and themselves. To my mind a polygamous family would be a very good route for these mothers to take, especially if their child(ren) are quite young. Growing up as a single child of a mom on hee own can really suck. Daycare for example may be a necessity in so many cases but it is so much of the time just horrible and the alternative is the whole latchkey kid scenario. I have a lot of exceptionally strong opinions in this area... both about the kids and the mom's of those kids, in large part because I was one of those kids. So I definitely DO hope they find their homes without a doubt but it is also because I lived through a lot of what goes on in those circumstances that I know that I would probably not be the best person to act as their proverbial height knight as it were. So like I said, I know it sounds harsh but I really do have my reasons and they are not all about me and my preferences by some significant margin.
@rockfox with respect to casual sex with single moms... I know that opinions will differ but on a personal level I would hope that were I single that I would not be that guy either. I would far prefer to see those women happily married and those kids with a dad than my getting the opportunity to put another notch on my bedpost. I will not claim to have always thought this way but I decided at the beginning of my plural marriage quest that I had a lot of changes to make in my character to deserve multiple wives. So now my moral compass would point me away from that sort of interaction were I single and or were it an option somehow.
 
@Cap cluster B Betty? I don't know what the B is but the whole thing sounds amusing and made me smile.

I have a tonne of preferences were we to talk drilled down list but one of the things that I realized about lists other than my original one I made that was just focused on practical stuff, is that they are useless in my case. I have wide array of tastes and interests and there does not exist any one woman who is or can be my ideal other than in the more broad terms like loving, loyal and intelligent for example. I imagine that I am not alone in this regard.
 
paterfamilias said:
@Cap cluster B Betty? I don't know what the B is but the whole thing sounds amusing and made me smile.

I have a tonne of preferences were we to talk drilled down list but one of the things that I realized about lists other than my original one I made that was just focused on practical stuff, is that they are useless in my case. I have wide array of tastes and interests and there does not exist any one woman who is or can be my ideal other than in the more broad terms like loving, loyal and intelligent for example. I imagine that I am not alone in this regard.
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Who's Cluster B Betty?

She might be married to a guy named Transference.

All I know is that my lists starts with, God, Your Will be done.
 
Cap said:
Who's Cluster B Betty?

She might be married to a guy named Transference.
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Why so quick with the personal insults?

This isn't about me. It's about the fact that just because someone's life is wreck, doesn't mean it's a wise thing for you to come in and try and help them. Cluster B refers to a DSM classification set of mental illnesses (e.g. Borderline, Narcissistic, Histronic, Antisocial), many of which probably can't be cured, the suffers of which in several cases have a well earned reputation for destroying peoples lives and is inheritable. They aren't victims in need of your help, they may well be extremely dangerous. (technically they are victims of mental illness, but not of some external factors you can help)

The tendency to view women as victims and not as moral actors in their own lives leads people to overlook the fact that our lives are often the result of the choices we make. A person with a wreck of a life may be a victim. Or they may have a history of making bad choices which will carry over into your life if you marry them. You won't fix them, you'll only spread the damage to your family. I've heard the retort that this is just evidence they need a patriarch. But this ignores the reality of our society; there is little you can do to stop them from ruining your life if they choose; the full force and power of the state is behind them.

Notice I said wise and probably. There are always exceptions and maybe your calling is different than mind. And don't take it from this I'm expecting perfection in the life of a woman; I'm talking of wisdom, which includes wise evaluation of the women. But cluster B types are an easy example of an unwise move. For me the question of vetting is the question of finding a women who is likely to fit in well with the dynamic I've set for my family, be a help to my mission, and not be destructive to those ends. I don't see men as primarily pack mules for women. But if you feel your mission in life is to help women whose lives are a wreck, go with God. But don't think you're some innocent victim when she blows it all up.

I'm not talking about some insignificant fraction of women here. 1-6% of all adults could be diagnosed borderline, 10% with mental illness. In one study some 25% of all US adults have a subclinical subset of symptoms (higher for women since they are disproportionately affected). These rates go up for singles, jobless, etc. If you're honing in on women who need help; your chances will go up. Especially since some such women target men like you; some with the full conscious intention of using and destroying you. And if you see your mission as helping women, you need to be cognizant of that risk.
 
rockfox said:
Why so quick with the personal insults?

This isn't about me. It's about the fact that just because someone's life is wreck, doesn't mean it's a wise thing for you to come in and try and help them. Cluster B refers to a DSM classification set of mental illnesses (e.g. Borderline, Narcissistic, Histronic, Antisocial), many of which probably can't be cured, the suffers of which in several cases have a well earned reputation for destroying peoples lives and is inheritable. They aren't victims in need of your help, they may well be extremely dangerous. (technically they are victims of mental illness, but not of some external factors you can help)

The tendency to view women as victims and not as moral actors in their own lives leads people to overlook the fact that our lives are often the result of the choices we make. A person with a wreck of a life may be a victim. Or they may have a history of making bad choices which will carry over into your life if you marry them. You won't fix them, you'll only spread the damage to your family. I've heard the retort that this is just evidence they need a patriarch. But this ignores the reality of our society; there is little you can do to stop them from ruining your life if they choose; the full force and power of the state is behind them.

Notice I said wise and probably. There are always exceptions and maybe your calling is different than mind. And don't take it from this I'm expecting perfection in the life of a woman; I'm talking of wisdom, which includes wise evaluation of the women. But cluster B types are an easy example of an unwise move. For me the question of vetting is the question of finding a women who is likely to fit in well with the dynamic I've set for my family, be a help to my mission, and not be destructive to those ends. I don't see men as primarily pack mules for women. But if you feel your mission in life is to help women whose lives are a wreck, go with God. But don't think you're some innocent victim when she blows it all up.

I'm not talking about some insignificant fraction of women here. 1-6% of all adults could be diagnosed borderline, 10% with mental illness. In one study some 25% of all US adults have a subclinical subset of symptoms (higher for women since they are disproportionately affected). These rates go up for singles, jobless, etc. If you're honing in on women who need help; your chances will go up. Especially since some such women target men like you; some with the full conscious intention of using and destroying you. And if you see your mission as helping women, you need to be cognizant of that risk.
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Bit of confusion going on here.

I do understand your point and do realize, BELIEVE ME I REALIZE, that there are some really screwed up people (women as far as I am concerned) that are out there and really can screw up a family. They are still on this forum so I know what you're talking about.
 
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I think one of the most important things to think about in “vetting” someone (and this goes both directions) is that you are choosing someone’s father or mother. It’s ok to have standards! As human beings we don’t get to choose our parents, other people do that for us. When you are picking a spouse you’re picking someone’s parent, so choose wisely.
 
Cap said:
They are still on this forum so I know what you're talking about.
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Not sure what you're talking about so let me make something clear. I'm simply talking general principles here; there is no subtext to be read into my comment about anyone in particular; I'm not slyly referring to any woman here. Nor are mental health issues solely about women; men can suffer from all of these too. Through there are different rates of prevalence between the sexes for different classifications (borderlines being women 2:1, in a clinical context anyway).
 
Cap said:
I understand what you are saying, and as far as the individual needs of a particular family go, I get your point. But I do assume that the concept of "beyond the society large and agreeing that polygamy is indeed a good direction" is an important part of why you are here. To share your experiences, and hopefully broaden the minds of those who have come to see that this lifestyle has purpose. My only point to add to the discussion was to bring out the idea that a lot of us here are doing this because of a 'higher' calling, if you will, and that may include relationships that others may find difficult to accept. It may be your preference to not increase the size of your family, I get that, but the statement you made was "No mothers. I realize some will find me harsh on some subjects but this is one of my hard stances." which implied that there was more to it than family size. To each his own, but I just wanted to make sure that the single mothers out there looking for Godly homes, know that there are still possibilities.
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Here is a thought on having a higher calling, which is where I feel called to participate: How many men out there wrestle with the notion of leaving their current wife in order to marry the other woman? By living this lifestyle, we can present to those men a third option, albeit not an easy option, when it comes to getting their current wife to "buy in", but could be the means to save a marriage that needs not go to ruin.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Here is a thought on having a higher calling, which is where I feel called to participate: How many men out there wrestle with the notion of leaving their current wife in order to marry the other woman? By living this lifestyle, we can present to those men a third option, albeit not an easy option, when it comes to getting their current wife to "buy in", but could be the means to save a marriage that needs not go to ruin.
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Never have I thought about leaving @Judgemenot for another 'needy' woman, however, most of my adult life I have been conflicted over how to handle and help single ladies who needed more than a listening ear. When the Father finally unfolded polygyny as perfectly Biblical and an act of righteousness I began to understand my own heart and one aspect of my personal calling. This became incredibly freeing, but has also led to massive growth in other areas for both of us as Yah takes us where I believe He is taking us. Literally, as I read Pilkington's Great Omission I felt the shackles of Western cultural monogamy only indoctrination fall off and I was/am a new man with the freedom to draw near to any single woman for closer interpersonal relationship and help. One day Yah may bring one or two closer for full covering.

So, yes, @Daniel DeLuca , we do have a solution that takes time to bring into play, but this is why we are called and here to learn, grow and maybe model Biblical Marriage.
 
I guess I better put my list up here

If someone was to be considered as a potential wife she must first be not currently married to another man (also cannot be tied to him with joint custody of children if applicable) second she must be a believer in the faith, third she must be willing to submit to her future husband and assimilate to my house and the direction I am going, fourth, I would need to find her in some way attractive.
 
PeteR said:
Never have I thought about leaving @Judgemenot for another 'needy' woman, however, most of my adult life I have been conflicted over how to handle and help single ladies who needed more than a listening ear. When the Father finally unfolded polygyny as perfectly Biblical and an act of righteousness I began to understand my own heart and one aspect of my personal calling. This became incredibly freeing, but has also led to massive growth in other areas for both of us as Yah takes us where I believe He is taking us. Literally, as I read Pilkington's Great Omission I felt the shackles of Western cultural monogamy only indoctrination fall off and I was/am a new man with the freedom to draw near to any single woman for closer interpersonal relationship and help. One day Yah may bring one or two closer for full covering.

So, yes, @Daniel DeLuca , we do have a solution that takes time to bring into play, but this is why we are called and here to learn, grow and maybe model Biblical Marriage.
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Well then I wouldn't be trying to show a man like you that there is another option, since you would not be one of the men I described.
 
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