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Advice on my response to a ministry about PM

seekHim1

Member
Hello everyone! I'm all riled up today trying to respond to a ministry I wrote the other month about the issue of PM. At the time, I already felt the LORD telling me I was to follow my husband in this way of life for our family, but I was still wrestling and was just curious what this ministry would say. I always admired its bold stance on how a woman should obey her husband in just about anything, so I thought perhaps they would confirm what the LORD was telling me. Not surprisingly, they did not confirm that at all and because of that, I feel I should write to them because I would hate to see them advise other women the way they have advised me. Of course, feel free to let me know if you think I am wasting my time.

My original question was simply, do I obey my husband in him wanting to take another wife and compared it to how Sara had to go along with Abraham not telling the whole truth that she was also his wife. Even IF my husband was wrong, should I be like Sara and just obey? This was the initial response from a man:

Thank you for writing to NGJ and to the Pearls. The Pearls regret that due to their heavy workload that they are not able to respond to each email personally. Jesus makes in plain in Matthew 19:5 His intent in marriage and it does not include polygamy. Polygamy is the result of the hardness of man's heart. Your analogy to Sara is incorrect in that she brought Hagar to Abraham and he relented to her wishes. This sin is not an area God would expect you to obey your husband.
This is what I wrote back at that time:

Thank you for your response. I did not expect to hear from the Pearls personally. As far as my analogy to Sara, I was referring to how Debi talks in her book about when Abraham lied twice and Sara was taken by other men. She obeyed even though he was wrong. In this case, I would not be committing any sin by enduring polygyny and unconditionally loving my husband and not taking our children and leaving even if I am uncomfortable with the situation. I would consider it enduring grief and suffering like in 1 Peter. Second, I do not find that polgyny is a sin in the Bible. The only thing is by law, a man cannot have more than one wife in our country, but we know that God ordains marriage, not man so my husband is able to be committed to two women and he is not sinning as long as he does not try to have the government endorse both marriages.

I do not feel the LORD has given me permission to leave my husband even if he goes through with this. Perhaps others would be allowed to, but I do not feel at peace with that. If polygyny is not God's will, then I have to trust Him to change my husband's heart. But even if it is wrong in God's eyes, should a wife leave her husband simply because he is in love with another woman? Or would this be part of enduring grief that Michael Pearl talks about?

A woman wrote me the following in response:

The advice that Chuck gave you is where we stand as a ministry, we are not out to change your mind on what you believe. We'll let the scriptures speak for themselves.I Timothy 3:2 list the qualifications to be a bishop, husband of one wife tops the list. Also in I Timothy5:9 it says for a widow to receive help from the church she had to have been a wife of one man. From an historical standpoint, Polygamy did not seem to be a problem in the church at that time. Historians tell us that it is doubtful that polygamy was practiced by the Romans and Greeks of that time. Paul was prohibiting polygamy and polyandry, based on the scriptures stated above, also it was not reported to have occurred during that time and geographic location. I know Dr. Griffith, he pastored a sister church to the one my husband, I and our family attended when we lived in PA. He is a very conservative Bible teacher and does not teach that polygamy is an option. I did not see where he teaches that the marriage convent is just between you and God. That is an all together different subject anyway, that has nothing to with polygamy. Thank you for your thoughts.

I went to Dr. Griffith's website and found this on his blog. Heather if your husband marries another woman he'll be breaking the law of man and of God. I am so sorry that you have to face this issue, especially since you were not expecting it. You may just have to let him go. I would not let my husband have the best of both worlds, I have to much respect for myself then that and you should too, don't let him play a games with you.Pat Monday, December 3, 2007 I recently spoke at Millersville University at a Campus Bible Fellowship meeting. We discussed relationships. I asked the students if they thought bigamy should be accepted in our society. Then I asked about polygamy, group marriages, an adult marrying a child or a human marrying a dog. One asked about other cultures where polygamy is commonly practiced. The young lady wanted to know if we dared say such a cultural practice is wrong for the people of that culture. Our answer, of course, is that it wrong for everyone. The reason being that God has ordained certain relationships as appropriate and certain others as wrong. He has the right to do that and He has clearly spoken on the issue. Another student asked about homosexuality. We made it clear that God has ordained that physical intimacy is wrong outside of the marriage of one man to one woman. All other such relationships including bigamy, polygamy, homosexuality or whatever we might come up with next are outside of God's plan. Amazingly the next day, Nov. 13, 2007, it was reported online that a man in India married a dog. So much for what other cultures might accept. But why are these things wrong? If we take the Bible out of the picture for evaluating right and wrong any one of the perverions mentioned earlier might very well find acceptance. In fact our society is on its way to the worst of perversions, because we are on our way to total rejection of the Bible. Watch and see what happens in the years ahead of us.

Since I last wrote to them, I have become more solid in my views in all this (thanks in part to BF ;) ). Here is what I've come up with for my response:

My Spirit is terribly grieved by your e-mails and I pray you will read and pray about all I am writing to you. I would lovingly plead with No Greater Joy and Mike and Debi Pearl to seek the LORD and His Word on this issue before giving other women the advice you have given me. Before I wrote to NGJ, I already sensed in my Spirit what the LORD was telling me and I thought perhaps NGJ would confirm that just based on everything Mike and Debi wrote in "Created to Be His Help Meet". Unfortunately, that was not the case. Why is that unfortunate? Because NGJ will be contributing to tearing families apart in giving such advice and that is scary ground to be treading on. Many women most likely consider advice coming from NGJ to be the word of God and would therefore heed it rather than leaving room that NGJ is a ministry made up and men and women who only "know in part."

I understand your line of thinking because I felt the same way until I realized I had been reading my Bible through glasses with western American Christian lenses. If one would simply take the Bible for what it says, it is quite clear that polgyny (a husband having more than wife) is totally acceptable with God as are monogamy or celibacy. And after much prayer and study, the LORD changed my heart to get on my husband's page and accept that this is God's plan for our family.

Regarding the verses you referenced (1 Timothy 3) where Paul lays out the qualifications for a bishop or a deacon: First off, if you take those verses at face value, he is not condemning a man having more than one wife. He is only saying that to be in leadership, a man should have only one wife. So, that would tell you right there it was normal for a man to have more than one wife. Secondly, words are often mistranslated from the Hebrew or Greek to English. If you look up "one" in those verses, it can mean "first". In that case, a bishop or deacon should be the husband of his "first" wife, meaning, he should not divorce or put away his first wife in order to take others. This would go along with Malachi 2 when it discusses why God hates divorce b/c a man deals treacherously with the "wife of his youth." A man should not put away the wife of his youth to have another wife...he should love all his wives and God even gives instructions on this in Exodus 21:10 which says, "If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish." If God considers polygyny wrong, why would He give instructions on how to go about it?

And as far as the quotes from Dr. Griffith, how bold to say polygyny is wrong for everyone. Were Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, Elkanah, and so many others in the Bible wrong? If it was so "wrong", God would have condemned all of those godly men for having more than one wife...but he never did. David was only condemned for taking another man's wife and killing the husband. Otherwise, God says He GIVES wives to men - 2 Samuel 12:8 "I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more!" In the New Testament, Jesus uses a bridegroom and 10 virgins in the Matthew 25 parable. Would Jesus use such a "wrong" analogy in describing Himself?

The Bible clearly tells us it is not against God's law for a man to have more than one wife. God never condemns it and you will not find it listed as something that keeps one from inheriting the Kingdom or gets one cast into the lake of fire. And it is not against man's law for a man to be committed to more than one woman. It is only against the law if my husband asks the state to recognize both marriages.

Pat, you said, "I would not let my husband have the best of both worlds, I have to much respect for myself then that and you should too, don't let him play a games with you." From one wife to another, let me as gently as possible tell you I had the exact same thoughts until I realized that is pride and selfishness speaking out. I had to learn that attitude is not of the LORD, that is my flesh. And as Mike Pearl said in CTBHHM, Jesus did not live his life in ease and for his own pleasure. He lived and suffered for the glory that was to follow. And even if this causes me some suffering, I also see countless blessings and glory to come.

Just as Jesus was persecuted and judged by the religious of His day, those of us who feel called to polgyny are experiencing the same thing in this time period. This helps convince me all the more this is a cross to bear and that the LORD is pleased when we walk this out especially since it is all about loving others and sacrificing for each other just like Jesus did for us.

In summary, please think carefully about what you just advised me before you tell others the same. You told me I might have to let my husband go. So, you have basically advised me to take our 4 children away from an amazing, godly husband and father because he is doing something that our founding forefathers of the faith did. Please do not condemn a god-fearing man who lives a life pleasing to the LORD and is unselfish enough and wise enough with his finances to be able to provide for not one wife, but two.

With all sincerity and love for the LORD,
Heather

I look forward to any thoughts or even others' experiences in trying to write to ministries or others about this hot topic! Thanks!
 
My experience:

"Do not cast your pearls.....before Pearls!" :D

Sorry, couldn't pass it up.

Seriously, a lot of us here on the forums have come to the conclusion that this is not an argument that will be won by logical argument or theological treatise....at least in this day and age. The only way that people are going to be convinced that this is a legitimate option for families is to

1) See it in practice.
2) See the love of God in the hearts of those who do believe.

Those two things alone trump the logic/theology arguments.

Most of us come to this understanding not by being convinced about it in a debate. In fact, that seems to build up resistance (people digging in their heels). The best thing that can be done is to simply show people where YOU stand, and let them search the Scriptures for themselves. If they HONESTLY look through the Word of God, and not throw anything out, you may find a different response!

Blessings,
 
It looks like you've made a very nice effort. I'm sure it will be rebuffed but at least you are letting people know there is a debate out there.

Your first paragraph is wonderful, its brilliant to hit at the heart of the issue of tearing families apart. Paragraph two hits at the very heart of the interpretation issue, and its very well worded. The third paragraph deals with the Timothy objection with one of the common poly counters, its well done. The fourth Paragraph is great, and holds all the greatest arguments they will wave aside without even thinking about because its the Old Testament. Paragraph seven should offend her quite heavily, but its well placed. Very nice wrapup too, I appropriate a well written letter even if they won't. Thanks for making the effort, I think in the long run enough of this will get more people thinking.
 
Thanks both of you for your thoughts. I laughed at the casting pearls before Pearls! :lol: My hubby said I should just plan on writing such a letter for my own sake to have the arguments laid out, but don't expect it to change anything on their end. I understand that and I realize that the LORD doesn't need me to help show other people truth, but I guess I'm naive enough to think perhaps no one has ever challenged them on this before? I agree when it comes to these issues, it's almost a waste of time to try and change people's doctrinal beliefs with logical arguments, but I figure it can't hurt. My real genuine concern is how MANY people go to these people for advice...how scary to have such a responsibility on your shoulders?!?
 
Awesome letter, although I'm sorry you had to deal with something like that.
I imagine your husband is very proud of such a strong, bold, and knowledgeable stance.

I do want to add that those you are writing to are not the enemy. You should probably take some time and pray for God to open their hearts before you send it.
Again, that was very well written.

Thanks for letting us be apart of it.
 
Your response is excellent. You obviously thought it out well. I pray God bless you more abundantly than you ever could think possible! Certainly, the road less traveled can have more rocks in the road, but it is usually filled with better scenary.
 
I am most definitely praying about this letter and the receiver of it. It is truly my heart to want to spare others from being given harmful advice. Other than that, I am not making it my lifelong mission to convince others this way of life is OK to God. Hubby and I have had enough experience with many and their belief systems...and it is basically impossible to get people to admit that some of their long held beliefs could be wrong unless the LORD does the work in a person.

DaPastor - love your comment about the road less traveled and I'd have to agree. As hubby and I say, our life has been far from boring and sometimes we feel bad for all those who live the mundane. ;) I can't wait for our family to meet you and yours!

BTW, I have noticed all my typos. Why is typing "polygyny" so difficult?!? :)
 
Well, I fixed my typos and added a little more to my letter and I got a quick response which I know means she totally did not even take a minute to chew on anything I wrote. Here is what she wrote back:

Dear heather,Thank you for your letter. We really don't have anything else to say, but that biblically we believe polygamy is a sin and that it's against the law. You asked for counsel and we gave you what we believe is right before the Lord. You must do what you think is right for you, but we cannot or will not cross over. We hope everything works out for you. In His Service,Pat

I recently read where someone said those who say such things regarding PM are guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I would hate to take it that far, but does anyone else agree with that?
 
seekHim1 said:
Well, I fixed my typos and added a little more to my letter and I got a quick response which I know means she totally did not even take a minute to chew on anything I wrote. Here is what she wrote back:

Dear heather,Thank you for your letter. We really don't have anything else to say, but that biblically we believe polygamy is a sin and that it's against the law. You asked for counsel and we gave you what we believe is right before the Lord. You must do what you think is right for you, but we cannot or will not cross over. We hope everything works out for you. In His Service,Pat

I recently read where someone said those who say such things regarding PM are guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I would hate to take it that far, but does anyone else agree with that?

Hi seekHim1,

While I agree fully with the stand you took, most ministries are full of their own knowledge and aren't usually open to hearing about polygyny. If you want to help them to change, then make it an issue in a public area of their ministry where you cannot be shut down, or organize a large group of polygamists to challenge them, or, probably best, just continuously provide well-researched polygamy information and demand answers. Here's one of the best arguments: God calls Himself a polygamist several times in Scripture. That ought to throw them for a loop...

As for blaspheming the Holy Spirit, that's a grave charge, which I don't believe can be substantiated by Scripture. To honestly believe that a minor doctrine is incorrect isn't the same as vilifying God. Yes, they are incorrect about polygamy, but many Christians are ignorant of the truth on many doctrines. There are only a few essential ones. Polygamy isn't one of them. No man HAS to marry more than one wife. But we all HAVE to believe that Jesus and the Father are one...


John for Christ
 
seekHim1 said:
Well, I fixed my typos and added a little more to my letter and I got a quick response which I know means she totally did not even take a minute to chew on anything I wrote. Here is what she wrote back:

Dear heather,Thank you for your letter. We really don't have anything else to say, but that biblically we believe polygamy is a sin and that it's against the law. You asked for counsel and we gave you what we believe is right before the Lord. You must do what you think is right for you, but we cannot or will not cross over. We hope everything works out for you. In His Service,Pat

I recently read where someone said those who say such things regarding PM are guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I would hate to take it that far, but does anyone else agree with that?

Hi seekHim1,

Another thing that helps sometimes is to be perfectly honest with people. Tell her that you don't feel she even took a minute to consider things like a Berean, answer some of her objections rationally, and request that she spend a few minutes considering those objections.

You could also enroll the help of a minister that believes in polygamy to go to the group and ask why they have lied to you so, and why their teaching disagrees with Scripture. That might give them pause, as they usually treat ministers differently than people whom they consider to know less than they do. I believe there are quite a few ministers in the polygamy groups. I do know that Pastor Randy is one and Pastor John Whitten is another. Maybe they'd like to help.


John for Christ
 
You must do what you think is right for you, but we cannot or will not cross over.

To me, this means that they are giving her the party line. My guess is that when she didn't immediately capitulate to their counsel, they just wrote her off. My feeling is that it is probably a moot issue and Seekhim1 shouldn't worry about it. She has done what she felt is right. We rarely get someone to believe unless God is already drawing them to the belief. I have experienced this with my sister and hubby and T have experienced it with family members also.

SweetLissa
 
seekHim1,
That was a wonderful letter and an inappropriate response, which is our overwhelming response from any ministry we've written, not even having to do with polygamy doctrine. So no surprise there at all. It shows the amount of errors in attitude and character, which I don't doubt comes from holding to traditions instead of truth. Saying you might have to leave your husband really takes the cake!!! The Lord hates divorce. Even if Moses allowed divorce, he didn't go so far as to advise on it!

I agree with sweetLissa. You challenged them, providing an opportunity for them to rethink their stand. They rejected it. I believe that is all the Lord wants us to do. It's the same in sharing the Gospel. If someone has never heard it it's not the same as if they heard it and rejected it. It's possible to push and shove, but doesn't usually bring results. If one person who responded was even open in the least, then it would be necessary to pursue it for their sake. If the Lord was drawing them there would be some hint or clue.

I also agree that it is certainly not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. However, it is the Holy Spirit who leads us into all Truth... I'm not sure what the end result is for those who dig their heels in on the Way and refuse to walk into it...???

Save your energy for your family the Lord has graciously given you, and keep your pearls away from the Pearls...(love it! - who are they anyway?) and

Don't let anybody "take your crown"!


Beta
 
Hi Beta! I always enjoy reading your posts as I come across them. Nice to finally "talk" to you. :D

Hubby and I agreed before I even sent my response that I would not go any further after that. We have learned our lesson in the past and we know it's not our job to convince people of these things. But in case they hadn't come into contact with this issue, I wanted to at least throw some stuff out there. I agree though, there are better ways to be spending my time. My time with the LORD, hubby, children and now SW should be priority!

If you have not heard of the Pearls or their ministry No Greater Joy, they do have some wonderful resources out there. I do not agree with them on various things, but I have found their book, "To Train up a Child" to be a great help and "Created to Be His Help Meet" is also very challenging for wives. I think they can be a bit harsh and blunt at times, but they still have much Biblical/godly truth to share.

As far as their advice to basically leave my hubby, it is so sad to see such counter-biblical advice given. I was talking to a friend yesterday who now knows about our plural situation and although it is confusing to her, she has enough biblical sense to agree that as a wife, I do not have all these rights such people are telling me I have and that leaving my hubby is hardly Christ-like.

Heather
 
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