Anger / Submission Comparison

[CecilW]

Had a thought that seemed profound to my Pooh Bear small mind, and thought it worth sharing. There's an old saying that goes something like:

To be angry is easy. But to be angry to the right degree, at the right time, for the right reason, in the right manner, and towards the right person -- these are not so easy.

It occurred to me that much the same could be said about submission. To be submissive is easy. Just give up self responsibiliy and become lazy. But to submit to the right party, in the right way, for the right reasons, to the right degree, and on the right occasion? Not so easy.

God tried to make it easy for our ladies -- submit to your own husband as to the Lord. Not to someone else's husband, or the pastor, or anyone else clamoring for your submission. Just ... follow your husband's lead.

For us fellas, it's a bit more complicated. None of us argue that we need to submit when and where and how and why and to whom we are suppose to. The arguments, if any, center solely on what all those qualifiers might be.

Don't want to start another "heated discussioon" here. Just sharing a personal thought for fun. Now, does anyone perchance have another jar of honey for a very hungry bear? :roll:

 

[Corey]

Awesome post CW, The issue should be who, when, and what degree.
As I see it, the scripture gives three authorities with respective spheres of authority. The only authority that is absolute is God. The three authorities have what is called delegated authority. Government Romans 13:1-7, Elders Heb 13:17 and Husbands (I am including fathers in this) 1Cor 11:3, Eph 5:22. Now we are commanded to submit to these authorities in their respective delegation. When one tries to trump the other in the others respective delegation then they are no longer backed by the delegator. Hence, the right to submit to the official delegated authority in that sphere leading to disobedience by default but we are not in sin because we are still submitting to Gods delegated authority within that sphere. Wives are commanded to submit to husbands, Christians are commanded to submit to elders and citizens are commanded to submit to government. If an elder tries to override a husband concerning the home he is out of delegation and the wife is to submit to the proper delegation, hence the husband. If the government tries to override the elders of the church concerning the sphere they have been dispensed then it is out of its delegation and thus we submit to the proper delegation. Also we cannot trump government’s proper sphere either. The real issue is understanding role and function and respective spheres of government, elders and husband. I believe that the real issue is not if we submit or not, but who has been delegated authority in what sphere or aspect of life. This is how I am trying to piece it all together without denying any command of scripture, and I believe I can show this consistent through the whole of God’s word. I write this with humility and having given much prayer to the issue this is the only way so far I can see harmony in scripture concerning submission commands to all three delegates. If someone has a better harmony without denying any of these three commands I am open to it.

Dr. Corey

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

Corey's points there are good and on target in my opinion. The only few thoughts I would add is this. We all already do submit to other authorities in some degree or another. There is no escape of that. So the issue is, as you properly noted, to what degree.

The idea of submission is well understood in areas such as military. Without a proper dose of submission anarchy and chaos occur and very little discipleship and growth or organizational effectiveness can take place. If we can submit in areas for work (when an employee) or when in the military (a soldier) or to state laws (as a citizen) then our hearts because of the filling of the Spirit and the love of Christ in us ought to lead us to being willing to submit to those who are over us in the Lord. The Lord mediates his rule through sub-level authorities. Granted some are more pure than others, but that still does not alter that that he does mediate his rule. One day in the new kingdom to come we too will dispense his rule as we mediate his laws throughout the lands, and in the new heavens and new earth to come.

Also If we have no one over us in the Lord we ought to try and find mature ones who can be a guide and help to us in our journey towards maturity. When looking at Scripture I find that even Apostle Paul, who had direct training by the Lord for a few years, actually sought out a church fellowship to be a part of. To be sure, they almost did not allow him to join because they thought he was still a threat, but the point is that it shows us his heart wanted accountability and he wanted to be in an organized mission for the work of the gospel (Acts 9:26-28).

Additionally, we see Paul actually showing a submissive and respectful spirit to the high Priest, after he erred and spoke disrespectfully. He mistakenly spoke rudely to the High Priest (Acts 23:3). The High Priest was violating the law and Paul knew the violation. But he acted with a quick tongue, unlike how Christ handled a very similar matter (see John 18:23). As Dr. John MacArthur notes of Paul's response to the high Priest after his error (23:5), "Although the High Priest was an evil man, Ananias still held a God-ordained office, and was to be granted the respect that position demanded."

The point is that no matter where we go in life we should, if walking by the Spirit do all we can to honor authority. Even if we absolutely have to disobey we ought to do so with a high dose of respect and honor to the ones in authority. To do anything less is to show a less than honorable attitude and spirit unto whomever is in that position. And all leaders are in such a position because of God's hand of providence in some way or another placing them in that position (Rom. 13:1b). Furthermore, we ought to do our best to find others who are more mature than us and who can aid us in our walk with the Lord. This helps us become more like Christ. God has given to the church leaders to build up his saints (Eph. 4:11-12). Are any perfect? NO! Are there some better than others? Absolutely. Can we ever totally submit in every area to anyone? NO. But our goal should be to submit to those who are more mature than us and to obey Paul's numerous commands where he tells his disciples to follow him as he follows Christ. No matter how much I learn and live I still find many who know more than me, those who can teach me something, and those who can help me live more like Christ if I will take the time to learn from them. And even when I disagree I find that I can still learn something of value in most cases. I think Paul spoke about imitating and following him as he follows Christ about 3 times in his letters. The point can be stated in one word: disciples. I should be discipling someone under me (disciples) while I too am being discipled (being a disciple) by someone (or several people) above me. It boils down to the great commission (Matt. 28:18-20).

Dr. Allen