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Anyone want to put a theopedia article together?

Tlaloc

Member
Theopedias page on polygamy is blank. Anyone want to work with me to put a comprehensive polygamy page together and post it?

I was thinking we'd start by defining it and weeding out polyandry and open marriage, then move onto something along the lines of a history section. Start with numerous Old Testament references, then a section detailing its decline citing asceticism (With references to Tretullian) and cultural integration (with references to Augustine and perhaps some others) as the reasons. Then a few Church council references, reference to R. Gershom's decree, then move on to the Reformation. Cite Luther's tolerance in passing but don't push it, cite Ochino, cite Anabaptist Munster, Cite Madan, then mention Joseph Smith as deviating from the Christian polygamist norm by making it a virtue instead of something that's just allowed. Next we get into the missionary\divorce issue and perhaps then we'd add some contemporary references, but I'd really need help thinking of the best ones of those to site.

Next a criticism section where we'd do our best to properly represent the opposition and counter them concisely, something along the lines of

'Critics of Polygamy cite Christs teachings on divorce against polygamy saying that if someone divorced may not re-marry without committing adultery how then could a man be allowed many wives without it too being considered adultery. Polygamy advocates reply that Christ was teaching specifically about divorce, and if he had meant to oppose polygamy he would have had to do it outright, as his audience allowed it.'

Then probably spend a little more time on the 'polygamy harms women' criticism citing Madans work and Martha Huges Cannon and Carnicoss's 'After Polygamy Became a Sin' as evidence of monogamy being set up in mens favour. Then perhaps finish up dealing with the legal aspect of it or something like that.

I think it might be fun to have a wiki kind of page like that even if it did get eliminated, Biblical Families at large is defiantly moving to consolidate information on Christian polygamy and this might even be considered a kind of supporting effort. On the other hand I've never done a wiki page and probably wouldn't want too unless I had a couple more pairs of eyes and fingers to make sure it was good.
 
I might be willing to help in this.......let's chat and see what might work.
 
I might can help a little. I will be organizing some of the history soon for an upcoming article and a major project. Let me know.
 
Tlaloc said:
Theopedias page on polygamy is blank. Anyone want to work with me to put a comprehensive polygamy page together and post it?

Next a criticism section where we'd do our best to properly represent the opposition and counter them concisely, something along the lines of

'Critics of Polygamy cite Christs teachings on divorce against polygamy saying that if someone divorced may not re-marry without committing adultery how then could a man be allowed many wives without it too being considered adultery. Polygamy advocates reply that Christ was teaching specifically about divorce, and if he had meant to oppose polygamy he would have had to do it outright, as his audience allowed it.'

Tlaloc said:
Theopedias page on polygamy is blank. Anyone want to work with me to put a comprehensive polygamy page together and post it? '

How do you do that?

Tlaloc said:
that if someone divorced may not re-marry without committing adultery

If you look at the original passages discussing remarrying and divorce (In the gospels)

Notice the use of the word "AND" not the use of the word 'OR". it would require both divorcing and marrying another, if someone marries another and does not divorce the "AND" criteria has not been established, for both must occur for an "AND."
 
Thanks everyone,

I was thinking we could do it section by section and compile and post it once we have a cohesive enough page to be useful. If we just say what area we're working on there shouldn't be too much wasted work, and wiki pages are quite modular so compiling the information should be relatively easy. Once someone posts a section then others can comment on it and refine it so we have the best work.

I would also like to mention the Council of Trent and the allowance of polygamy during the 30 years war, I'm just writing that here to remember. What do people think of citing the poets Milton and Dryden? Would that better be done in the history section or its own section (and perhaps including a quote from Absalom and Achitophel)? Perhaps they don't fit at all?

I'm going to start working from the junction between the Testiments to early Christian history today, I'm not sure how far I'll get but yeah.

Its too bad we don't have posts editable by anyone on this forum, that would be the perfect way to build a page like this. For now I guess we will just post our work in this thread and compile it as we go.

@ Discussing,
Its not too hard, I have a Theopedia account so its just a matter of making the page and posting it too their site, I want something good enough that it won't be removed for any little excuse though. If you have time would you like to put together some arguments\counterarguments?
 
I.Forms of Polygamy
Polygamy is a general term that may refer to three things. Polyandry is where a woman may have more than one husband. Open Marriage is where either gender may marry an additional spouse. Polygyny is where a man may have more than one wife. Open Marriage has not been prevalent in any studied culture, and polyandry is extremely rare. In the context of Jewish, Catholic, Islamic, Protestant, or Mormon polygamy polygyny is always strictly meant. In this article when the term polygamy is used it specifically means one man with many women, or polygyny, unless otherwise stated.

II. History of Godly Polygamy and Polygamy\Monogamy contreversies

A. Polygamy among the Patriarchs
#Numbers on Numbers should go here, as it is before Isreal established its territory.

B. Polygamy in Ancient Israel
#Post Pentateuch examples


C. Polygamy and Monogamy in Early Christian and Late Pre-Christian History
Polygamy began to fall into decline among Gods people in the time before Christ due to Rabbinical tradition and Greceo-Roman Custom. The schools of Hillel and Akiba (1) allowed for increasingly permissive divorce that circumvented God's protection on marriage and allowed men to abandon women they where done with instead of carrying through with their obligation to care for them for life. Hillel allowed divorce for any reason, such as 'if she did not dress his victuals well, or if he found another woman he liked better'(1) Akiba went still further saying 'it was sufficient cause for a man to put away his wife if she where not agreeable to her husband' (1). Once men where so easily freed of their marital duties only caring and ethical men would actually commit to the obligations of polygamy, and polygamy in general became less common.

Due to varied interpretations of Christs teaching on divorce and St.Paul's instructions to Timothy concerning selecting elders and deacons for the church polygamy was controversial in the early Church. However, the first designated anti-polygamy work did not arise until the year 211 (2) when Tretullian began his anti-Catholic works which included De Monogamia (3). In this work Tertullian condemns second marriage, both simultaneous polygamy (which is what we mean by polygamy today) and successive polygamy (which Christians in general practice today). He notes in the second chapter that his doctrine of Monogamy is considered a heresy, and the second and third chapter of De Monogamia are spent trying to deflect the charge of novelty which was placed on his doctrine. His argument against the novelty of his doctrine consists of invoking inspiration of the Holy Spirit followed by adding "Nothing of novelty is the Paraclete introducing". The ascetic bent in his work is shown in his view on marriage in general: "Finally, when he (St.Paul) says, "Better it is to marry than to burn," what sort of good must that be understood to be which is better than a penalty? Which cannot seem "better" except when compared to a thing very bad? " and continues to explain that 'better' does not mean 'good' and thus first marridge, while not evil, is not good and merely an indulgence God allows in deference to human weakness. While this argument against marriage in general was not maintained by Christianity at large, it still exists as a form of argument against simultaneous polygamy.

The survival of these ascetic views of marriage is evident in the work of St. Augustine of Hippo (358-395 A.D.) who published a two book work entitled On Marriage and Concupiscence (4). His fourteenth chapter was titled "Before Christ It Was a Time for Marrying; Since Christ It Has Been a Time for Continence" though he does allow in Chapter 16 that if married people should come together in the nuptial embrace for reasons other than procreation it is forgivable, though contains some amount of sin. To that end he acknowledges that a plurality of wives was permitted to the Holy Fathers such as Abraham by God, but he maintains their motive was for multiplication of offspring, not desire for gratification. Concerning polygamy in general he said 'When it was a Custom, it was no crime'(5)

The Council of Toledo in 400 (10) was the first Christian council to indirectly ban polygamy in that it prohibited married Christians from keeping a concubine on pain of excommunication. Unmarried Christians could still have a concubine and not be refused communion. The first direct prohibition against Polygamy is found in the Code of Justinian in the sixth century (8*).

D. Polygamy in Midevil History
Over time monogamy became so ingrained in Christian culture and theology that it became grounds for antisemitism. Around 1000 A.D this caused a decree (6) that European Jews should have only one wife until the Jewish Year 5000, or 1240 A.D. so that they may ease the tensions with Christian neighbors. While this decree was only for European Jews for a set amount of time, it was latter extended to the majority of the Jewish population and was not repealed.

The case for polygamy among Christians was not re-opened until the Protestant Reformation brought with it an emphasis on fidelity to scripture over fidelity to tradition.

E. Polygamy and the Reformation

Martian Luther re-opened the debate by encouraging Landgrave Philip De Hesse (1504-1567) to take a second wife. Philip had been given in political marriage to the daughter of Duke George at the age of nineteen, and lacking romance in his marriage he found a lover outside of his marriage. After his conversion his conscience grieved him and he would not come before the Lords Table. He consulted Luther on his problem. Luther took Christs teachings on divorce in Matthew very seriously and would not allow him a divorce to marry the woman he loved. But Luther did feel that there should be some remedy, and he discovered it by a reversion to the mores of the Old Testament patriarchs, who had practiced bigamy and even polygamy without any manifestation of divine displeasure. Luther counciled Philip that he may take a second wife without divine displeasure, though he also advised that he should keep it a secret because it was against the law of the land. The new bride's mother declined to keep the secret and ultimately Luther worked to disassociate himself from this advice because of its severe political ramifications. (7)

In Feburary of 1534 Anabaptist forces took control of the German city of Munster. Discontent among the peasant and plebeian classes against the nobles and clergy lead to a violent revolt, and when the Anabaptist's secured the city they established a socialist economy.(*) On July 23rd the leadership proclaimed Polygamy the ideal form of marridge. One of the Anabaptist preachers said "the wives were such good friends with their husbands that they went out and got wives for them like Sarah for Abraham or Jacob." and a later Catholic historian noted "the theoretical inferiority of women (due to polygamy) in the town ran parallel to a status which in practice was in many ways uniquely high at that time."(8) The very next year the Munsterite Anabaptists where crushed in seige and most of its people where killed. The Later Mennonite Anabaptists did not carry on the practice of polygamy.

The Italian reformer Bernardino Ochino was the next to raise the subject. Ochino was a Capuchin Monk and a talented orator who quickly gained fame due to his skill and style. His conversion to the Protestant cause was a gradual one, the transition took place between 1539 and 1541 when he was over 50 years old. In 1542 he fled to Geneva, where he was cordially received by Calvin. Though Calvin was said to mistrust Italians after careful inquiry Calvin was impressed by Ochino's "eminent learning and exemplary life". For two decades he published and preached for the Reformation throughout Europe. In 1563 he published his 'thirty dialogues' in which he would place himself in an argument with an imaginary objector to a given Christian or Protestant doctrine. While several where very controversial, the most objectionable of these was his twenty first dialogue, the Dialogue on Polygamy (9). In Ochino declares Monogamy the only form of marriage and defends it with the whole repudiator contemporary arguments for monogamy while his imaginary opponent draws from the Old Testament, counters arguments form the New Testament, and draws extensively from practical considerations leaving Ochino in the end merely restating his support for Monogamy in an empty way. A similar work to this appeared in 1541 under the fictitious name "Huldericus Neobulus" in defense of Philip de Hesse, it seems that Ochino borrowed many of its arguments from this anonymous work. Despite Ochinos unblemished moral character he was banished from one protestant city after another after the publication of these works. In his last days he fell out of public grace, and died in exile in 1564, his last known words where “I wish to be neither a Bullingerite, nor a Calvinist, nor a Papist, but simply a Christian.”

The nineteenth ecumenical council opened in Trent opened on December 13th, 1545 and closed December 4th, 1563 (10) In the third period of this council a decree for the Sacrament of Matrimony was drafted containing twelve cannons. It Anathematized polygamy directly.

F. Polygamy Post Reformation

On February 14th, 1650 the Parliament at Nuremberg decreed that because of massive depopulation during the 30 years war every man was allowed to marry up to ten women (12*). This applied to both Protestants and Catholics. This was a short term one-generation provision, but it shows an underlying general acceptance of polygamy when circumstances promote it, and that when things really come down to it, polygamy is part of God's natural law that supersedes theological speculation (Is that way too preachy?)

Throughout his works the poet John Milton defends Polygamy, both past and present. In his History of Briton (13) he calls polygyny a ‘liberty, not unnatural, to have many wives’ in contrast to the alleged polyandry of ancient Brittons of which he says ‘as much more absurd and preposterous in their license’. In De Doctrina Christiana (14) he defends polygamy vigorously on the basis that calling it fornication or adultery would be an affront the the Holy Patriarchs and would cause the Holy Line to crumble. He notes that Deuteronomy 23v2 prevents a bastard from entering the congregation of the Lord, and so says ‘either polygamy is a true marriage, or all the children born in that state are spurious, which would include the whole race of Jacob’ and ‘as such an assertion would be absurd in the extreme, not to say impious, it appears to me that, so far from the lawfulness of polygamy being trivial, it is of the highest importance that it should be decided’.

(A good section needs to be made on Madan to close the history section, Post Mormon stuff should probably get its own section. )

III. Criticism of the practice of polygamy

IV. Polygamy in the Mission feild

V. Contemporary Christian Polygamy







(*) This only means I would like a better reference for this point or I have no good reference yet.

(1) ant. univ. hist. vol. X p429, p469

(2)Catholic Encyclopedia, Tertullian, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm

(3) Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4.

(4) Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series, Vol. 5. Edited by Philip Schaff.

(5) St. Augustine, lib.XXII. C47 against Faustus

(6) R. Gershom b. Judah, "the Light of the Exile"

(7) Here I Stand: A Life of Martin Luther, Roland Bainton

(8) After Polygamy Was Made a Sin, John Cairncross

(9) History of the Christian Church, Philip Schaff Vol 8. Section 129

(10) http://www.adialogonpolygamy.com/

(11) The Catholic Encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04423f.htm

(12) A Genealogical Handbook of German Research http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... search.pdf (This book is so not on topic, it has the information I need and is accurate, but there must be a better reference somewhere)

(13) History of Briton, John Milton, 1670

(14) De Doctrina Christiana, John Milton
 
Well, kind of. Thats actually a link to another copy of both references 3 and 4. Those two works are pretty common noways, its good to have those kinds of things so readily available.
 
I am personally overwhelmed with the depth of your vision. That being said bravo, and I support you 100%.

I suggest two things:
1) Divide and conquer
create an outline and allow authors to commit to small parts, ideally between a paragraph to a page.

2) Take the document over to Google Documents
Then you can invite contributors to review and edit the same documents.

If you have something for me, I would be honored to help.

God Bless,

Robert

I could write "Doing the math in Numbers" (indications and prevalence of polygyny among the Israelite nation)
 
Tlaloc,

I'll look at your other post shortly.....covered up today on a major project due by Monday morning! :shock:

As for the outline suggestion by someone, I think this would be the way to go.

If you have the time how about composing a brief outline that you might like to use for the aticle. For example:

I. Family Types
A.
B.
C

II Historical Section
A.
B.
C
1.
2.

III. Overview from the Main Eras of Biblical History

IV. Church History

V. Modern Day Analysis

etc etc.

These are just suggestions....but however you do it an outline would be very helpful. You may even want to look at some other outlines and see how they have been composed on the family in some other cyclopedia articles in the web.

We'll jump in and help along the way with various sections in the outline.

Thanks so much brother for your discovering this opportunity. You are a blessing and this will be a blessing to thousands of others!

Chat with ya later today. As soon as I take another break I'll review your longer post. Dr. Raegean might get to it before and if so great. He has done some extensive study on this matter in history so he might have a good eye for this. Then of course it may be something new to all of us....always something new coming up as this doctrine brings to light so much information.

Allen
 
An outline is a very good idea, I'll put one together now, though it should be considered rough and subject to change. If anyone wants to do a section just say where your working on so we don't get redundancies.

I. Definition of Polygamy
-a short paragraph explaining that polygamy means polyandy, polygyny, or open marridge, and explaining that in a Christian context we are only talking about polygyny.

II. History

A. Polygamy and the Patriarchs (OT)
B. Polygamy in O.T. Israel (Neo, since you have the list would you work on A or B if you have time)
C. Polygamy in early Christian History (Starting with Hillel and Akiba just before Christ too St. Augustine I think. Many other fathers commented on polygamy in passing, I summed them up in 'it was controversial' for now)
D. Polygamy in the Midevil Church (Noting when Monogamy became the rule of Christian order if I or someone manages to find the council decision I'm looking for, any noting any civil monogamy laws we can find [I will probably stumble upon a couple of those as I go back though my books, but I can't remember offhand]. Then go into R. Gershom's decree and the closing line)
E. Polygamy in the Reformation (Luther, Ochino, some Anabaptists, Anabaptist Munster or 'New Jeruselem' (should note Carnicoss's work in that women where happy with polygamy in that case) Any other reformers ect? this section should probably close with the council of Trent)
F. Post-reformation Polygamy (The temporary allowance in the 30 years war, Milton and Dryden possibly?, Martian Madan, Possibly Joseph Smith and Mormon polygamy [Either dealt with in detail here or explained in passing and reserved for another section, when mentioning him it should note that while all the other pro poly references merely allowed polygamy, only Mormons see it as a special virtue)

(I do like how Allen made a separate section for biblical history. If people like that better than including scriptural cases in the general history then lets place it before the general history (and naturally move all the General history lettering marks back 2).

III. Criticisms of Polygamy
I don't have a list here, but lets put a criticism per bullet point. Lets have scriptural objections first and strictly practical ones after.

IV. The Missionary Issue
If we have enough information this should have a section of its own.

V. Contemporary Christian Polygamy
I'm not entirely sure how to do this.



On a negitive note, I've agreed to go on a no TV\Internet discipline for some time starting Wednesday so I probably won't see it through to the end. If that turns people off the project I understand and it can be picked up later, but I will try to get as much done as I can in the next two days. If anyone finishes this and posts it in my absence I would be very happy.
 
Tlaloc said:
III. Criticisms of Polygamy
I don't have a list here, but lets put a criticism per bullet point. Lets have scriptural objections first and strictly practical ones after.

Hugh McBryde has an excellent document that will probably fit your need for scriptural objections. It is currently formatted as a challenge for forum postings but perhaps we could get him to edit it (or with his permission I could) to fit this application.

I will ask him about it. I am waiting to hear from him on the phone.
 
It would be great to have Hugh on board with this project in any capacity. I would like to get a chance to get more pro poly Christians to review this before we put it 'out there' but I've never used Google Documents before. It looks perfect for this job, but everyone would need a Google account. What does everyone think of using it?


*I'm going to start work on E. for now, I'm just editing the old post. I spent so much time on Ochino because Theopedia is a Calvinist site, and Ochino knew and worked directly with Calvin.
 
As for some common objections and biblical answers this post in the teaching articles section could be of some use:

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1866
 
Yes, that is useful. I was actually wondering if we could cite that page, given it is a scholarly work. I would like to linkback to Biblical Families at some point in this article.

For information sake their statement of faith is

http://www.theopedia.com/Theopedia:Statement_of_faith

Which is no problem (barring the few here that are strictly anti-Trinitarian)

They also prefer a Calvinistic point of view concerning grace, which doesn't really matter concerning this article, but is good to keep in mind.

"Content that runs contrary to the statement of faith and traditional, evangelical Protestantism may be respectfully and reasonably criticized. "

While we have no problem with the statement of faith, one way or another we're going to run into problems with tradition. We not out of line to post our material though, but we should (as always) expect criticism.
 
You know, putting this together like this made me see something more clearly, we have friends of Luther (the early Anabaptist's) Friends of Calvin (Ochino) and friends of the Weaslies (Madan) supporting polygamy... These are quite a few of the big names in reformation theology, polygamy has always been in the shadows of the reformation and pushed back for reasons of politics.

@ Neo,

Yeah, a numbers on numbers section would be very good,

Also, if anyone has a copy of Ochinos Dialogue we can use his work in objections, he dealt with most of them. I gave my last copy away over a year ago to further interest in polygamy.

Until we agree on a medium for this (like Google docs) just copy the part you want to edit and re-post the whole section. Once we get enough for a solid article it can be put on Theopedia with a few sections yet to be worked on.
 
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