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Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do?

Doc

Member
Real Person
I would like to ask the single ladies (or former single ladies) two questions:

Why are women attracted to 'bad boy' characters, when they KNOW that nothing good could come from the relationship?

Why do women tend to classify nice guys as 'friends', rather than as potential dating material?

Exploring the deep mysteries of the universe,

Doc
 
Can I ask a third, or should it be a separate thread?

** How do you be a bad boy while being a good man? Ya know, so women will wanna date you AND have expectations of a good future?
 
Cindy was smitten with her new boyfriend, Evan. They met at church, and he possessed many of the qualities that she had dreamed of in a man—except for his reputation of being the “life of the party.” Evan liked to visit a local sports bar and relax with his old college buddies. Cindy didn’t mind him hanging out with his friends. However, Evan occasionally went overboard and wound up intoxicated.

Whenever Cindy brought up the subject of his drinking, Evan agreed with her concerns, promised to quit, and told her not to worry about it. Yet, instead of distancing herself from Evan, Cindy dove deeper into their relationship, hoping that her affection might give him the incentive to change. She envisioned that she could help Evan mature into a better man. As they dated, she prayed for his improvement, gave him motivational tapes, and urged him to think of God and their future when faced with the temptation to drink.

Evan appreciated Cindy’s support, and after ten months of dating, he asked her to marry him. He still had occasional setbacks with alcohol, but they were less frequent than before. Cindy joyfully concluded that her influence was effective and her love would change him forever.

Soon after their engagement, however, Evan’s real estate business began to falter. Under stress, he started to work longer hours, and stopped by the sports bar on his way home. He swore to Cindy that he was just talking with his friends. Until one night, she received a call from the police. Evan was arrested for drunk driving. Cindy was devastated by his relapse. She thought Evan would change for her. Instead, his unresolved habits resurfaced and shattered her heart.

Cindy’s story represents a common occurrence among Christian single women of all ages. The problem happens when sincere Christian women ignore the nice Christian guys and pursue relationships with men known as “bad boys.” Worse, some ladies find themselves unable to break free from an attraction to men of ill repute. Since this situation is more widespread than many realize, let’s examine why this phenomenon occurs. First, how do you define a “bad boy.”

A bad boy is a man who seems outwardly attractive, but is unwilling to offer sacrificial love in a relationship. He is too immature and preoccupied with himself to share genuine compassion, concern, or acceptance. A bad boy lacks character and might exhibit the following behavior: lying, aloofness, irresponsible dreaming, fear of commitment, sexual promiscuity, addiction to substances or pornography, selfishness, hunger for power, disinterest in surrendering to God, etc.

In addition, a bad boy is not interested in true love, because real love requires consistent sacrifice. A bad boy will only sacrifice for someone if it’s convenient for him or if he gets something in return. He expects the woman to do most of the giving, while he ignores her needs or takes advantage of her. Yet, why do some Christian women find themselves attracted to bad boys?

Three key beliefs can contribute to this problem:

Reason #1 – He can be fixed.

Just like Cindy believed that she could change Evan, some women allow their “nurturing instinct” to affect whom they choose to date. In other words, a nice girl may view a bad boy as a “project” or someone whom she can help “fix.” This incident occurs when a woman acknowledges that her boyfriend has character flaws, yet believes she can help him mature or overcome his problems. Helping a man to “grow up” can play into a woman’s sense of significance.

Also, if a woman was abused or ignored by her father, she may not know how to identify character or real love. Worse, she may subconsciously think that her past pain can be erased by marrying a bad boy and making everything work out right.

The fallacy of this belief is that it’s impossible to make a man improve his character. He may fake integrity over the short-term, but a man will only mature when he makes the decision himself. All too often, a woman reasons that a bad boy’s character flaws will not harm her. She believes that she is insulated from the consequences of his dishonesty, addictions, or immaturity. Sadly, the girlfriend is usually the person who winds up suffering the most hurt. She hangs onto the relationship thinking her sacrifice will encourage him to improve. Months later, his abusive behavior destroys her self-esteem and drains the life out of her.

Reason #2 – He pursued me.

Bad boys tend to be more assertive than nice guys when it comes to initiating a dating relationship. Since most women want a man to pursue them, this aggressive approach can feel appealing. In addition, a bad boy may seem driven to make something out of himself. Women usually prefer a man who seems to have purpose in life. For example, some single Christian women complain that “Christian men are too passive or non-adventurous.” In other words, “nice guys” wait too long to initiate relationships or don’t seem to be going anywhere in life.

This criticism is a valid issue that Christian men should consider. For instance, do you know men who are too scared of rejection to ask a woman for a date? Are they too nervous to follow their dreams or the desires that God has placed in their heart? In his book, Wild at Heart, John Eldridge says, “When all is said and done, I think most men in the church believe that God put them on earth to be a good boy…That’s what we hold up as models of Christian maturity: Really Nice Guys. The answer is simply this: We have not invited a man to live from his deep heart.” One lesson that nice guys can learn from bad boys is to follow those inner desires that make them come alive.

Good girls date bad boys, however, when they lower their standards and accept any assertive invitation that they receive. Remember, you cannot spin gold from a pile of straw. Dating a guy with poor character, even if he pursues you, will still equal a poor relationship.

Ladies, this does not mean that you should date a man who is boring. On the contrary, date a guy who captivates you. However, take the time to discern that man’s character before you give him your heart.

Reason #3 – He’s so exciting.

Our society glamorizes the bad boy attitude–just look at who we consider the most popular singers and actors (Eminem, P. Diddy, Ashton Kutcher, Jack Nicholson, etc.). Bad boys draw attention to themselves, and their popularity or playful personality can be very attractive. The notoriety of dating a bad boy can touch a woman’s need for acceptance and significance. What some women don’t realize, however, is that their personal reputation can be tarnished by associating with a notorious person. If people don’t respect your boyfriend, they will have a hard time respecting you.

Bad boys may be fun, but the party never lasts. Vain pleasure always wears off over time. Thus, good girls beware. A bad boy may shower you with compliments, attention, and excitement, but the moment you cease to keep him happy–he will lose interest in you. Soon, he’s off looking for another woman to indulge his selfish heart.

Breaking the bad boy cycle

How can a “good girl” avoid dating a bad boy? The key lies in understanding your identity in Jesus Christ. Don’t define yourself by whether or not you have a boyfriend, because Jesus is the only Person who offers the unconditional acceptance that your heart craves. Your true identity is a beautiful, celebrated, daughter of God (Isaiah 62:3-4).

On the other hand, the affection of a bad boy is always performance-based. Jesus, however, sacrificed His life to love you without expecting anything in return. Your desire to feel cherished and complete can only be met by Christ (Colossians 2:10). If you do not learn to get your need for love met in Him, then your heart can be vulnerable to a bad boy’s charisma.

In addition, human relationships only experience intimacy when both parties sacrifice for each other. By definition, a bad boy is unwilling to offer you sacrificial love. So don’t fool yourself into thinking that you are immune to his lack of integrity. You must be willing to walk away from a man who is unwilling to sacrifice for your needs.

Also, don’t attempt to fix a bad boy’s character flaws. Only Jesus Christ can change a man, and it generally takes years to see real improvement. Change is possible, but a man must be willing to surrender himself to God and take action. First John 4:19 says, “We love, because He first loved us.” This verse reveals that a man’s ability to love a woman is only found in the life that Jesus offers to live through him. A real man knows that he can do nothing apart from Christ (John 15:5). Therefore, ladies, reserve your heart for a guy who will rely upon Christ to love you.

Bad boys may be more common than men with character, but waiting for a man with integrity is worth it. So kiss the bad boys goodbye, and say hello to true love in Christ!
 
No woman ever wakes up in the morning and says to herself, “Today I am going to fall for a bad boy who will hurt me.”

Most often the men these women meet know how to make them feel wonderful.

Bad Boys are Usually good at Manipulating Women

The problem isn’t that the feelings of these women are wrong. The problem is that many of these guys are often very likable, charming, exciting and fun to be around, at first. These guys are usually good looking, sexy and masculine. They are good at forming a quick, emotional bond with these unsuspecting women. They are masters of manipulation. And they are used to getting what they want.

Though the common themes of why women like bad boys seems to be because they are, mysterious, indifferent, unpredictable, and exciting.

In a survey asking women exactly why they date losers, the top 10 reasons were as follows:

Their bad boy attitude.
They don’t care what others think of them.
They tend to live adventurous exciting lifestyle. Safe or not.
Her friends or family don’t approve of them.
Their mysterious attitude is intriguing.
The emotional roller coaster the bad boy gives them is addicting.
She wants to change or tame him.
They seem to offer the greatest protection.
They don’t seem to like the woman, and she wants the attention or his love. (A challenge)
It’s a father figure issue.

What gets these women into trouble is that their feelings often cause them to ignore bad or inconsistent behavior that they would clearly see if they were not so emotionally involved.

Despite the tears and sleepless nights these men cause, they are never boring, routine or predictable. They provide plenty to talk about with friends over a Coke. But mostly they inflict misery. Jealousy. Paranoia. Sadness. Depression.

Many women spend months daydreaming of offering a sparkling insight, of putting on a sexy dress, or of telling a hilarious joke, to show their bad boy lover how incredible they are. Fantasize of changing them. Of how they would stop cheating, drinking or beating them, transforming into Prince Charming.

Many Women Dream of Rescuing Their Bad Boys

Women like this see their bad boys as a project, a work in progress, or even a life worth saving. After years of failed attempts, it finally dawns on many of these women to stop dating these types of guys. But by then, a lot of emotional and psychological damage has already been done.

This "Florence Nightingale Syndrome" involves women who try helping guys who refused to help themselves.

Thank God there is hope. Contrary to popular belief, women want the Nice Guy. I know you are probably cringing right now because everything you have felt and experienced so far suggests the opposite.


Most women who constantly dated bad boys end up being attracted to and even marrying the same boring, nice guys they used to turn their nose up at. The loyal, affectionate, reliable, successful, fun ones that do their share in a relationship.

They want to stop being miserable, nervous, jealous, and paranoid.



How to Stop Dating Bad Boy Losers and Lost Causes

If you're continually attracting bad men, you have a problem. Bad men are attracted to women they perceive they can abuse, emotionally or physically. Are you up for abuse?

If so, why?

Sit down, pour a cup of tea, and have a good chat with yourself. Why do you attract losers? Why do you find them attractive? If you find good men boring or 'too safe,' what does that say about you? Are you afraid of a real relationship?

Why?

Love advice: Write your answers on a piece of paper. Give them some thought. Ask yourself what kind of man would give you the peace and joy you truly deserve. Write that down, too. Use your second list as a litmus test. The next time you date a guy, ask yourself if he possesses the qualities you need to be happy.

Ask yourself if you're willing to be happy (not everybody is, you know). If your answer is yes, that's great. If you answer is no, ask yourself why.

What are you afraid of? What's stopping you? Are you willing to change?
 
DocInMO said:
I would like to ask the single ladies (or former single ladies) two questions:

Why are women attracted to 'bad boy' characters, when they KNOW that nothing good could come from the relationship?

I'm not and I don't.

Why do women tend to classify nice guys as 'friends', rather than as potential dating material?

I really don't get it because I am not really interested in fake machismo but hazarding a guess I would say it is because they often 'act' like friends. Women, often like to know that a man really desires them, that they will be protected or defended, if a man gives the impression that he hasn't got that fire in him....well you don't feel as protected??

Just from one XX pov.

Bels
 
Any time I've been attracted to someone who might classify as a bad boy, I think it was ultimately because I admired their confidence. A confident man of God, though? Now that's somethin' ;)

I think I classify all nice men I know as friends rather than as potential dating material because it just gets tiring and depressing if I do it the other way around. If I end up in a relationship with one of those friends, then awesome. That door is always open.
 
CecilW said:
** How do you be a bad boy while being a good man? Ya know, so women will wanna date you AND have expectations of a good future?

Cecil, I'm not sure if this is going to really answer the question or not....because I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around this whole post entirely. But one thing that did come to mind...

Nice guys should be careful of being lukewarm. That should be said of any man or woman of God, really, because it says that right in His Word. But I think a big thing I connect in my mind to 'nice guys' is that they lack a bit of passion (not always true). A picture that's painted in my mind (again, while not always true) is that the nice guy is sitting on the sideline unsure if he should go in for the play or not, then misses his chance altogether. While the bad boy just jumps into it and takes his best shot. I dated a 'nice guy' who I don't think felt passion about much of anything. It's a drag. I don't feel comfortable speaking for all women, but for myself, I like knowing a man has a bit of a fire in his belly, like Bels was saying. I guess the important difference between the nice guy and the bad boy is going to be where their passion lies. (And yes, we all like our men to be passionate about their women)
 
One way a lady can be helped in this is to have a spiritual father or multiple spiritual leaders overseeing her, someone who can be that guide when emotions run so strong that it clouds solid judgment.
 
Andria said:
CecilW said:
** How do you be a bad boy while being a good man? Ya know, so women will wanna date you AND have expectations of a good future?

But I think a big thing I connect in my mind to 'nice guys' is that they lack a bit of passion (not always true). A picture that's painted in my mind (again, while not always true) is that the nice guy is sitting on the sideline unsure if he should go in for the play or not, then misses his chance altogether. While the bad boy just jumps into it and takes his best shot. I dated a 'nice guy' who I don't think felt passion about much of anything. It's a drag.

You know, my daughter said the same thing. We asked her why she was attracted to the type of guys she was and and she said 'because they're not boring'. I think perhaps what she was really attracted to was confidence. People love to follow someone with confidence in themselves. People love to follow someone whom they perceive as a 'winner'. Doesn't always turn out good. People followed Jim Jones all the way to the grave. People followed Charles Manson all the way to prison.

I have one friend who said she divorced her fist husband because she was afraid she'd die of boredom. She told me she used to put a mirror under his nose to see if he was still breathing.

Maybe its just hard-wired for a woman to prefer a man that's confident, tall and handsome because they have the best chance of becoming a successful provider (been well documented). If a person isn't those things they'd probably be best served to get themselves to college and be able to bring some big brains and skills to the table instead of wallowing in the 'woe is me' pit. (just my 2 cents worth)

Makes me remember something I read about Larry Bird's dad. He said he knew his son wasnt the best looking so he made sure Larry consentrated on developing the one thing he was very good at, and they spent endless hours working on his skill together until he got it right.
 
I don't want what I said to be taken the wrong way. When thinking about me and my own life, to outsiders looking in it probably looks fairly boring. I'm a bit of a home-body..I don't go out to bars and parties like most 23 year olds. A lot of people would want to do more than I do just by myself (not that I'm unwilling but it's not as fun by yourself :P) But I have passion. I don't need a 'life of the party'. I need someone with heart and emotion about the things they care about.
 
Andria I hope you don't think I'm taking you the wrong way, I wasn't thinking directly about what you said about boring at all. I was just reflecting on the numerous times I've read stuff on what makes one person successful and another person not. I do agree that it's probably the way people perceive someone as either self-confidend or not. I read recently that tall people have the given advantage over shorter folks; Thin people have a big advantage in the job market over heavier people. Miss America gets a college schollarship and a year of world travel and life-long fame just for looking good in a swimsuit. That's just the way it is. Just look at Donald Trump. Handsome, not. Rich and powerful, definately. Had 3 wives and counting-for sure; Morally bandrupt-I vote yes. Could probably get 10 women to go home with him any night of the week-don't doubt it one bit. Why? They'd perceive him as a confident, powerful, successful man. Anyone would need a lot of brains and money and spunk to compete with that, but it happens.
 
Being 6' 7" and built like a linebaker, I have to say that tall people do have a definite advantage in social situations due to either the novelty of my size or the intimidation factor that I am constantly forced to disarm. This transfers into the business arena and others as well.

While I may not know everyone around me, everyone knows me because I stick out like a sore thumb in the sea of endless faces. If I have never personally met a person, but have seen them around, they tend to automatically have a sense of who I am just because they have been forced to notice me when I was around before. I takes a step or two out of the "comfort bonding" process and gives me the social edge, so to speak.

As I mentioned before, I constantly have to disarm the intimidation that others feel around such an imposing figure, so having an engaging personality really becomes a part of one's nature when you are forced to do so daily.

The other general benefit is that, as I grew up, I realized that people treated me differently than everyone else. For good or ill, that forced me to learn how to think outside the usual norms. This also carried into several other areas of my thinking. A sort of exceptionalism via osmosis.

The reverse is also true....Being so very noticable is like living in a glass house. Everyone or noone could be watching at any moment, so it is advisable to keep yourself in check or you can easily become the topic of every rumor in town. Humility is a good thing. :lol:
 
CecilW said:
Can I ask a third, or should it be a separate thread?

** How do you be a bad boy while being a good man? Ya know, so women will wanna date you AND have expectations of a good future?

You mean many women are looking for a bad man who is not a bad man

Doublethink is the ability to believe two contradictory things at the same time. Many woman in Western Cultures love to engage in doublethink that answers it completely. But.... it does not answer how to find a woman who does not commit doublethink or how to teach a woman how to not doublethink which is the real question of value.
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
CecilW said:
Can I ask a third, or should it be a separate thread?

** How do you be a bad boy while being a good man? Ya know, so women will wanna date you AND have expectations of a good future?

You mean many women are looking for a bad man who is not a bad man



No I think it's more like women are attracted to certain qualities that can be acted out as 'bad boy' behavior that could be called 'confident' behavior or agressive (in a good way) behavior. Perhapes they're wanting a 'bad boy' who will mature into a good man. Some women are so immature themselves they don't even understand what they want anyway. No everyone is marriage material and woe to the person why settles with them. Guess I think it's better to be 'picky' when it comes to a spouse.

As far as 'doublethink', men tend to want confident sexy girls who will turn into devoted wives and mothers. Women aren't the only ones who engage in 'double mindedness'!
 
Doc mentioned John Eldredge's "Wild At Heart" earlier in the thread. I feel that it is an excellent book which may have some insights as to why this double thinking process occurs. I don't have the book in front of me right now, but I will try to paraphrase to the best of my ability.

God created men with the qualities needed to both provide and protect. He gave us the instincts which drive us to be willing to do battle with the elements and enemies alike. He fills our hearts with passion and fire! It is up to us to decide how to use these gifts. Too long, the "good Christian man" has been viewed as a docile, boring wimp.

Trying to fit into that mold when we are actually created to be entirely different has caused so many good men to lead a life of quiet desperation and turned others away from the Gospel because they see the image of a "good Christian man" and know that they could never fit into the role.

If we release that fire and passion upon the world in a controlled, disciplined and purposeful manner, we can change the world. Look at all the great leaders in history. Every single one of them had an immense passion that was firmly under their control. This is what the "Bad boy" has, but without the control and discipline.

Uncontrolled fire can do immeasurable damage to anything it is near. Fire under tight control can kill, shape glass, weld iron, forge steel and heal with only the smallest trace of a wound. Against a raging fire under the tightest control, even the hardest substances known can be shaped or broken.

It is that strength and fire which the "Bad Boy" displays so freely that enables them to draw a woman and others in. It's just the fact that everyone can see his flame. It is the tempered and disciplined man, who has that same fire and strength under his strict control, who ends up being more effective in his life and the lives of those around him.
 
donnag said:
DiscussingTheTopic said:
CecilW said:
Can I ask a third, or should it be a separate thread?

** How do you be a bad boy while being a good man? Ya know, so women will wanna date you AND have expectations of a good future?

You mean many women are looking for a bad man who is not a bad man



No I think it's more like women are attracted to certain qualities that can be acted out as 'bad boy' behavior that could be called 'confident' behavior or agressive (in a good way) behavior. Perhapes they're wanting a 'bad boy' who will mature into a good man. Some women are so immature themselves they don't even understand what they want anyway. No everyone is marriage material and woe to the person why settles with them. Guess I think it's better to be 'picky' when it comes to a spouse.

As far as 'doublethink', men tend to want confident sexy girls who will turn into devoted wives and mothers. Women aren't the only ones who engage in 'double mindedness'!

If by ___y you mean those who dress like _____s, and are really flirtatious, I do not want that kinda girl, I am just looking for good wife/mother material. Some men talk to flirtatious girls not because they like their flirtatiousness, but because at least the girl talked to them at all and therefor might be interested in marriage.

I think that might be why arranged marriages can sometimes be much better for a woman than double-minded dating, but some arranged marriages can turn out very bad especially if the Father is not arranging the daughter for the daughter sake but for other reasons, such as cultural/religious pride (Muslims/Anti-Christ Jews), money (Chinese opium....) or family allegiances (India/European royalty) taking a higher priority than the daughters sake. Although making sure the husband is financially stable is different than just marrying her for money only instead of money+love.
 
I appreciate everyone's input.
I definately think that "bad boys/pigs" have an art of manipulation with assertiveness and trying to make the woman "feel" special without much sacrifice on his part.
I like the idea of making a well thought-out list of what we as women would like in a man. I think top on the list should be him leading you in reading the Bible together, praying together, talking about scripture, and talking about his goals and what he feels God's purpose or mission is for him while on earth. BUT ALL THIS WITHOUT SACRIFICAL LOVE IS NOTHING! I agree that he needs to be sacrificing his time and money for you. If he is not then something is wrong and you better turn around and run in the opposite direction of him as fast as you can.
I would like to say that I especially like the following comments:

Bad Boys are Usually good at Manipulating Women. They are good at forming a quick, emotional bond with these unsuspecting women. They are masters of manipulation. And they are used to getting what they want.
A picture that's painted in my mind (again, while not always true) is that the nice guy is sitting on the sideline unsure if he should go in for the play or not, then misses his chance altogether. While the bad boy just jumps into it and takes his best shot.
I think perhaps what she was really attracted to was confidence. People love to follow someone with confidence in themselves. People love to follow someone whom they perceive as a 'winner'.
Bad boys tend to be more assertive than nice guys when it comes to initiating a dating relationship. Since most women want a man to pursue them, this aggressive approach can feel appealing. In addition, a bad boy may seem driven to make something out of himself. Women usually prefer a man who seems to have purpose in life.
What gets these women into trouble is that their feelings often cause them to ignore bad or inconsistent behavior that they would clearly see if they were not so emotionally involved.
However, take the time to discern that man’s character before you give him your heart.
Remember, you cannot spin gold from a pile of straw. Dating a guy with poor character, even if he pursues you, will still equal a poor relationship.
A bad boy may shower you with compliments, attention, and excitement, but the moment you cease to keep him happy–he will lose interest in you. Soon, he’s off looking for another woman to indulge his selfish heart.
Your true identity is a beautiful, celebrated, daughter of God (Isaiah 62:3-4).
You must be willing to walk away from a man who is unwilling to sacrifice for your needs.
Also, don’t attempt to fix a bad boy’s character flaws. Only Jesus Christ can change a man, and it generally takes years to see real improvement.Change is possible, but a man must be willing to surrender himself to God and take action. First John 4:19 says, “We love, because He first loved us.” This verse reveals that a man’s ability to love a woman is only found in the life that Jesus offers to live through him. A real man knows that he can do nothing apart from Christ (John 15:5). Therefore, ladies, reserve your heart for a guy who will rely upon Christ to love you.
waiting for a man with integrity is worth it. So kiss the bad boys goodbye
Ask yourself what kind of man would give you the peace and joy you truly deserve. Write that down, too. Use your second list as a litmus test. The next time you date a guy, ask yourself if he possesses the qualities you need to be happy.
 
I got the best of both worlds. Bad boy turned good by Christ. He had/has a the coolness and sexiness of the bad boy and all the character and inner strength of the good boy. I scored!
 
I think we all remembered how I answered this question when it was posed at the retreat that year in North Carolina and the laughter and hilarity that ensued afterward. I think we were all shocked that "meek and quiet" CB was speaking with such boldness, even if later she was quite embarrassed by her choice of wording.
 
It was indeed memorable.... :lol:
 
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