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Book Study

sweetlissa

Member
Real Person
Female
Ladies,
I purchased the book that Nathan recommended, "Without Pretense" and it arrived today. I started reading it. The forward is written by the author's second wife. I enjoyed the forward immensely and I thought maybe I would just share as I read. Anyone who is so inclined can read along with me and share whatever they want to share, but I thought this might be a good way to learn together.

SweetLissa
 
I got it from Amazon.com and because my order was over $25 I got free shipping. The book cost about $22 through amazon.

SweetLissa
 
This book is very hard to read for me. I began the book itself last night and found myself very very angry at the writer. He started out talking about discernment, which seemed like a good enough topic but then launched into a diatribe about Dairy and how obviously it is bad for us and anyone who still uses dairy products obviously shows no discernment. He said that Dairy products are a major factor in SIDS, but last time I checked it was pretty much unheard of to give an infant Cow's milk. So I am not sure he has accurate knowledge. Then he started in about how unnatural it is for a human to drink milk. However, I know that the Jews had dietary laws about Dairy products, which says to me that God wanted them to eat Dairy products (otherwise why have dietary laws about it, right?). So this author has a thing against Dairy and I felt like he is trying to make it a Godly thing to stop using Dairy. And it isn't that he says we shouldn't drink milk, he says all Dairy products are bad for us.

Anyway, I believe it is fine to have an opinion and to even follow that way of life if you feel like it is best for you and your family, but to make it about Discernment and about whether you are following God is not cool. Like hubby says, this guy is making major issues out of minor ones.

The next section is about smoking and lung cancer. He talks about how people who smoke, people who produce cigarettes (mentions RJ Reynolds by name) have no discernment. I stopped after that because the next section was about the alleged "war on drugs."

I feel like this author has a personal axe to grind and is using this book, which is supposed to be about marriage, to tell us about it. I see upcoming sections on "when does life begin?" and "discernment proceeds life, blindness is death itself." That is all in the first chapter. Chapter two begins talking about systems of marriage. It seems to call Poly marriage "Divine Marriage". I saw one subject heading that leads me to believe that the author has a problem with monogamy at all.

So far, ladies, I am not impressed.

SweetLissa
 
Oh, this may help some of you put this all into perspective,

On the title page, the complete title of the book including subtitles is

Without Pretense

The Final Resolution of the Multiple Wife Controversy

A Wholistic Guide for Establishing, Correcting and Maintaining Perfect Male/Female Relationships.

Perfect? Even God doesn't promise us perfect male/female relationships.

SweetLissa
 
"Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 Butter (H2529) and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good."

Apparently, God the Father, who sent the Son, and gave us His Spirit, as well as the Spirit of the Lord that inspired the prophet Isaiah, AND the Son of God, who did nothing but what the Father commanded, are all not as discerning as the wisdom of the author of that book.

H2529
חמה / חמאה
chem'âh / chêmâh
Total KJV Occurrences: 10
butter, 10
Gen_18:8, Deu_32:14, Jdg_5:25, 2Sa_17:29, Job_20:17, Job_29:6, Pro_30:33, Isa_7:15, Isa_7:22 (2)

Sorry for posting in Ladies Only, I searched new posts and did not look to see which section this one was under. I know that DeeAnn would have posted the same thing, so I claim a free pass "in lieu of."

But just this once.
 
Thank you Paul. You can post here as long as you agree with me (and DeAnn). I am guessing you were using a bit of sarcasm when you said that God didn't have the discernment of the author? Am I reading that right?

SweetLissa
 
More reading,

This guy talks about discernment as though he is the only one who has been given the gift. Here is his view on breast cancer.

"Utilizing the same example of the mother's milk; we find that Yah intended one thing and provided the means: but we are taught instead, that cow's milk should be our childrens' food. Without discernment and understanding, the whole world is drinking cow's milk. Not only do the children suffer but so do the mothers. Much of the breast cancer in women can be attributed to their no using the breast for its intended purpose."

Then he goes on to two quotes, that one would assume backed up his statment..

"According to the 1977 American Cancer Society's report: 43,644 women died of breast cancer; 4602 women died of cervical cancer; 13,500 women died of ovarian cancer; 26,936 women died of colon cancer and 57,535 female deaths were caused by lunch cancer. Numerous drugs that may prevent breast cancer or improve its treatment are being studied.

One is tamoxifen, a synthetic hormone that blocks the action of estrogen in the breast. Already used for treating breast cancer, it has been shown to reduce the likelihood of developing the disease in women who are considered high risk. Unfortunately, tamoxifen also has dangerous side effects, such as increased risk of uterine cancer and blod clots in the lungs." American Cancer society 1999.

Not only is this report 30+ years old but it doesn't mention the cause of breast cancer or even contributing factors. There is not one word of back up to his statement that not breastfeeding causes breast cancer.

Before anyone jumps on me about breastfeeding, I agree that it is the best for our children. I am not anti-breastfeeding in any way. But one thing doesn't necessarily lead to another.

And again, he refers to us feeding our infants cow's milk, but that is actually something they say not to do till the children are over 1 year old.

When I continued reading I found that he has Monogomy, Polygyny and Divine marriage. I got too tired to read the whole chapter, but it seems that Divine marriage is either form of marriage as long as it is devoted to serving God.

So Ladies, there you have it. I will keep reading, but I am not having fun.

SweetLissa
 
One more thing for our reading pleasure...

(The world's ignorance and Yah-less agenda) "promotes the wearing for the wrong clothes, so women parade around half nude and become rape victims."

Last time I did any research, rape was a crime of anger and rage, not sex. Of course there are perverts, but wearing a burka might turn one of them on. Basically this guy has a bunch of ideas and is twisting the world to fit his agenda.

I can see it now, " Daddy, I was raped."
"What were you wearing?"
"My work uniform."
"Then you deserved it, you were half undressed."

SweetLissa
 
Dear Lissa,

I am so sorry for your disappointment. I've said many times that there's not a single decent pro-polygamy book in modern America. The ones I've picked up have been so bad that I couldn't even get past the bad grammar. Then there's the lack of depth, the poorly connected ideas... Of course, I will keep searching. Let me know if you find anything worth buying.

Ironically, I have read some very touching stories in (anti-) polygamy autobiographies. Have you tried any of those?

PS - if anyone feels inspired to write a pro-poly book, please do. There's certainly a market for it.
 
What a book! Thanks for the warning. I know that you were posting the author's anti-dairy comments to show that he has a warped view of discernment, but I can't help but post a few verses in addition to Paul's that support dairy use.

Deut 32:14
Butter of kine (cows), and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.

Proverbs 27:27
And [thou shalt have] goats' milk enough for thy food, for the food of thy household, and [for] the maintenance for thy maidens.

Of course, these are only healthful if they are raw dairy products.

Thank you for putting up with my off-topic dairy cheerleading!

Katie

BTW: I appreciate your purple font, as I immediately know it's you!
 
Information on Breast Cancer. Funny, not one mention about breastfeeding although it seems that I have lots of risk because I have never had children, started menstruating early and have been obese in my past.

Risk factors you cannot change include:
• Age and gender — Your risk of developing breast cancer increases as you get older. The majority of advanced breast cancer cases are found in women over age 50. Women are 100 times more likely to get breast cancer then men.
• Family history of breast cancer ¬— You may also have a higher risk for breast cancer if you have a close relative who has had breast, uterine, ovarian or colon cancer. About 20 to 30 percent of women with breast cancer have a family history of the disease.
• Genes — Some people have genes that make them more prone to developing breast cancer. The most common gene defects are found in the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes. These genes normally produce proteins that protect you from cancer. But if a parent passes you a defective gene, you have an increased risk for breast cancer. Women with one of these defects have up to an 80 percent chance of getting breast cancer sometime during their life.
• Menstrual cycle — Women who get their periods early (before age 12) or went through menopause late (after age 55) have an increased risk for breast cancer.
Other risk factors include:
• Alcohol use — Drinking more than one to two glasses of alcohol a day may increase your risk for breast cancer.
• Childbirth — Women who have never had children or who had them only after age 30 have an increased risk for breast cancer. Being pregnant more than once or becoming pregnant at an early age reduces your risk of breast cancer.
• DES — Women who took diethylstilbestrol to prevent miscarriage may have an increased risk of breast cancer after age 40. This drug was given to the women from the 1940s to the 1960s.
• Hormone replacement therapy — You have a higher risk for breast cancer if you have received hormone replacement therapy for several years or more. Many women take HRT to reduce the symptoms of menopause.
• Obesity — Obesity has been linked to breast cancer, although this link is controversial. The theory is that obese women produce more estrogen, which can fuel the development of breast cancer.
• Radiation — If you received radiation therapy as a child or young adult to treat cancer of the chest area, you have a significantly higher risk for developing breast cancer.
The younger you started such radiation, the higher your risk, especially if the radiation was given when a female was developing breasts.
 
Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa! I have been blaming Nathan for this book selection and I am sorry. He did not recommend it. He only told us it was out there. Now, I am officially shelving it for more enjoyable reading.

SweetLissa
 
PS - if anyone feels inspired to write a pro-poly book, please do. There's certainly a market for it.[

This is certaiinly the place for the ideas for a great pro-poly book. WHy don't we all think about putting our two cents in and see if anyoone gets a really great idea?
 
Maybe a bunch of short stories or essays (hate that word, it sounds so boring). We could do a compilation of stuff. I know we have all kinds of writers on the board.

SweetLissa
 
Maybe a bunch of short stories or essays (hate that word, it sounds so boring). We could do a compilation of stuff. I know we have all kinds of writers on the board.


I think that's a great idea, Lissa. Just talking with some of the people on this site, so many people have different stories told in different tones. I think it would create a great picture of what PM is like.
 
Having multiple children does protect from breast cancer but breastfeeding does as well:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-canc ... ast-cancer
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ast_cancer
http://www.onemillioncampaign.org/doc/R ... eeding.pdf

you can do your own searches online. The studies range from some protection to lots. It stands to reason that not using the breasts for their intended purpose would not be a good thing in SOME way. breast cancer used to be known as the "nuns' disease"

bresatfeeding will also protect mom from ovarian cancer, uterine cancer, obesity, postpartum hemmorage, Type 2 diabetes, and postpartum deppression. New benefits for mom in terms of her health are cropping up all the time. The Lord has made it so what's good for one is good for all-There is that pesky "family is one, family is unit of society" concept again!

According to the UK article, because I had my kids and nursed continuosly for 6 1/2 years that reduces my premenopausal risk of breast cancer by more than 40%. Not so good that I had them about 11 years after the onset of menses! Anyway there are lots of other factors too but I don't look at it from a "risk reduction" but more like the inverse. NOT having kids and not breastfeeding is the risky behavior in terms of reproductive cancers.

About SIDS: breastfeeding prevents SIDS or rather not breastfeeding is a definite risk factor for SIDS. Most baby formulas today are made from Cow's milk. It is a major ingredient in it, pick up a can sometime and read label! Can't think why anyone who doesn't absolutely have to would voluntarily feed this to a little newborn! Cow's milk is implicated in SIDS as well as asthma:

"Hypersensitivity to milk is implicated as
a cause of sudden death in infancy."

The Lancet, vol. 2, 7160, November 19, 1960

"Those infants who died of SIDS expressed
inappropriate or inflammatory responses
suggesting violent allergic reactions to a
foreign protein. Lung tissue and cells
showed responses similar to bronchial
wall inflammation in asthma."

The Lancet, vol. 343, June 4, 1994

"Those who consumed cows milk were fourteen
times more likely to die from diarrhea-related
complications and four times more likely to
die of pneumonia than were breast-fed babies.
Intolerance and allergy to cow's milk products
is a factor in sudden infant death syndrome."

The Lancet, vol. 344, November 5, 1994

"The three most common milk proteins are
casein, beta-lactoglobulin, and alpha-lactalbumin.
The correlation between these three cow proteins
and childhood allergies is high...a strategy of
soy protein as a substitute for cow's milk is
suggested."

Pediatr-Med-Chir., September/October, 1994, 16(5) (Soy formulas have their own big problems!)

"Diet has a significant effect on the developing
immune system...formula fed babies, at the age
of 3 months, were secreting low levels of serum
antibodies to cow milk antigens contained in
their formula."

Pediatr-Allergy-Immunol., August, 1994, 5(3)

"Formula fed infants developed symptoms of
allergic rejection to cow milk proteins before
one month of age. The majority of infants
tested had two or more symptoms...About 50-70
percent experienced rashes or other skin
symptoms, 50-60 percent gastrointestinal
symptoms, and 20-30 percent respiratory
symptoms. The recommended therapy is to
avoid cow's milk."

Pediatr.-Allergy-Immunol., 1994, 5(5 Suppl)




Anyway, I am a lactation consultant after all so I couldn't let this golden opportunity slip by! :)

I think there is a desperate need for a polygyny book written by women for women!
 
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