Can You Provide The Basics?

[MarvelousMarvin]

steve asked:

were you able to quit cold-turkey?

It has been an ongoing process, called by many "sanctification." But God did change me so radically that when I went back to work Monday morning, after my Friday evening encounter with Him at a men's retreat, that my coworkers literally did not recognize me.

Probably the "cold turkey" change was my attitude. It's the habits that take time to get rid of. 21+ years and God is still working on them...

 

[Jim]

when justified than its righteous!

Justified by God than righteous, that's what I meant.

 

[Jim]

Can financial security be achieved after marriage, even if it's to a second wife?

sure, the family is the place where socialism works.

I was thinking about the Cody Brown family, where his second wife has a career and equally provides for the family. Is it wrong for a wife to work and contribute to the family? Maybe I'm missing your point.

 

[steve]

I was thinking about the Cody Brown family, where his second wife has a career and equally provides for the family. Is it wrong for a wife to work and contribute to the family? Maybe I'm missing your point.

change that to helps provide for the family. with cody having the full responsibility

i clearly wrote:
from each according to their ability
to each according to their need.

my point is that all work together for the benefit of the family, but the husband shoulders the RESPONSIBILITY for providing. he does not share that responsibilty for making sure that all are provided for, but the contributions of the other members are a benefit to him and to the rest of the family.
marriage is not an equal partnership with equal responsibilities but it is a partnership of blessing one another in the midst of widely differing responsibilities.

patriarchy is: (are you ready for this?) a Semi-democratic Socialistic Benevolent Dictatorship that supports itself in a capitolistic relationship with the surrounding society.

 

[Jim]

The gov will never run out of money

our present administration believes this statement to be true, and are trying like crazy to prove it.

it is an assumption that will end in disaster if allowed to run unchecked.[/quote] As long as they can get away with robbing Peter to pay Paul, it will continue until either, Christ returns or there is a revolt.

 

[Jim]

patriarchy is: (are you ready for this?) a Semi-democratic Socialistic Benevolent Dictatorship that supports itself in a capitolistic relationship with the surrounding society.[/quote] :roll: WOW, i'll have to think about that one for awhile!

 

[Jim]

Do you think that polgamy or concubinage is God's welfare program for woman?

 

[CecilW]

What if this is the wrong question?

Some men have great skill at acquiring and perhaps heaping up money. Others do not. This skill does not predict how well they will do as a husband or father modeled after Jesus and Father God. In fact, Jesus said that it is more difficult for a rich man to get into heaven.

Having said that, Our families should be modeled after the family of God. In that family, "My God shall supply all your needs." -- Phil 4:19. So provision comes through and from the Father, ultimately, and is sufficient! (Though you may have a work to do at some trade.) So it would seem that the responsibility for provision for a man's family (which is HIS need) flows to them, ultimately, from the Father through the father, though family members will have assigned tasks as well.

It therefore follows that the correct question might well be something more along the line of, "Are you connected into the flow of adequate (and above all you ask or even think) Divine Provision, as evidenced by all your needs being met with sufficient to be generous on every occasion? Or are you still accumulating debts that you just can't seem to get paid, and thus proving by your fruits that you are not?"

The former would have at least a chance of being a true Biblical family, while the latter's fruit speaks louder than however many words are being trumpeted!

This posting is not meant as accusative, but rather confessional. I fall into the latter group, and God is convicting me deeply over it. I have some 6,000+ books in my library, accumulated in a thirst for true wisdom. Recently, I spent 2.5 weeks with only one of them available -- my NKJV Bible -- and was shocked to discover how truly it was all I really needed. 6,000+ volumes read over the last 30+ years have NOT supplied all my needs. But God offers to.

Get this actually into practice and it follows that it doesn't matter how many people God places under my care, nor in what capacity (George Mueller + 3000 orphans + staff + building program ...), God will supply ALL of "my", and thus "our" needs.

 

[sola scriptura]

Great points, Cecil!

 

[Jim]

I agree, good points Cecil! Polygamy does allow for the protection of women, as it provides covering and helps ensure the basics, along with giving a husband another helpmeet. I think that "the basics", as the world defines them, is quite different from how the Lord does. It probably would be the bare necessaties.

 

[Anonymous]

Steve, I pondered on your statement of true Patriarchy and I believe it is right on. I know the negative connotation
with the use of the word socialistic, but it is true as far as the biblical family. "for the good of the family" is its motto
under God's leadership, That is the goal of the husband. Thank you for the semi- democracy, we women do want
some of that. lol. I'm going to think on it again. Cecil, you always hit it on the bulls-eye (well,, not always) :lol:

 

[steve]

dede,
thankyou for being brave enough to comment on my understandably toxic statement

 

[CecilW]

Cecil, you always hit it on the bulls-eye (well,, not always) :lol:

Thanks, Dede. But all too often on the bulls-rump! :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

"My God shall supply all your needs." -- Phil 4:19

This is a promise based upon conditions being met by believers, not a carte Blanc provision. If it were, He has failed His people miserably. It is dependent on obedience, circumstances and His larger program.

 

[sola scriptura]

"My God shall supply all your needs." -- Phil 4:19

This is a promise based upon conditions being met by believers, not a carte Blanc provision. If it were, He has failed His people miserably. It is dependent on obedience, circumstances and His larger program.

It's also dependent on His interpretation of needs, not ours!

 

[CecilW]

I agree that is is dependent upon His definition of our needs, not ours. However, He also said that if we are in Him and He in us, we can as WHATSOEVER we will, and it will be done.

I find no wiggle room in the terms "ALL" or "WHATSOEVER". Nor room for me to accuse God of failing at His own promises.

Rather, I find much room to accuse myself of failing to ask properly or failing to collect. "My people are destroyed by lack of knowledge." Knowledge of what? How to deal with this stuff, apparently. "Let God be true, and every man a liar." God didn't prevaricate. Nor has He failed.

It is OUR lack of understanding about how to deal with it that is causing the problem. Of this I am SOLIDLY convinced. Also that the devil has been running a very successful blazer on us for a long, long time, convincing us that it ain't so, that God didn't mean what He said, or laid down invisible conditions, or failed to come through, or doesn't REALLY want us to have our needs met, or ... anything to keep us from stepping up to the window and simply collecting what God has provided. Let me give you an example:

You call and say, "Cecil, I'm stuck. Out of cash. Hungry. Whatever." I say, "No problem. I'll send you some cash through Walmart." If you believe me, you say "Thank you, Cecil." Then you tell your kids, "Money is on the way!" That's faith.

Half an hour later, I call back to say, "Did it. Here's the 8 digit code to go pick it up. Let me know if you need more." You no longer need faith for some future thing to come to pass. It is a done deal, a fact. You just gotta go collect.

But if you drive up to the front of Walmart, and wait for it to be delivered into your car window, nuthin's gonna happen. If you go inside, and tell the greeter or a random cashier to give you your $200, something may happen but it might well not be what you want.

If you are met at the door by someone who tries to turn you away by saying that Walmart is closed, or that only people weighing 95 lbs or less are allowed to collect at customer service, and you BELIEVE them instead of me, so walk off, you still haven't collected. But it IS still there waiting for you and in your name.

If, however, you tell the liar to scram, go into the service desk, and present the proper code and ID, you get to pass "Go" AND collect your $200!

Listen, I'm a human father. And I LOVE to provide everything needed to my kids. LOTS of extras, too. (Haven't always succeeded, but do love doing so.) If I, being sinful and thoroughly messed up in the natural, do so then how much more does God? Sorry. NOT gonna accuse Him of being less generous at heart than I, nor poorer than He says (Says it is ALL His.)

So somewhere along the line, we've listened to the liar, and/or failed to learn how to collect. Correcting that messed up situation is my current spiritual goal! For He wants us to be generous ourselves upon every occasion. But we can't pass on what we have not yet received!

Bring on the popcorn, folks! Another adventure approaches!

 

[CecilW]

"My God shall supply all your needs." -- Phil 4:19

This is a promise based upon conditions being met by believers, not a carte Blanc provision. If it were, He has failed His people miserably. It is dependent on obedience, circumstances and His larger program.

I thought so, too. Then Luke 6:35,6 slapped me upside the head, and hasn't quit. (Wish it would, but there it is!) And it is in red. Jesus said it Himself. Didn't just inspire some holy old man, or holy man or old, or whatever. *sigh*

Love your enemies. Do good and "lend", hoping for nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind (even) to the unthankful and evil. Therefore, be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.

If someone can show me a way around that, ...

 

[Anonymous]

Please understand, I am not accusing God of failing, in anything. I am saying that our expectations are skewed by 60+ years of false teaching. Far too many people, professing to believers, think of and treat God as an ATM, dispensing cash as requested. This is not who God is, nor is it what He promised. He can do so if He chooses, but that is rare, because He has a plan for us and His world at large. Errors that are being propagated in His name are many, here are a few. 1. God wants us all to prosper in this world. Yet Jesus told the disciples that they would always have the poor with them. 2. Prosperity is the evidence of a right walk with God. Please read the entire 11th chapter of Hebrews, the part that says "but others... these all died in faith". 3. You can have anything you want when you pray. Only if you want the right things. In James we are told, what you ought to say is, if the Lord wills, we will do... 4. Rewards are forthcoming when faithfulness is met. Yet Jesus said that we are not to lay up treasures upon earth, but in Heaven. 5. If you do right people will bless you and you will be happy in this world. I don't think the Apostles and other first and second century Christians got that memo. Nor have the multitude of those who are suffering for the name of Christ in foreign lands. Jesus said that in the world we will have persecution.

God has not failed, but too many are making promises that God did not authorize. Multitudes abandon the faith when God does not cash checks on someone else's account. We must lift our vision higher than the horizons of this world and live for our future. This relates to the OP in that no one can guarantee to meet needs beyond the desire to do so and the willingness to try to make it happen. It doesn't matter if it is one wife and kids or more. Where in scripture are we taught to hold off on having kids till we can afford it? No where. Cecil's explanation of the flow is right on. Our resources are not cash on hand or money in the bank, but confidence in the REAL promises of God. It is no mistake that Jesus taught His disciples to pray, "give us this day our DAILY bread." Remember the multitudes flocked to Jesus when He fed them the free lunches and put on a miraculous show for them, but where were they when He gave them the hard things to do and believe? Real discipleship is focused on the person of Christ and not His works.

 

[CecilW]

And yet, when he sent them out with nothing but the clothes on their backs (pretty much), when they returned, He asked if they lacked anything during their travels, and they said, "Nothing!" (My memory IS right on that, isn't it? Not an extra-biblical statement of someone else's?)

You're right, John, in that much error is taught. However, I will disagree with your inclusion of point 1. God takes pleasure in the prosperity of His people. (Psalms something or other) There is presumably no lack in Heaven. "The poor being with us always" was, I contend, sad prophecy, not a statement of the will of God, and is a result of sin in the world (not a finger pointing at individual instances).

There is a difference between ostentatious displayed, and a quiet sufficiency, with excess to share. The latter does seem to be God's intent for all of us. I way that while admitting the presence of persecution, and money management failure, and ... But maintain that it is still God's intent, though not a guarantee.

Au contraire, it seems equally clear that it is the devil's concerted attempt to impoverish us or keep us down. Why? 1st, to make the service of God appear unattractive to the outside observer. 2nd, he knows that the more true believers prosper, the more they use that prosperity against his own dark kingdom and designs.