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Church, Compromise, and The Lesser of Two Evils

DaPastor

DaPastor

Member
Real Person
Michelle,

You brought up a very good topic on the other thread:

Pastor Randy,

I'm struggling with similar issues myself right now, but at this point I don't know of another church that I would attend. It seems like I find a few hiccups with each church that I research. I guess I've decided to stay put at the church I'm at and just kinda do my own thing as well (I guess I should say God's thing). Michelle
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Because of our views about polygyny, there are very few church groups that eccept our position. As a result, some would contend that we should not fellowship with any church that does not fully embrace us. However, since the Word of God exhorts us in many ways to be an active participant in the body of Christ, I contend that it is the Lesser of Two Evils to go to a church that does not hold all the doctrines that we may personally embrace. Looking at a bigger picture, I doubt that any church would teach 100% what any of us hold to be true. The fact of the matter is Jesus told His disciples that "I will build my church". This means that Christ is involved with THE Church. Yes, the imperfect Church! Yes, the Church down the Street! Yes, the church that had doctrines that you may disagree with! If we say that we cannot fellowship with any church, then I contend that the problem is not the church - the problem is us! Looking throughout Church History, there have been two kinds of divisions (primarily) in the Church. One kind of division came about because a neglected truth was now being taught, causing people to choose between following God or holding on to tradition. Another kind of division came about because the arrogant felt that he/she were the ONLY TRUE representatives of truth. Many times this second group started off with the right heart, but pride blinded them from seeing the bigger picture of God's Church - His Bride - His Love - His Passion! The fact is, there will be people that receive eternal life from a myriad of imperfect churches throughout the world, and we need to love God's people no matter what Church they are attending. With that said, my exhortation is the same as the writer of Hebrews, we shouldn't be "forsaking our assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some", but we should exhort one another to love God and love His Church, that is, His people! This does not mean we have to embrace doctrines we disagree with. It just means that we need to "with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." This is not compromise! This is learning when and where to share the truth you and I may understand to be true!
 
Thanks, Pastor, for posting this issue. It has been weighing on my mind since I started reading the posts on BF beginning in 2008. It is really hard to worship at the current church I'm at because my eyes have been open to other truths that we are neglecting to practice at our church; however, I need to be in fellowship with other Christians--like you stated from Hebrews. It is just really difficult when I can't bring up some of the truths I've discovered from this site with my Christian brothers and sisters in whom I worship with. Sometimes I feel like I'm hiding something from them, and it goes against my grain not to be able to be honest with them for fear of excommunication. It would be the same not matter what church I attended especially with the pm issue.

Was it hard for you to break away from the Lutheran Church? I get so afraid of small groups for fear that they become to cultish with no one keeping the "leadership in check" and that sometimes smaller groups aren't reaching out to the multitudes.

I know that I'm not the only one feeling this way. I would love to hear how other people from this site are handling this issue.

Michelle
 
Randy, Michelle,
This is actually a topic that really hits home. I was born and raised southern baptist and then in 2001 I came into the truth of plural marriage and then in 2008 my studies and research led me more to believe like the Messianics than anyone else and there are practically no Messianic congregations around here. Well, there's like two. One of them, called the "Twelve Tribes" is pretty much a cult, but they're really nice though. The other one is led by a woman and that's just not me. So I know exactly what you mean. I really don't fit in much of anywhere around here. Especially not with the baptists, methodists, presbyterians, etc. So I'm really not sure what else to do either. I'm developing different various relationships with those that I am around on a regular basis and talk and fellowship religiously without even mentioning the existence of a denomination. This allows us to approach and fellowship with one another on a personal basis without ever thinking about denominational platforms. A lot like what happens at the retreats. I guess with me it basically boils down more and more that each situation is a situation where I and another person come together based on a certain topic of discussion, find common ground, respect each other, and enjoy fellowship even though we do not agree on everything. Again, this is a personal one-on-one fellowshipping without all the group think that happens in overcrowded congregations.
 
lutherangirl said:
Thanks, Pastor, for posting this issue. It has been weighing on my mind since I started reading the posts on BF beginning in 2008. It is really hard to worship at the current church I'm at because my eyes have been open to other truths that we are neglecting to practice at our church; however, I need to be in fellowship with other Christians--like you stated from Hebrews. It is just really difficult when I can't bring up some of the truths I've discovered from this site with my Christian brothers and sisters in whom I worship with. Sometimes I feel like I'm hiding something from them, and it goes against my grain not to be able to be honest with them for fear of excommunication. It would be the same not matter what church I attended especially with the pm issue.

Was it hard for you to break away from the Lutheran Church? I get so afraid of small groups for fear that they become to cultish with no one keeping the "leadership in check" and that sometimes smaller groups aren't reaching out to the multitudes.

I know that I'm not the only one feeling this way. I would love to hear how other people from this site are handling this issue.
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Hi Michelle,

As far as it being hard to leave the Lutheran Church, in my case it wasn't. I left when I was a child in rebellion, and by the time I had returned to Christ and went to Seminary I had been going to another church for a long time. Generally speaking, it is usually quite hard for anyone to leave a church that they have been a part of for many years. In fact, even Martin Luther did not plan on leaving the Catholic Church. All he wanted to do is help correct the errors. In your case, you and your husbnad would have to come to an agreemtnt before leaving. Where is your husband at with this issue?
 
Pastor & DukeofMarshall,

Thank you both for being so honest about this sensitive and personal subject. It is just nice to know that I'm not the only one having difficulties knowing where to fit in.

DukeofMarshall, I love the Matrix!!!!!

Pastor Randy,

It is a little more complicated with the subject on religion and my husband. He was baptized right before we got married. However, he is just starting going going to church. I've been a "church widow" for about twenty-two years. He is getting really inspired by the preaching of the minister at the Baptist Church where my daughter attends high school. My prayers are slowly being answered that he comes around to surrendering his life to Christ. I think we still have a long around ahead, so my focus lately has been on him growing his relationship for the Lord.

Michelle
 
Oddly enough though I have been scared to a place of not being able to trust in a christian community. A rift much like a divorce has happend for me. BUT having said that I agree with you post Da Pastor. Much more eliquant than me you have expressed this unscriptual need to seperate over the smallest disagreement. You can read my What Makes Us Family posted not to long ago to see how I feel about this.
 
I get so afraid of small groups for fear that they become to cultish with no one keeping the "leadership in check" and that sometimes smaller groups aren't reaching out to the multitudes
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I have found this to be true. I was told that even witness of the truth wouldn't be looked at when I was wrong repededly bullyed and eventualy expeled. Not even witness! Tottal disregard for the truth. Small groups even under umbralles of seeming organizations are in grave danger of becaming cultish. Who holds the leadership accountable. Well they do. And if they wont. God will have to and like it says in judgment day they will be held to a higher standerd. Scarry if you ask me. Did I mention how much I like being a partisipant.
 
marry-ella said:
I get so afraid of small groups for fear that they become to cultish with no one keeping the "leadership in check" and that sometimes smaller groups aren't reaching out to the multitudes
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I have found this to be true. I was told that even witness of the truth wouldn't be looked at when I was wrong repededly bullyed and eventualy expeled. Not even witness! Tottal disregard for the truth. Small groups even under umbralles of seeming organizations are in grave danger of becaming cultish. Who holds the leadership accountable. Well they do. And if they wont. God will have to and like it says in judgment day they will be held to a higher standerd. Scarry if you ask me. Did I mention how much I like being a partisipant.
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Yes, this is why I share with people that whether one is in a denomination, or whether one is in a small group - both have there set of problems. Either one can go astray, or either one can move toward a more Biblical model. The fact of the matter is where you have humans, you will have problems, and to run from "the church" merely because it has problems is simply not Biblical. I believe it is important that one find "a church" that comes closest to what one believes the Scripture teaches, get planted, endeavor to maintain the unity of the Spirit, learn love, acceptance and forgiveness, realizing that one main reason the Lord desires to plant you in a church is to "rub you the wrong way"! Yes, I said, to "rub you the wrong way". He desires to teach you how to love, forgive, and accept others that bother you; while sanding off the rough edges of your jaded character. If we would understand that it is the very heart of God to make us more like Christ, and the main way He does this is through relationships, then we will learn to cooperate and stop running from His program - the Local Church!
 
lutherangirl said:
Was it hard for you to break away from the Lutheran Church? I get so afraid of small groups for fear that they become to cultish with no one keeping the "leadership in check" and that sometimes smaller groups aren't reaching out to the multitudes.
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Growing up in a WELS Lutheran church, I would say even Lutheran synods can display "cult" like behavior such as there frowning upon visiting or infrequently attending non-lutheran fellowships. Leaving what I knew as "church" was difficult. It took a while to get used to the difference in music, order of worship (or lack there of at times IMO), how the church fellow-shipped outside of services.

lutherangirl said:
It is a little more complicated with the subject on religion and my husband. He was baptized right before we got married. However, he is just starting going going to church. I've been a "church widow" for about twenty-two years. He is getting really inspired by the preaching of the minister at the Baptist Church where my daughter attends high school. My prayers are slowly being answered that he comes around to surrendering his life to Christ. I think we still have a long around ahead, so my focus lately has been on him growing his relationship for the Lord.
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If your husband at some point wants to make a church home else where, follow him there. Any good Lutheran Reverend cannot argue with a wife following her husband's decision on where the family worships. You should easily defend yourself against official excommunication by presenting to the church board to statement that you are fulfilling your duty as a submissive wife following her husband just as Martin Luther wrote about.


We have the PM issue at church because the church we currently go to not only has monogamy doctrine but also state licensed also. I think its great in every way except its refusal of PM which is so disappointing but having "church shopped" for a year in the area, I would rather have only one "minor" issue than deal with issues where major salvation-robbing issues are prominent. My husband and I are still praying about starting a church locally since we currently commute 70 miles one way to church twice a week or more. Church contentment is difficult at times.
 
T-Cs Rebekka,

It is nice to hear from you again. I was wondering how you've been. What church do you currently attend?
 
I am a new member and find this discussion very interesting. I recently read a book "So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore" by Wayne Jacobson and Dave Coleman. It might be one you would enjoy. I have not read every posting on this discussion so please forgive me if the book has already been mentioned. :|
 
Hey Jeanie, welcome to the discussion and the forums. Be sure to tell us a little about yourself in the Introductions section if you haven't already.

Blessings,

Doc
 
Hi Jeannie,

Welcome! Thanks for the info regarding that book. I don't think it has been mentioned before.

Michelle
 
Jean is family. (Sibling type) She is my sister. Great Christian lady, dedicated single mom. I will leave anymore for her to say if she wants. All my brothers (3) and sisters (also 3) (except maybe one) know how I believe on plural and some understand and some raise their eybrows, but none think I am too odd to be family.
 
Welltan & Jeannie,

Welltan,
I'm glad that you posted, because looking back at the conversation with Jeannie I just noticed now that she is from Michigan. You said some very nice things about your sister. Are you orginally from Michigan?

Jeannie,
Are you anywhere near the Detroit area? Faithful Servant and I try to meet up at least once a month for fellowship and study if you would like to join. If you want to keep your location on the lowdown just send me a pm.

Merry Christmas to All,

Michelle
 
Was raised in the country between Cleveland and Columbus Ohio. I always thought that Michigan was a northern suburb of Cleveland, and Michigan had a football team that was the arch-enemy of the righteous Ohio State football team.
 
I live on the west side of Michigan in Grand Rapids. I use to live on the coast in Holland but due to financial and family medical issues I needed to be closer to work so moved into the city. I really miss country living and the closeness of a smaller community but am very thankful that God has provided what I need. If the opportunity arises I will let you know when I venture to your side of the mitten, Michelle. Merry Christmas to You also. Thanks Welltan, I Love You, Sis

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered; Forgive Them Anyway. If you are kind, People may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; Be Kind Anyway. If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies; Succeed Anyway. If you are honest and frank, People may cheat you; Be Honest and Frank Anyway. What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; Build Anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; Be Happy Anyway. The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do Good Anyway. Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; Give Your Best Anyway. You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God;
It Was Never Between You and Them Anyway.
 
welltan said:
Was raised in the country between Cleveland and Columbus Ohio. I always thought that Michigan was a northern suburb of Cleveland, and Michigan had a football team that was the arch-enemy of the righteous Ohio State football team.
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You are absolutely correct, our football teams are 'the arch-enemy of the righteous (your words forsure not mine) Ohio State football team.' :lol:

Michelle
 
jeannie said:
I live on the west side of Michigan in Grand Rapids. I use to live on the coast in Holland but due to financial and family medical issues I needed to be closer to work so moved into the city. I really miss country living and the closeness of a smaller community but am very thankful that God has provided what I need. If the opportunity arises I will let you know when I venture to your side of the mitten, Michelle. Merry Christmas to You also. Thanks Welltan, I Love You, Sis

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered; Forgive Them Anyway. If you are kind, People may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; Be Kind Anyway. If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies; Succeed Anyway. If you are honest and frank, People may cheat you; Be Honest and Frank Anyway. What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; Build Anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; Be Happy Anyway. The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do Good Anyway. Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; Give Your Best Anyway. You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God;
It Was Never Between You and Them Anyway.
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Jeannie,

Yes, if you are ever this way just let me know. I love your quote--it is so insightful and probably the best one I've heard in awhile.

Well, if Grand Rapids is like Detroit, you are freezing just like me. It's so cold outside, but we are going to fight the cold and go to church tonight. My husband is ready to pack up and move back down south. He has lived in Florida, Mississippi, Alabama, and Arizona. He moved back here for me to be closer to my family, but he hates the cold so much that I think one day we might end up somewhere warm and sunny year round.

Michelle
 
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