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Conditional forgiveness or unconditional forgiveness?

Johan Paulsson

Johan Paulsson

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There are people who are talking about forgiving people without repentance, i.e. people who are talking about unconditional forgiveness.

There are those who are saying that if you do not forgive people unconditionally then you will not be forgiven by THE LORD.

Questions

1. Is this true that people can not be forgiven by THE LORD if they do not forgive people unconditionally?
2. Where have people got this idea from that if you do not forgive people unconditionally then THE LORD will not forgive you?
3. For how long has this teaching been around that if you do not forgive people unconditionally then THE LORD will not forgive you?
4. Can this teaching be found inside the scripture?
5. What did Jesus Christ mean when he said ''Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...'' in Luke 23:24?
6. Did Jesus Christ lie about the need of repentance in order to become forgiven, saved and justified?
7. Was Jesus Christ contradicting other scriptures when saying ''Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...''?
8. Do you believe that the scripture is contradicting itself concerning forgiveness?
9. When Jesus Christ said ''I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.'' concerning forgiveness, was Jesus Christ then teaching about unconditional forgiveness, i.e. without repentance and without Godly sorrow?
10. Do you know anyone who forgives people without Godly sorrow and without repentance?
11. Is unconditional forgiveness against the scripture?
12. Is unconditional forgiveness consistent with the whole scripture?
13. Do you know anyone who requires and commands people to show repentance and Godly sorrow in order to forgive them?

I have been of the view before to forgive people without repentance.
This is called unconditional forgiveness.

Now I am definitely against unconditional forgiveness as I consider unconditional forgiveness as unbiblical, bad and wrong in the light of what the scripture teaches about this topic.

The scripture is clear about to forgive people based on repentance. This is called conditional forgiveness.

Therefore I am standing fully behind and for conditional forgiveness.
I require, expect and command repentance and Godly sorrow.

Questions

14. Are you forgiving people conditionally based on repentance and Godly sorrow?
15. Are you forgiving people unconditionally, i.e. without Godly sorrow and without repentance?
16. THE LORD forgives conditionally based on Godly sorrow and repentance?
17. THE LORD forgives unconditionally, i.e. without Godly sorrow and without repentance?
18. What do you teach your own children concerning forgiveness?
19. What would you teach your children about forgiveness if you would have children in the future?
20. Do you forgive your own children unconditionally if they have done anything wrong and bad against you?
21. Do you forgive your on children conditionally if they have done anything wrong and bad against you?
22. Do you want your children to repent from what they have done and said in order to forgive them?
23. If your children would choose to not repent from what they have said and done against you, something which is bad and wrong, are you then going to forgive them anyway without any sorrow and without any repentance?
24. You do not see it as necessary, and neither as important, for your children to show remorse and repentance for their bad, wrong and evil?
25. Are we following the example of THE LORD if we are teaching children to forgive one another unconditionally?
26. Are you willing to change your doctrine about forgiveness if you can be proven wrong about forgiveness?
 
Forgiveness is something the Lord has told us to do. Well, not exactly told to do, more like highly recommended.

Matthew 6:14–15
rFor if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, sbut if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

There is a choice for you, but as you see there are consequences.

I really understand not forgiving. It took me nearly a decade to forgive my ex wife. She had three affairs in less than a year and a half. I felt like an idiot in that I didn’t see it happening. The legal system allowed her to take my children away from me. I was definitely in unforgiveness. I felt like I had that right.

But what I have learned is this, forgiving others in not for their freedom of guilt and shame, but for our freedom. When I finally forgave her, I started walking a better life with God. And oddly enough, she started down the road to a return to her Christian walk.

But I truly get it, it is hard to forgive when you have been hurt badly.
 
Johan, one more thought. I allowed this unforgiveness to sit inside of me for nearly a decade. I lost so much time being hurt. As I look back now, it was time lost. I can never get that back.

I encourage you to consider the scripture I sent you. Don’t lose time over hate, it just wasn’t worth it.
 
Forgiving a person does not mean you have to allow them back into your life either. It’s difficult to allow a person back into your life if they are not repentant. So I understand you on that. But, as the scripture says, if you don’t forgive, neither will your father forgive you.
 
Phillip said:
Forgiving a person does not mean you have to allow them back into your life either. It’s difficult to allow a person back into your life if they are not repentant. So I understand you on that. But, as the scripture says, if you don’t forgive, neither will your father forgive you.
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Questions:

1. What you are saying is that you are forgiving people without any repentance and without any remorse from them? 2. Forgiving them even if they have caused you harm and offended you unrighteously?
3. Do you mean to say that Matthew 6:14-15 is talking about unconditional forgiveness?
4. How about Luke 17:3-4
Johan Paulsson said:
There are people who are talking about forgiving people without repentance, i.e. people who are talking about unconditional forgiveness.

There are those who are saying that if you do not forgive people unconditionally then you will not be forgiven by THE LORD.

Questions

1. Is this true that people can not be forgiven by THE LORD if they do not forgive people unconditionally?
2. Where have people got this idea from that if you do not forgive people unconditionally then THE LORD will not forgive you?
3. For how long has this teaching been around that if you do not forgive people unconditionally then THE LORD will not forgive you?
4. Can this teaching be found inside the scripture?
5. What did Jesus Christ mean when he said ''Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...'' in Luke 23:24?
6. Did Jesus Christ lie about the need of repentance in order to become forgiven, saved and justified?
7. Was Jesus Christ contradicting other scriptures when saying ''Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...''?
8. Do you believe that the scripture is contradicting itself concerning forgiveness?
9. When Jesus Christ said ''I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.'' concerning forgiveness, was Jesus Christ then teaching about unconditional forgiveness, i.e. without repentance and without Godly sorrow?
10. Do you know anyone who forgives people without Godly sorrow and without repentance?
11. Is unconditional forgiveness against the scripture?
12. Is unconditional forgiveness consistent with the whole scripture?
13. Do you know anyone who requires and commands people to show repentance and Godly sorrow in order to forgive them?

I have been of the view before to forgive people without repentance.
This is called unconditional forgiveness.

Now I am definitely against unconditional forgiveness as I consider unconditional forgiveness as unbiblical, bad and wrong in the light of what the scripture teaches about this topic.

The scripture is clear about to forgive people based on repentance. This is called conditional forgiveness.

Therefore I am standing fully behind and for conditional forgiveness.
I require, expect and command repentance and Godly sorrow.

Questions

14. Are you forgiving people conditionally based on repentance and Godly sorrow?
15. Are you forgiving people unconditionally, i.e. without Godly sorrow and without repentance?
16. THE LORD forgives conditionally based on Godly sorrow and repentance?
17. THE LORD forgives unconditionally, i.e. without Godly sorrow and without repentance?
18. What do you teach your own children concerning forgiveness?
19. What would you teach your children about forgiveness if you would have children in the future?
20. Do you forgive your own children unconditionally if they have done anything wrong and bad against you?
21. Do you forgive your on children conditionally if they have done anything wrong and bad against you?
22. Do you want your children to repent from what they have done and said in order to forgive them?
23. If your children would choose to not repent from what they have said and done against you, something which is bad and wrong, are you then going to forgive them anyway without any sorrow and without any repentance?
24. You do not see it as necessary, and neither as important, for your children to show remorse and repentance for their bad, wrong and evil?
25. Are we following the example of THE LORD if we are teaching children to forgive one another unconditionally?
26. Are you willing to change your doctrine about forgiveness if you can be proven wrong about forgiveness?
Click to expand...

Correction on myself Luke 23:34, not Luke 23:24.
 
Johan Paulsson said:
1. What you are saying is that you are forgiving people without any repentance and without any remorse from them? 2. Forgiving them even if they have caused you harm and offended you unrighteously?
Click to expand...
Back to Mathew 6:14-15, if you forgive, God will forgive you. If you don’t forgive, God will not forgive you. I recommend you reread that scripture. Let the scripture itself answer your question.

In Luke 17:3, I believe you are referring to the word rebuke. You have every right to correct and show disapproval when someone did you wrong. Not hate. Sometimes people don’t even know they did wrong. So show disapproval with love. But as Mathew 6 tells us, we need to forgive. Once again, forgiveness frees us to a closer walk with God. Not the person that offends us.

Luke 23:34, like I said, sometimes people do things wrong without even knowing what they did. So we forgive. It’s freeing.

Like I said earlier, I understand holding a grudge and not forgiving. But it’s like tieing ourselves up in chains.
 
I have to agree completely with Philip. Most people hurt people and don't even mean too. Forgiveness is who we are as Christians. Without it we are no different than the world we live. Besides when you forgive someone it is never really for them. It is for you. It is poison if left unchecked will destroy you. I've seen a lot of people even say they were over hurts and had forgiven someone but hadn't and I watched it turn to bitterness inside them. It may seem like weakness in the natural to be so forgiving but in the spiritual I believe you are waging good warfare.
 
Are we obligated to forgive a person of their trespass against us if they have not asked for it? Is that what you are asking?

Interesting question. My first inclination is no. But, is forgiveness a word, a formality, or an attitude?
 
Mojo said:
Are we obligated to forgive a person of their trespass against us if they have not asked for it? Is that what you are asking?
Click to expand...

My fallback attitude on this is that we are only to ask to be forgiven "as we forgive those who tresspass against us" along with "what measure you mete, it will be measured to you again"

Which I use to say: The way we approach forgiveness will directly affect the way we will receive it. I can recognize that if we confess our sins, He is faithfull to forgive them. At the same time Jesus prayed "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" well ahead of anyone asking His pardon for nailing Him to the cross..

This thought process leads me to want to forgive people, even if they aren't sorry and they haven't asked for it. Because oh mama do I have a lot to answer for. When selecting the measuring stick for "How Slumberfreeze should be judged" I would like the statement "Forgives his offenders under all circumstances, barring no extremes" to be the baseline.

I want Jesus to approach me with "Freely you gave forgiveness, requiring nothing, neither shall I require anything of you. In fact, you went out of your way to forgive those who hated you, and sought to bless them. Now you get to see what that looks like when I apply it to you, for you are truly a child of My Father."

Edit: I ask forgiveness for only responding to Mojo and not the OP. That list of questions looked formidable...
 
I believe forgiveness is not about them but all about me,that’s my attitude
I don’t think it is necessary or even important for the offender to repent for me to be able to forgive them
But Forgiving is not forgetting they are different
I can forgive but there is no need to forget
Although as I get older I forget more often and that is not forgiving that’s me just not caring or being forgetful
Holding on to an offence conditionally or to not forgive them is not good for us personally
It’s like intentionally swallowing poison and expecting them to die
Conditional forgiving would be like carrying the bottle of poison(for my own consumption) just in case they slip

So they slip and I cancel their forgiveness and now unforgive them? because I have a right to do that?

Carrying poison around at least metaphoricaly is such an effort, let it go.
Put the poison down
 
Phillip said:
Forgiving a person does not mean you have to allow them back into your life either. It’s difficult to allow a person back into your life if they are not repentant. So I understand you on that. But, as the scripture says, if you don’t forgive, neither will your father forgive you.
Click to expand...

I know THE LORD has commanded Believers in Jesus Christ and Christians to forgive one another if they confess their sins and repent and turn away from their sins.

I have though never seen that Believers in Jesus Christ and Christians are commanded to forgive without confession of sin and without repentance.

For me it is clear that THE LORD commanded Believers in Jesus Christ and Christians to forgive one another based on confessing their sins and based on repentance, as that is exactly what Luke 17:3-4 and James 5:16 are talking about.

My intention is to use my free will to follow what Jesus Christ said in Luke 17:3-4 despite what you quoted and despite what you said about your ex wife.

The scripture which you quoted from is not speaking about unconditional forgiveness in my eyes, in my view.

In my eyes and in my view Matthew 6:14-15 is speaking about conditional forgiveness as per Luke 17:3-4, not unconditional forgiveness as you have brought up in your example about your ex wife.

You have as well a choice to make.

Being consistent with the scripture, or being inconsistent with the scripture, are choices you can choose between.

I care about if you are consistent with the scripture or if you are inconsistent with the scripture.

I want to see consistency with the scripture. I do not want to see inconsistency with the scripture.
I encourage you to choose consistency. I discourage you to choose inconsistency.

Slumberfreeze said:
My fallback attitude on this is that we are only to ask to be forgiven "as we forgive those who tresspass against us" along with "what measure you mete, it will be measured to you again"

Which I use to say: The way we approach forgiveness will directly affect the way we will receive it. I can recognize that if we confess our sins, He is faithfull to forgive them. At the same time Jesus prayed "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" well ahead of anyone asking His pardon for nailing Him to the cross..

This thought process leads me to want to forgive people, even if they aren't sorry and they haven't asked for it. Because oh mama do I have a lot to answer for. When selecting the measuring stick for "How Slumberfreeze should be judged" I would like the statement "Forgives his offenders under all circumstances, barring no extremes" to be the baseline.

I want Jesus to approach me with "Freely you gave forgiveness, requiring nothing, neither shall I require anything of you. In fact, you went out of your way to forgive those who hated you, and sought to bless them. Now you get to see what that looks like when I apply it to you, for you are truly a child of My Father."

Edit: I ask forgiveness for only responding to Mojo and not the OP. That list of questions looked formidable...
Click to expand...

Here are the words in Luke 17:3-4...
_________________

Luke 17:3-4

3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
_________________

Here it is saying ''If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him'' and then later ''and if he repent, forgive him''
Here it looks like it is conditional forgiveness based on repentance.

Verse 4 continue on this and say ''And if he trespasses thee seven time in a day, and seven times in a day turn againt to thee, saying, I repent, thou shalt forgive him.''

Again, it looks like a person needs to repent in order to be forgiven even in verse 4.

This is also clear in Matthew 18 when it talks about forgiving a brother seventy times seven and when Jesus Christ brought up the parable of ''the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.''

Questions

1. Do you believe that you are a follower of THE LORD by practicing unconditional forgiveness?
2. THE LORD forgave sinners and unbelievers unconditionally in Luke 23:34?
3. Can you reconcile what you have said about unconditional forgiveness with conditional forgiveness in Luke 17:3-4?
4. Jesus Christ lied about conditional forgiveness in Luke 17:3-4?
5. Do you believe that you have followed Luke 17:3-4 by forgiving someone unconditionally?
6. Do you want me to follow conditional forgiveness according to Luke 17:3-4?
7. Do you want me to follow unconditional forgiveness according to what many people are doing today?
8. Do you consider what you have said so far about forgiveness as consistent with what Luke 17:3-4 says?
9. Do you believe that Jesus Christ contradicted all other scriptures which, more or less, talks about turning away from all sin and from all unrighteousness in order to receive forgiveness and grace/mercy?
10. Do you believe there is another interpretation of Luke 23:34 which can make more sense than to come to the conclusion that God forgave sinners and unbelievers unconditionally?
11. Have you rebuked anyone who has not repented from unforgiveness even though people has confessed their sins, has said ''I repent'' and has shown and proven repentance?
12. Do you believe that you can not be forgiven by God if you do not forgive people unconditionally?
13. Do you see yourself as obligated and commanded to forgive someone who has offended you unrighteously even though this person has not confessed his/her sins and neither proven any sign of repentance?
 
@Johan Paulsson, these verses in Luke are exactly what I was referring to when I asked if we are obligated to forgive without a specific act of repentance and asking yo be forgiven.

But, are we prevented from doing it if it didn't first happen? We're not obligated, but can we do it anyway? Is it a sin to forgive without repentance?

@Slumberfreeze points out a good verse and noted that Christ forgave prior to anyone repenting. So, should we be dogmatic, and require an act of repentance, or is that the least we can do, while Christ modeled a more spiritual way?
 
Pro-active versus re-active.

Mathew 6:14-15 is very proactive. Get it out of your heart and let it go. Don’t allow this to fester and become poison in your life.

Luke 17:3-4 is reactive. It deals with offenses in the way of the world. Wait till the offender says they are sorry. The difference is you are told to forgive at that point. Heck even the heathens do that.

Frankly, your views are flawed. They are skewed with your wish to be right more than forgiving those who hurt us.

This is why we forgive,

'and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. " Luke 11:2–4

These words are directly the words of our Lord Jesus. Should you choose to ignore these words, it’s falls on your back. No one else.
 
I won't deny that the command is there to rebuke my brother. Fellowship among the brethren needs to be worked towards at all times, from all possible angles.

Buuuut what of those of the world? My atheist co-worker I do not regard as my brother. Certainly, we do not have the same Father. If he steps on my toes, do I have to rebuke him? If I do, and he doesn't repent... may I not forgive him?

I've been under the yoke of unforgiveness before. It was a heavy chain around my neck for years! And the offender absolutely did not think he was in the wrong, even though I had plead my case to him at length. My forgiveness was unilateral, well received, and gave me freedom and peace and healed our relationship. I know the power of forgiveness, even if it is initiated without repentance.

So the idea of holding on to unforgiveness until the other person feels sorry enough to repent, for the sake of protocol, is a complete no-sell to me. We are not to let the sun go down on our anger. I have not managed to refuse to forgive someone without being angry with them.
 
I have long thought that failure to forgive hurts you a lot more than the other person. Even if you just view it from a selfish perspective it is important to forgive, move on, and do what you are meant to do with your life.

I am not saying there are not people out there that need to be rebuked. But in that case do it for them because you love them. Not because you need it.
 
Seems to me that rebuking someone and forgiving them at the same time would really send a powerful message.
 
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