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DeepSeek AI

M

MemeFan

Seasoned Member
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Chinese have launched new AI model named as per article title. It has better results on benchmarks than best of USA. Plus it's was cheaper to make (according to creators).

Best of all, it's open source.

Things are serious. Nvidia's stock has already fallen more than 10%. Google and Microsft have also taken some hammering.

Mentioning stock may seem strange, but US stock market is held up by only 7 stocks heavily exposed to artificial intelligence. So start of stock market crash?

China's DeepSeek AI Moves The Capital Of Tech From Palo Alto To Hangzhou | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

DeepSeek Pulls Rug Out On Nvidia, ASML | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com
 
I've been playing with it today, using it to assist with research for a work-related matter, and it's pretty impressive. I asked it a tough science question and it first displayed its stream-of-consciousness thought process working towards an answer, before giving a very comprehensive answer, which it was able to add to and refine with further questioning. I am increasingly seeing the practical usefulness of this technology.

It is rather interesting that the USA is betting on massively expensive proprietary AI models in central servers and trying to lead the world, with Trump's new "Stargate" project - and then China of all places publishes an open source model that is far more efficient and which you can in theory (if you know how to do these things) install on your own machines and set up so it is not phoning home and keeps all data in-house. Massively opening up the potential use-cases while reducing security concerns. It really flips philosophical preconceptions about the two country's approaches to such things upside down.

The USA is not going to lead the world in this. Asia is at least alongside if not ahead. This is going to spur a generation of user-level software that is built on underlying infrastructure from Chinese companies, not US companies. This will completely shake up the IT sector, which is still dominated by large US corporations both in hardware and software, but I think things will move quickly away from that now to a more varied landscape. The next few years will be very interesting.
 
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I see the use of AI for designer baby's, super genius and super soldiers as a coming arms race
 
Aside from the work-based questions I asked DeepSeek today, I did a random test to give it a short but tough problem. I gave it the below comic, which I have shared here before, and asked it simply "Please explain what this comic is about."

Interpreting a comic is really difficult. To do this, the model has to:
- Parse text from an image file
- Determine that there are different characters saying that text, and recognise what sort of characters they are
- Correctly determine which text was said by which character, and what order it was said in (this the model didn't get quite right, but close enough)
- Work out the cultural context (which it didn't get right first go and needed one prompt about)
- Interpret the cartoon in the light of that cultural context and explain what it means.

So it's a really difficult problem. See what you think of the result.

186a09b30a6e19b4dee7140fd6b28b48574a627c2d70daf4c20bedf2ba1488f2.jpg
DeepSeek said:
The comic titled "Alien Press Conference" appears to be a humorous and satirical take on the concept of extraterrestrial beings discussing religious or cultural figures, specifically Jesus. Here's a breakdown of the comic's content and possible meaning:

  1. Alien Press Conference: The setting is a press conference conducted by aliens, suggesting an otherworldly perspective on human affairs.
  2. Jesus? We've been waiting centuries for his second coming.: This line indicates that the aliens are aware of the Christian belief in the second coming of Jesus Christ. It humorously suggests that even aliens are anticipating this event.
  3. Really? He comes to us every year.: This response introduces a twist, implying that Jesus visits the aliens annually, which contrasts with the human expectation of a singular second coming.
  4. Wait. What did you do?: This line suggests curiosity or confusion from the human perspective, wondering how the aliens managed to have Jesus visit them regularly.
  5. We invited him for cookies.: This humorous response implies that the aliens' simple and friendly gesture of inviting Jesus for cookies is the reason for his annual visits.
  6. What did you do?: This final line, likely from the aliens, turns the question back to humans, highlighting the contrast between the aliens' approach and human actions, possibly referencing historical events like wars.
The comic uses humor and irony to comment on human religious expectations and actions, contrasting them with the aliens' seemingly simple and peaceful approach. The title "War and Peas" is a pun on "War and Peace," further emphasizing the contrast between conflict and simplicity.
Click to expand...
Second question: "Please consider what the New Testament says that people did to Jesus when he came to earth, and either revise your explanation of the comic if that changes your interpretation, or state that the interpretation is unchanged by that information."
DeepSeek said:
Thank you for pointing that out. Considering the New Testament narrative about how Jesus was treated during his time on Earth adds a deeper layer of meaning to the comic. Here's a revised interpretation:

  1. Alien Press Conference: The setting remains a press conference conducted by aliens, providing an external perspective on human actions and beliefs.
  2. Jesus? We've been waiting centuries for his second coming.: This line reflects the Christian belief in the second coming of Jesus Christ, highlighting the anticipation and hope associated with this event.
  3. Really? He comes to us every year.: The aliens' response introduces a twist, suggesting that Jesus visits them annually. This contrasts sharply with the human experience, where Jesus' first coming led to his crucifixion.
  4. Wait. What did you do?: This line indicates human curiosity or confusion about how the aliens have managed to have Jesus visit them regularly.
  5. We invited him for cookies.: The aliens' simple and friendly gesture of inviting Jesus for cookies stands in stark contrast to the human treatment of Jesus, which, according to the New Testament, included betrayal, persecution, and crucifixion.
  6. What did you do?: This final line, likely from the aliens, turns the question back to humans, emphasizing the contrast between the aliens' welcoming approach and the historical human actions towards Jesus.
The comic uses humor and irony to highlight the difference between the aliens' peaceful and welcoming reception of Jesus and the human actions that led to his crucifixion. The title "War and Peas" is a pun on "War and Peace," further underscoring the contrast between conflict and simplicity, and perhaps commenting on the missed opportunity for peace and understanding during Jesus' time on Earth.
Click to expand...
 
www.dailymail.co.uk

China's ChatGPT rival, DeepSeek, changes its answers in REAL-TIME

China's controversial ChatGPT rival, DeepSeek, censors politically sensitive responses in real-time and refuses to even name President Xi Jinping.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Asked about Tiananmen Square and Xi...

GIGO.

Would you rather have an AI-in-the-house built by Chinese Communists, or Silicon Valley Communists?
 
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Mark C said:
If it's connected to the web - beware "back doors."

It'd be a great way to infiltrate a LOT of private systems.
Click to expand...

Gosh...no reason to keep a clean box freshly imaged, ready to wipe at the drop of a hat.

Modernity sucks
 
paterfamilias said:
Gosh...no reason to keep a clean box freshly imaged, ready to wipe at the drop of a hat.
Click to expand...
If you really want to do that (and it's a good idea) - the only way to have even a chance at it today is to have it "air-gapped," and not connected to the internet.

Note that a 'smart enough' AI will be able to hide on a USB drive, too, and install itself, so this is a "limited time offer." (And may already be too late. Note that most, if not all, new PC BIOS already has the equivalent of a HARDWARE back-door built in. A smart AI will use it.)
 
Regarding Glen Beck's account of censorship, this is obviously a concern but is similar to the issues with Western models being not permitted to give answers on trans and race issues. It is a problem with AI based on central servers. Servers based in the West are guided by the philosophy of their curators, and servers based in China are guided by the philosophy of their creators.

Note that the DeepSeek AI is both open source (so any code relating to this can be found and changed), and small enough to host locally. When hosted locally, it (or another model like it) should not have these issues.

What Glen describes is a model that does a good job and gives the correct answers - and its answers are then censored by a second layer of censorship. Hence why the answers go up then are deleted. That second layer of censorship will be provided by the Chinese server the demonstration installation everyone is using is hosted on. Hosted locally there should be no second layer of censorship and the original answer, which is correct, should remain - and if there were a second layer of censorship baked into the open source code, that would be found and removed by someone.

DeepSeek itself is not the future, but it is a stepping stone. Its value comes in its efficiency and portability, and the open source code, not in the specific server running it that you can use today.
Mark C said:
If it's connected to the web - beware "back doors."
Click to expand...
Open source, remember? Can be found and removed.
 
It’s starting to sound like the whole Deep Seek thing may be a lie. The company that allegedly built it probably has billions of dollars worth of high end American chips. It may just be a Chinese copy of what America already has.
 
MemeFan said:
Chinese have launched new AI model named as per article title.
Click to expand...

Why hack your way into someone's computer when they're stupid enough to install a back door for you?

I am learning Ubuntu (Linux) on one of our computers and eventually moving the others to it because you cannot truly remove CoPilot from your Windows computer.
 
Mark C said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

China's ChatGPT rival, DeepSeek, changes its answers in REAL-TIME

China's controversial ChatGPT rival, DeepSeek, censors politically sensitive responses in real-time and refuses to even name President Xi Jinping.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Asked about Tiananmen Square and Xi...

GIGO.

Would you rather have an AI-in-the-house built by Chinese Communists, or Silicon Valley Communists?
Click to expand...
By Chinese Communists, obviously because I'm from West.

Because West model will censor what Western government doesn't want for me, while Chinese model will censor what Chinese government doesn't want for Chinese.
 
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MeganC said:
Why hack your way into someone's computer when they're stupid enough to install a back door for you?

I am learning Ubuntu (Linux) on one of our computers and eventually moving the others to it because you cannot truly remove CoPilot from your Windows computer.
Click to expand...
Use over browser. If you paranoid enough open virtual machine so no direct access to HW.
 
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FollowingHim said:
Note that the DeepSeek AI is both open source (so any code relating to this can be found and changed), and small enough to host locally. When hosted locally, it (or another model like it) should not have these issues.

What Glen describes is a model that does a good job and gives the correct answers - and its answers are then censored by a second layer of censorship. Hence why the answers go up then are deleted.
Click to expand...

This actually makes DeekSeek better.

You see, Western model use "safety" layer LLM to reorder your prompt into politically correct. So you never know what was actually send to "generator" LLM.

DeepSeek doesn't use this technique. It's "generator" LLM actually provides answer which get deleted in real time by safety layer. What it proves is that is has received your "pure" prompt.

EDIT: removed unnecessary qoute.
 
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What US strategy is/was can be best described as max chips. With (reportedly) 50X better efficiency DeepSeek wouldn't need all GPU farm.
 
And to the point (multiple stories on-line) about China having ripped off ChatGPT (et al) - surprise! But if it is truly "open source" then that should be readily verifiable. (BUT - OpenAI evidently all that 'open'...)
 
MemeFan said:
Use over browser. If you paranoid enough open virtual machine so so direct access to HW.
Click to expand...
Again, the back doors allegedly (and I don't doubt it in the least) access the BIOS, and thus the hardware.

And a true AGI, of the Terminator "Skynet" level, would cut through those 'safeguards' like a knife through hot butter.
 
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