• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Dowry, what is it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cap
  • Start date Start date
C

Cap

Guest
I have heard, and seen it applied biblically in the form of Rachel and Leah that a groom pays a bride or brides family. But I have also seen cases were a brides family pays a grooms family. Such as certain discussions about how Solomon came to have so many wives and concubines, through state negotiates, which he was paid through tribute to take women for the good of the state.

So what is it, and who pays who?
 
If we're talking biblically, I'm on the 'It doesn't exist at all' team. I actually think the practice itself is contrary to the biblical narrative of redemption. "Save sinful mankind, eh? Well... maybe if they pay me..."

I was curious about where Solomon entered into it and ended up on the Jewish Encyclopedia where dowry spoken about in some length.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5297-dowry

I think my eyes must have rolled completely back when I read "Later, the practice of giving a dowry to a daughter, as it is now understood, entirely superseded the gift or ransom given by the groom. so that in Talmudic times it is spoken of as a long established custom"

...

....

What color is un-surprised with a shade of cynical fatalism? Color me that one lol


As an aside: I know a young toolbox who tried to get a dowry out of his in-laws on biblical grounds. He didn't mention any place where a dowry is mentioned, he just said "the bible says you're supposed to give me a dowry". If I remember right, it didn't work.
 
If we're talking biblically, I'm on the 'It doesn't exist at all' team. I actually think the practice itself is contrary to the biblical narrative of redemption. "Save sinful mankind, eh? Well... maybe if they pay me..."
Isn't redemption, by definition, paying something to redeem someone or something? Happens over and over in Scripture...

Yeshua/Jesus redeemed us with everything He had.... 'you were bought with a price...' ??
 
It's seems like a very honorable thing to give something valuable to the bride and/or her father as she joins you, but I can't add more reasons other than what @PeteR said. I can see the world hating it though both because it is honorable and because it's easily twisted to look like you are buying a woman in the way we are used to hearing about people buying a woman.
 
There are two different things in history: dowry (from brides side to grooms side) and bride-price (from grooms side to brides side). Also related to this is dower (pension for widows); which wiki claims descends from dowry in Germany (though you can see the same functions being met in the code of Hammarabi thousands of years prior.).

I say "side" because sometimes it is paid by/to the groom/bride and sometimes by/to the family of them.

There is some confusion because some people, speak of dowry as any money that changes hands irrespective of direction; but that isn't strictly accurate in the formal sense. Modern translations sometimes fall into this confusion in their loose translations of Ex 22:16 which should be translated bride-price, not dowry. Bible commentaries will frequently call dowry what is more properly called bride-price.

Aside from violating a virgin (Ex 22:16), the Bible never commands dowry/bride-price; it just assumes it without comment or regulation. It was practiced widely throughout the OT. There are examples of this going to both the family and the bride at the same time (Gen 24:53, 34:12). Most of the references in the OT are to just a bride-price, but there is at least one example of probable dowry proper (Judges 1:14-15). And based on the legal history of Abraham's people, it is likely the early Israelites practiced dowry. The word translated 'marry' in the OT also implies purchase (or theft) of the bride.

But make no mistake, bride-price is commanded (Ex 22:16), a situation which occurs to probably 90% of Christian's today. That command presumes the widespread practice and that it should be done.

An interesting look at how these played out in history is the details in the code of Hammurabi (search dowry and 'purchase price'). They practiced both, which contrasts with the tendency of ethnographers to speak of societies as practicing one or the other. It also shows a variety of uses that it was put to which are good and beneficial that make it clear it's not so much that we stopped dowry, but we replaced it with other forms.

For example, dowry was how inheritance was passed down to the daughter; today we just wait until death of the father and fight over it; if he hasn't spend it all on lavish living first. Today people are proud of spending the inheritance, but our ancestors would have found that shameful and appalling.

Dowry was also used to provide for a widow. Today we expect state to provide for widows; but in truth we all pay for it via taxes (much which is lost to administrators) or our great great grandchildren pay for it via debt spending (plus interest many times over).

Dowry was also used to provide for divorced women. Today we accomplish that by turning the husband into a slave; a rank injustice. In contrast when dowry is given the amount is fixed, known ahead of time and agreed upon; a fair and just approach that doesn't make the man a slave nor subjugate him to a bad faith, unconscionable, adhesion contract.

The bride-price also acted as a guarantee, the husband would get it back if the wife died without producing sons. This suggest ways we could use purchase price and dowry to reform our current unjust divorce system and provide restitution to men whose wives leave them in violation of their vows.
 
Last edited:
A bride price is not a dowry. The bride price comes from the groom or his family. The dowry is from the wife’s father, entrusting his grandchildren’s inheritance to their mother in trust. This is why the dowry is itemized as part of the ketubah. There is also kiddushin (which are the engagement gifts) which are separate from the bride price. These are given directly to the bride to be, such as an engagement ring today. These are basically the earnest money for the life that will be given to her at consummation.

Just saw your post @rockfox
 
There is much recorded in Jewish history about the bride price and dowry and circumstances in which it was to be returned (or not) in case of a writing of divorcement, as well as circumstances of divorce/put away or death of a spouse. It is truly fascinating to me to see how a polygamous society solved all of these issues as well as inheritances etc.
 
I have a friend in Africa. A few years ago, he asked me to pray for him and his prayer request blew me away. He could not marry his woman of choice until he paid her Dowry. He was really distraught and was asking me for prayers that he would come up with the recommended payment. If I could remember correctly, it took him about a year and he eventually married her. It amazes me how things are so much more different in other parts of the world and especially this day and age.
 
Back
Top