Feminist Ideologies

[blugrniz4u]

It has been alluded on this forum that having the aforementioned mindset is damaging and hurtful.

If believing and demanding that I (as a woman) have the right to 1) an education, 2) to vote, 3) to drive, 4) to sit on a jury, 5) hold a paying job outside of my home, then color me a feminist.

Is it possible for a woman to have these beliefs AND believe that Jesus Christ struck a tent in human flesh to die for her sins? Yes. This woman does.

 

[Anonymous]

It has been alluded on this forum that having the aforementioned mindset is damaging and hurtful.

If believing and demanding that I (as a woman) have the right to 1) an education, 2) to vote, 3) to drive, 4) to sit on a jury, 5) hold a paying job outside of my home, then color me a feminist.

Is it possible for a woman to have these beliefs AND believe that Jesus Christ struck a tent in human flesh to die for her sins? Yes. This woman does.

These are rights guaranteed to women, by the Constitution of the USA, but these are not rights guaranteed to anyone (male or female) within the pages of the Bible. The feminism referred to in another thread is the "feminism" that permeates our land, that is hateful of Biblical patriarchy as portrayed by God's relationship to His people. I know, for myself, and I think I speak for most men on this forum that we do not wish to relegate women to the status of sub-standard citizens of the land or the kingdom of God. However, I must stand with the Word of God that declares there are distinct roles for men and women in the economy of God. Both genders prosper best when operating within the God designed sphere of influence.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

It has been alluded on this forum that having the aforementioned mindset is damaging and hurtful.

If believing and demanding that I (as a woman) have the right to 1) an education, 2) to vote, 3) to drive, 4) to sit on a jury, 5) hold a paying job outside of my home, then color me a feminist.

Is it possible for a woman to have these beliefs AND believe that Jesus Christ struck a tent in human flesh to die for her sins? Yes. This woman does.

It is possible to be saved and believe in some false doctrine at the same time. :lol: (By stating so I am not stating whether or not 1 through 5 are false doctrine )

By the way I know very few people who are educated after graduating from college but many who have been re-educated, allowing a woman to attend college is not the same as allowing a woman to be educated.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

I know what book I want as a gift (a gift rather than a purchase) because of it's current high price around $60 (otherwise I would have bought and read the book already.) It is so expensive but I definitely want to use a book like this for homeschooling when I have daughters at least if it is what I think it is (I have not purchased it to read it yet as of posting this.)

Women Against the Vote: Female Anti-Suffragism in Britain

Julia Bush

http://books.google.com/books/about/Wom ... iPGCv3kYwC

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Women-Against-V ... 019924877X

 

[Isabella]

It has been alluded on this forum that having the aforementioned mindset is damaging and hurtful.

If believing and demanding that I (as a woman) have the right to 1) an education, 2) to vote, 3) to drive, 4) to sit on a jury, 5) hold a paying job outside of my home, then color me a feminist.

Is it possible for a woman to have these beliefs AND believe that Jesus Christ struck a tent in human flesh to die for her sins? Yes. This woman does.

 

[steve]

what i believe is much too complex to try to explain here.
but mostly it involves the responsibilities (not rights) of men and the empowering of women.

steve, the most complicated man that my wife has ever met
(and she is no slouch, too complex for most men)

 

[CecilW]

Feminism: "Anything men can do, we can do better! I'm growing a beard!" -- Sir BumbleBerry's Non-Prospect

Presented by Steve's Nearly-As-Complicated Cousin, Cecil

 

[steve]

Presented by Steve's Nearly-As-Complicated Cousin, Cecil

glad to hear that we are not going to have to arm-wrestle for the title.

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

If believing and demanding that I (as a woman) have the right to 1) an education, 2) to vote, 3) to drive, 4) to sit on a jury, 5) hold a paying job outside of my home, then color me a feminist.

None of those issues in and of themselves are the root issue of feminism. The root issue is really one of the heart and motive. A godly woman can indeed do all of those things.

The real issue is why is she doing those things. Is she doing those things under the headship of Christ to bring him glory or if under a man as her head here on earth then is she doing those things with a goal to use those things in a helpful way to her head or family.

It goes back to the heart that we see in Proverbs 31 where the Bible shows the spirit and attitude of a godly woman. She has the attitude of seeking in all things to do her head good. The text reads "She does him good and not evil all the days of her life." At the end of the presentation of this woman's qualities we also read: "Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord she shall be praised."

So the issue is not so much about what one DOES but more about WHY one does what he or she does. A man is under the headship of Christ and he is to order his life with a goal to be pleasing to him. If that same man has a lady under him then he is to live to lead and love her as the Lord so leads and loves him. She under his headship glorifies God by living as her head's glory as she was created and designed for him (1 Cor. 11). If her heart is right she will do all that she does in order for those things to be helpful to him as in that way she glorifies God through her service to her man. The myriad of ways that can be done is unique to each family and their situation under the Lord's providence. But the key is the heart of the woman in the process as well as the heart of the man in the process.

 

[Isabella]

So you are saying women voting, being educated or driving is only a good thing if they are Christians? Women who want to do those things just because are......bad?

Woah.

B :?

 

[Isabella]

Feminism: "Anything men can do, we can do better! I'm growing a beard!"

Give me 30 years....I am sure I can get one going.....................

 

[steve]

3) to drive

drive?
really, blondie, how radical :!:
EVERYONE knows about women drivers

steve, the guy who wrecked his wife's p-up last week

 

[blugrniz4u]

This woman stands with the Word of God and agree that men and women have distinct roles in God's plan.

This woman does not agree that women can do everything a man can do and do it better.

However, this woman does believe that 'feminisim' evolved because women were sick and tired of the majority of narrow-minded men who failed miserably in followng the very biblical teachings they professed.

Are not the attributes of the Proverbs 31 woman, Virtue, Loyalty, Industry, Strength, Ministering, Wisdom, Kindness, Fear for God, just as desirable in a man??

What about Charity (as defined in 1Cor 13:4-8), Chaste (doesnt commit adultery or fornication), Sober (a sound mind), Discreet (modest in behavior and dress), Desire (to their spouse), and a Quiet Spirit (calm -- not demanding and noisy)???? These are the qualities that a 'christian' (man or woman) should have.

Seems that these men are the exception, not the rule, which is why 'feminism' went to the extreme.

Just my opinion.

 

[Isabella]

3) to drive

drive?
really, blondie, how radical :!:
EVERYONE knows about women drivers

steve, the guy who wrecked his wife's p-up last week

Drive? I don't want to drive, I want to be driven around wherever I want to go...

Like the Queen I am.....

 

[blugrniz4u]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

the two of you quack me up

 

[Anonymous]

None of those issues in and of themselves are the root issue of feminism. The root issue is really one of the heart and motive. A godly woman can indeed do all of those things.

Very true.
I vote, drive a car and I am college educated...and I am NOT a feminist. I am a firm believer that women should be educated or at least have viable job skills.

Blessings,
Fairlight

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

Isabella,

Much of the confusion you have is because you do not hear the word of the Lord because you are not one of his sheep. His sheep hear his voice and they know him. The Creation order applies universally to all people at all times in all places. The Lord's sheep understand this and they recognize the creation order as being universal. Headship, leadership, and roles and functions apply to all people. God created the man to lead and he created the woman to follow him when she comes underneath his headship. Adam in Hebrew means mankind. Adam represented the human race and as a man God created for him a woman as a helpmate. This is a universal principle for all people no matter rather they are born again or still in their sins.

Lost men are to be heads and lost women are to be under their man's leadership if they join to him. Of course we know that such is not the case because of the ravage nature of sin that destroys what loving leadership is to be and what loyal submission is to be. Thus, as Dr. Eggerichs says so well in his book, Love and Respect, the battle of the genders ensues when the two do not understand their proper roles and functions.

Sin is universal as well just like the creation order principle as well. It is why you are blinded and why to date you have not yet embraced the Lordship of Jesus Christ (see 1 Cor. 2:14; 2 Cor. 4:4). It is why I stumble and miss truths or opportunities to do good to others. It is why homes do not have harmony. It is why men rebel in pride against Christ and why women rebel against their head. It is why eventually all who are lost will be cast into judgment and hell to pay for their sins unless they flee to the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Isabella]

Oh I am not confused Dr. Allen, I just think your ideas are wrong on this particular issue.

B

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

However, this woman does believe that 'feminisim' evolved because women were sick and tired of the majority of narrow-minded men who failed miserably in followng the very biblical teachings they professed.

In essence every woman is born with a distrust in the heart of men because Adam the first head (a man) of the human race ruined her and everyone else following. But too before any of us get to hard on Adam we have to realize that Adam perfectly represented all of us and he did what we would have done had we been of age there in his shoes (see Romans 5:12 and following verses to end of chapter; we were there seminally in him).

Needless to say, and besides that aspect, yes it is an issue of immature men who neither know the Bible, the Lord, or how to actually live and lead as he so does with us. Immature and weak and slothful men and even uneducated men is a serious problem in our culture and that is so again because of sin. Sin does not discriminate.

Are not the attributes of the Proverbs 31 woman, Virtue, Loyalty, Industry, Strength, Ministering, Wisdom, Kindness, Fear for God, just as desirable in a man??

Sure it is. Yet too we have to keep in mind that principles are universal yet sometimes they operate or function differently in each gender. You would not per se want your daughter having the same type of strength as you would for your son. A woman's loyalty would be in one sense routed or operating differently than say a man's loyalty. For example, you would not want your daughter's loyalty to be go serve her country in a war and leave behind infants. But on the other hand a man might indeed be called to leave family behind to go fight and defend his family, neighbors, and country. The mother needs loyalty operating in one direction and the man needs loyalty operating in another direction. Both need to express and exhibit loyalty but the directional orientation of the way in which that loyalty is expressed will at times differ between genders.

What about Charity (as defined in 1Cor 13:4-8), Chaste (doesnt commit adultery or fornication), Sober (a sound mind), Discreet (modest in behavior and dress), Desire (to their spouse), and a Quiet Spirit (calm -- not demanding and noisy)???? These are the qualities that a 'christian' (man or woman) should have.

Of course and yes I am confident and in agreement that those are universal principles. Again they might operate and function a little differently when applied to each gender but they are indeed universal principles.

One theologian I am friends with made a good case once that 1 Tim. 3 gives good traits that a man needs as a leader. He also noted that Proverbs 31 gives good traits for a woman to have and that they apply really well because they are couched in a historical context of application to each gender. For instance, in 1 Tim. 3 we find that Paul says to Timothy the man is to be reasonable and not one full of wrath. Men are often disposed to war and/or aggression quicker than say a woman. On the other hand we see traits in Proverbs 31 that discuss elements that pertain more specifically to a woman in a family context. So when we apply the historical and grammatical method of biblical interpretation we see that God wrote out certain traits in actual historical contexts that teach us how to apply the principles in our own historical context.

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

Oh I am not confused

So then you have come to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins? Outside of that domain everyone is in the dark and without the light as Romans 3 teaches.