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Firebomb

Good post. Good intentions is what the movie creators had. Promotion of the movie by Christian community is with good intentions. Compared to the vast majority of movies, with promulgate adultery and divorce, this movie is commended because it goes against the grain. All the accusations against the movie could be made against Hosea. Yet we believe that Hosea did what God told him to do. I hope the movie isn't interpreted by Christian women in the way that the author describes. Could it be, yes. But that was not the intention. So are the attacks accurate, does the movie make the entire burden on the husband, and the wife is portrayed as a worthless whore that gets everything she wants in the end because of her evil ways? It could be seen that way, but I don't believe that was the intention of creators or how it was taken by Christian community at large.
 
Now THAT was one thought provoking diatribe! Especially for anyone in the midst of a similar experience!

My thoughts are a little jumbled, however. Is going through the process for someone who isn't doing their part worth it nonetheless? Certainly God went that far and more for me...
 
Well, not able to get to the link at the moment but I did see the movie. The movie was okay as movies go, definitely had a cheese factor. What I liked about the movie was the challenge for men to stand up and love their wives which can only be done with God's help.
As a general note, I hope that Christians take their movie making skills to the level of good Hollywood movies from a quality of acting, script-writing, cg, etc. Christianity has many compelling stories to tell and we should pursue it with the same level of excellence that put Christians in the past at the forefront of creativity.
 
Seth said:
So are the attacks accurate, does the movie make the entire burden on the husband, and the wife is portrayed as a worthless whore that gets everything she wants in the end because of her evil ways? It could be seen that way, but I don't believe that was the intention of creators or how it was taken by Christian community at large.
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lol....you must have watched a very different movie than the one I watched!

She was as much at fault for the marriage falling apart as he was. She wasn't a whore - she was flirting with the married Dr, not sleeping with him. She did not get what she wanted. What she wanted was a divorce and freedom from a stale and empty marriage to a man who preferred porn to a real wife. What she got was a man who decided to change his ways, trust in the Lord and take the steps needed to re-claim his marriage. You will note she was not initially delighted with that outcome. It took her a while to figure out that this was the real deal and that God's plan was so much better than hers.

The movie was a little cheesy, not a blockbuster quality movie, but given that there were many many volunteers used to make the movie they did a good job and they got their message across.
 
Within a week or so of this movies release I heard two different, very different.women claim that the man was responsible for the wifes flirtatious pursuit of another man. One was a young lady and a church goer who had cheated on her boyfriend with whom she was sexually active. The other was a middle aged woman, in a fundamentalist Baptist church, who uses a similar withholding method with her own husband.

Your review convinces me more that not seeing this film was a good idea.

Surprisingly, I haven't heard anything about the gospel presentation which was supposed to be the central feature of the movie.
 
I just mentioned this thread at dinner, and Noah volunteered: "Doc just didn't like it because it didn't have zombies."
 
So we get Noah to do his thing with his technolgy and slip some zombies in there and we can show it at the next retreat?
 
I love Way of the Master. It has helped me to start sharing the Gospel one to one. Eventually, I want to try open air. Have you worked out a more patriarchal approach?

I listen to Wretched Radio podcast everyday. I need a BF podcast.hint hint hint
 
It may be worth noting that at the end of the movie, Dad tells our hero that he hadn't done the dare to his wife, as the hero had assumed. She had done it to him. So apparently, the authors' intent was to suggest that if either spouse will do it for the other, the marriage stands a real good chance of improving.

In other words, it isn't only a man thang.

Having said that, we love Him because He first loved us and gave Himself for us. Seems appropriate for us men to go and do likewise.

Nor do I believe that saving for a boat for years is selfish or unchristlike, unloving, or just cause to start flirting with another married man. As usual, there is/was undoubtedly enough blame to go around. In fact, a case could be made that, with them both working, her observing that he had chosen to save some portion of his income, while she hadn't, until now there was a substantial sum, and then her deciding she wanted it for HER mom was, well, covetous, "What's mine is mine. And what's yours is mine, too."

And yet, two options were open. Divorce was the obvious, worldly expected choice. Or SOMEONE had to break the pattern.

Perhaps the point it not to point fingers, but to illustrate the power released when someone DOES.
 
Doc,

This is said with tongue in cheek, but even though I am a certified Southern Transplant, I can't STAND "Gone With The Wind!!" (Not a popular viewpoint for a Left Coaster to take in 'bama, mind you! ;)) Good gravy, if ever there were a movie that idolized dreadful, manipulative behavior on the part of both genders, GWTW is it.

As for Fireproof, it had some cheesy dearness and I felt was pretty even handed in exposing the selfishness of both Caleb and Catherine. I am glad they made the movie, however, (even with all its faults,) and the song "While I'm Waiting" is one of my faves.

The biggest problem is that it just "puts the ROME back in ROM-ance," ie, I'll worship you, you worship me, and we'll show the world how cool Christian marriage can be."

The best part of the movie is the out-takes and bloopers, especially the 60 second recap. :lol:
 
Wow! I have been offline for a couple of days, and surprised to see so many comments!

FTR, I do not hate the movie, even though Noah is right that there are no zombies in it.

In fact, up until last week I really LIKED the movie, and thought that it had a great message. It was one of the better 'christian' movies I've seen.

But now, looking at it through 'plural' eyes, there are so many more turns of the screw that I did not see before another viewing. Imagine my surprise when I searched online and found other believers who had come to similar considerations.

Both characters have enough blame to go around, to be sure. The most troubling aspect that I observe with this new viewing is the demand of 'the pursuit'. If only Caleb would ONLY pursue a little harder, and buy better flowers, or better gifts, or give that filthy boat money, or be more contrite, then his lady love would ultimately swoon his way, and together they would ride off into the sunset together, happily ever after.

This new perspective has forced me to reconsider what Paul meant in Ephesians 5 when he said "husbands love your wives". What did that first century love look like?

When we talk about love in our time, what do we REALLY mean? Take away all the western trappings, all the years of medieval romanticism, and all the modern misinformation, and really, what do you have? Is it love? What does that love you have look like?

What do women think love is? To be pursued and impressed?
What do men think love is? To conquer and win?

Lots of soul searching on my part on this one.

Doc
 
I have to say that when he bought flowers but not the "right" flowers I found that a little stomach churning.
 
Just had discussion with the hubby about this. He said he noticed lots of this stuff while watching the movie, but also commented that it was a "movie" and therefore not theologically sound. So I asked him if he expected that I loved him more because I just got a fantastic new car. He said "no" and if you did you would be wrong. And if he bought me a car with the goal of getting more of my love he would be wrong.

Reality is not a movie. Movies are not reality. They are a little piece of fantasy that gives us "the moral of the story".

If each of us takes away certain ideals from the movie then it has done its job. The messages I got from the movie were

1. Even if it seems hopeless it isn't
2. We should each be nurturing our marriage relationships every day
3. We should include God and prayer in our marriages.

No movie is ever going to live up to our expectations. Even Christian movies are written by humans and therefore will be imperfect. But at least we were not subjected to graphic sex and senseless swearing and violence in this movie.

SweetLissa
 
Doc, have you ever heard of the 5 love languages? Everyone thinks of what love is as different. Some people appreciate gifts, whilst others appreciate if you do something helpful around the house etc.

Love is a choice too. You can choose to love, or not love. Sometimes you need to work on it. The biggest mistake people make in my mind is that they think that marriage is about love. As soon as that love appears to go during a rough time they see that as an out and get divorced. You need to choose to love again and choose to stay committed no matter what.

BTW I haven't actually seen the movie. Maybe I should.
 
Me and My husband watched this movie years back. As I was watching it, I didn't have the right way of seeing straight through the spirit as my husband did, I was growing and learning, so as the movie reached it's end, my view was not the same as my husband's exactly. I saw only the man who slipped and later found God. But the women was not doing her part like a women of God would have been. She was the "women of God" in the movie and was not walking as a women of God would be, by winning the husband over without a word with her chaste conduct, showing fear of the Lord. She was not reverencing her husband either. Bad example of a women of God, this is through the modern Christians of today's eyes. They always on the women side, when that women is using alot of mouth, nagging, and just tearing the man down little by little, disrespecting and so on... I think bad example of a women of God. If they flipped it around a little showing more Godly behavoir from her, it would of been the approach that is needed in these now times. The man was becoming really frustrated because he had a contentious women at home.
So it's like he suguared her bad behavior instead of rebuking her bad behavoir. She totally blasted the thought of being a homemaker, when her husband would of liked her too. She was like most modern women of today. When he comes home from a hard work day all she did was nag and argue, about this and that not being done. He should of got his house in order when he came to God and then.........it would be right. He made her feel like she was right, when she was not.
 
May I suggest that, at the beginning, NEITHER was acting as a child of God. And their marriage was on the rocks! Headed straight for divorce!

Perhaps justly so, although I refuse to fault him for having carefully saved for a boat over many years, and being reluctant to just turn the proceeds over to his wife who had ALSO been earning, presumably pretty well, but had chosen not to save.

However, if the marriage was to be saved, SOMETHING had to give. SOMEONE had to begin acting like Christ, and begin pursuing the one who didn't deserve saving. Isn't that what Jesus did for you and me? Call it self-sacrificing. Call it investing (my preference). SOMEONE had to do it.

In this movie, the man does it, and it is effective. However, at the end, it is revealed that the man's MOTHER had done it to his father with equal success.

So, while I can find fault with elements of the movie, and do, I would like to suggest that the point is about someone in a relationship (either the man OR the woman) deciding to get EXTREMELY Christlike in seeking to restore the relationship.

There is no guarantee of it working. God lost Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels. Jesus lost Judas. You may still lose a husband, wife, sister-wife, or child.

The appropriate question would seem to be, "Will doing the Fireproof challenge raise the odds of restoring and improving the relationship?" I suspect that the answer must be "Yes!"

Does the man need to get his house in order? Appropriate roles and authority structure? Indubitably! But I suggest that the time to teach and work on these issues is when the relationship is strong -- NOT when your spouse is filing for divorce. Spouses, like everyone else, don't care how much you know until they know how much you care!

Cecil is now throwing a marshmallow at Sir BumbleBerry to knock him off his soapbox. Well, more like a small matchbox ... :lol:
 
HAS to be SirB. We all know that Cecil NEVER sermonizes nor is long-winded. And he wouldn't FIT on SirB's matchbox, um, er, soapbox. :o :roll: :lol:
 
Does the man need to get his house in order? Appropriate roles and authority structure? Indubitably! But I suggest that the time to teach and work on these issues is when the relationship is strong -- NOT when your spouse is filing for divorce. Spouses, like everyone else, don't care how much you know until they know how much you care!
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I think man dont stand up enough in their houses. They let the women do everything. They don't put their foot down, and therfore give the upper hand to the women. If only men would put their foot down; it's like the jezebel women women of today, very controlling and dominant. Men are scared to use authority in thier own houses. This is what this movie potrays. Yea they both were wrong, but I dont think women benifit from watching this movie. "And dont think men will benifit from watching this movie either because it shows the men just letting his wife get away with such bad behavoir. And she is pitied in the end.True love is like Jesus tuff love, when necessary. That's what us women need, if we don't get that rebuke and firmness the man is spoiling us. You dont reward good for bad behavoir. She needed somebody to put her in her place.
 
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