How the left is unreliable in our endeavors

[Daniel DeLuca]

I just got this in my Inbox, abd read through the Abstract. It can be enticing to see that these SSM folks realize that polygamy should be given some consideration, but the reality is that they are only interested in furthering their own cause.

https://www.academia.edu/6919704/PO..._THE_SAME-SEX_MARRIAGE_MOVEMENT?auto=download

 

[Slumberfreeze]

True. Also I wouldn't take their help if they offered it genuinely.

 

[rockfox]

Here is the thing about the left...none of the legal arguments for same sex marriage matter. All that matters is the end goal: legitimizing same-sex and delegitimizing heterosexual and normal marriage. You see this at work today where is straight pride event was opposed for being hateful.

So even though their legal arguments apply to poly marriage, it won't help us because it was never about the legal arguments. Those were just a means to an end.

So we will never have the true support of the left because we represent the old order. Polygyny is seen as unequal and will get their hate.

Though you may be able to disarm some critics or send them into cognitive dissonance by using their same sex marriage arguments against them when they argue against poly. But don't count on that to win the day legally. Why should the left care about your marriage rights when they've already made it clear they want you dead anyway?

 

[Jeff Ray]

I would accept their help.

I want to see PM decriminalized, and that will mean we'll have to get organized and get our hands dirty in the political process and make alliances we wouldn't otherwise make. That's how progress is made. If we don't, then in a generation we'll still be right where we are now. Or maybe we'll be worse off, because the forces that oppose us are organized and they are making progress too.

But the SSM community doesn't have a reason to support us, they already have what they set out to achieve. Now they are just consolidating their victory, and winning the attendant culture war. We represent a risk to them, that our lack of acceptance by the rest of society might drag them back down. Its a smart move on their part to distance themselves from us.

What we can do is appreciate that they have made our task much easier by setting a critical legal precedent. We could try to get our act together as a movement and follow their example, organizing and pressing ahead with some kind of plan, or we can keep going as we are, giving our adversaries plenty of time to bury us for another thousand years.

I'd rather win.

 

[steve]

So we will never have the true support of the left because we represent the old order.

More specifically, we represent Yah’s order.
It is the enemy of our souls that is driving the agenda and they will never be reasonable to anything that is righteous. Yah is their enemy, and thus so are we.

I heard an interesting fact the other day.
That the priestess/temple prostitutes for Astarte/Astaroth included transgendered males. Nothing new under the sun.
What we are dealing with today is Ba’al in his ever escalating war against Yah and we are approaching the climax.

 

[rockfox]

We could try to get our act together as a movement and follow their example, organizing and pressing ahead with some kind of plan

what example is that?

 

[Cap]

I don't think combining the alternate lifestyle platform with Christian poly people is a good thing. It is a separate thing and should be treated as such. Must poly dating sites have the majority of participants as alternate lifestyle followers and it's always a struggle for those who follow Christian values to separate from that group. If we get lumped in with them it would be almost impossible to break away once a connection was made.

 

[PeteR]

This is Yah's battle. Best to not fight the way the world fights. Walk/live righteousness and don't worry about worldly acceptance.

If necessary, He can/will direct in the court system. Til then, walk it out quietly and win hearts and minds with truth, one at a time.

 

[rockfox]

He can/will direct in the court system

So God directed the court system to legalize gay marriage?

I don't think combining the alternate lifestyle platform with Christian poly people is a good thing. It is a separate thing and should be treated as such. Must poly dating sites have the majority of participants as alternate lifestyle followers and it's always a struggle for those who follow Christian values to separate from that group. If we get lumped in with them it would be almost impossible to break away once a connection was made.

I don't think we need to add a P to LGBTQWERTY. But positioning ourselves as an alternative lifestyle is a viable path forward, maybe even the only one. What 'alternative lifestyle' does is get you legitimization as an 'alternative choice'. All the same logic and rhetoric that worked against conservatives and Christians to get them to stand down could be utilized by us. It's a natural fit for poly. And I fail to think of a major social change that hasn't gone through that route.

The alternative to that is you have to convince feminists and tradcons that they're wrong about marriage. Good luck.

If we get lumped in with them it would be almost impossible to break away once a connection was made.

Would it matter?

it's always a struggle for those who follow Christian values to separate from that group

I could say the same thing about church. We're ever the remnant.

 

[PeteR]

So God directed the court system to legalize gay marriage?

Wow. Talk about eisegetical parsing of a sentence without context...

 

[rockfox]

If necessary, He can/will direct in the court system.

You're saying God can direct the court system if He chooses. So either He did in the case of gay marriage, or He stayed His hand and let it happen; which is little different.

 

[Cap]

You're saying God can direct the court system if He chooses. So either He did in the case of gay marriage, or He stayed His hand and let it happen; which is little different.

God does things to wake people up. Which one did God do to pharoh? Or to the Hebrew people in the first place for that matter?

Our world of cause and effect eventually goes God's way in the end, the sooner we do it His way the better, but we do have to learn our lesson the hard way.

What would have changed if the court system hadn't got so bad or marriage come to the place it is? Probably nothing.

 

[Cap]

So God directed the court system to legalize gay marriage?

I don't think we need to add a P to LGBTQWERTY. But positioning ourselves as an alternative lifestyle is a viable path forward, maybe even the only one. What 'alternative lifestyle' does is get you legitimization as an 'alternative choice'. All the same logic and rhetoric that worked against conservatives and Christians to get them to stand down could be utilized by us. It's a natural fit for poly. And I fail to think of a major social change that hasn't gone through that route.

The alternative to that is you have to convince feminists and tradcons that they're wrong about marriage. Good luck.

Would it matter?

I could say the same thing about church. We're ever the remnant.

I don't think if you can't beat'm join'm is the right attitude. Good thing Daniel didn't do that.

 

[FollowingHim]

I would not be expending a lot of effort trying to join up with them and form a major political thrust on that basis. Teaming up with the devil can be expected to not work out well even if it looks good on paper...
But I would use their arguments on a case-by-case basis. As I've often said before, if someone official comes knocking with some sort of legal complaint, both wives should kiss then ask "Are you discriminating against us because of our sexuality? What is your name again?". The confusion that would ensue can only work in your favour...

 

[Cap]

Hey now @FollowingHim that's an interesting angle. So what if two Christian wives have a legal marriage and live with a man, for appearances?

 

[frederick]

So what if two Christian wives have a legal marriage and live with a man, for appearances?

Now that's an idea and it would be more acceptable to the LBGTQWERTY lot.

 

[rockfox]

So what if two Christian wives have a legal marriage and live with a man, for appearances?

Now there is a good example of wise as serpents innocent as doves.

I don't think if you can't beat'm join'm is the right attitude. Good thing Daniel didn't do that.

But Daniel did do that. He didn't do everything their way, but he did serve in their government and attain high position.

 

[FollowingHim]

Hey now @FollowingHim that's an interesting angle. So what if two Christian wives have a legal marriage and live with a man, for appearances?

Another thing to bear in mind is that if you don't have a legal marriage with wife #1, you have the facility to bring in two further wives as immigrant spouses, one legally marrying you and the other legally marrying her... I'm not saying you'd actually plan to do that, I'm just pointing out that this whole gay marriage thing does potentially double the number of people from third world countries that you could help practically. A fact which is probably irrelevant to 99% of us but could be very helpful for some family somewhere.

 

[rockfox]

Another thing to bear in mind is that if you don't have a legal marriage with wife #1, you have the facility to bring in two further wives as immigrant spouses, one legally marrying you and the other legally marrying her... I'm not saying you'd actually plan to do that, I'm just pointing out that this whole gay marriage thing does potentially double the number of people from third world countries that you could help practically. A fact which is probably irrelevant to 99% of us but could be very helpful for some family somewhere.

LOL!

 

[Cap]

So, there are ways to not join them but use them. Good things to think about.