"I know of 30 passages that specify one man and one woman"

[paterfamilias]

I was having a very brief conversation with a clearly Very intelligent young woman who at one point claimed to be a couple of different types of proddy and later to be orthodox. Someone who if I went souly on her writing on general topics of politics and culture, would be a great match. Very based to used the current pop culture slang.

She claimed that she did not have a cultural issue or personal issue with polygamy but that she had religious objections because of the aforementioned 30 separate specific prescriptions.
I asked her politely to prove it. That I was aware of a small number of passages that people used to make the claim that pliglife was verbotan but that I also had read rather a lot of debunking and proofs to the contrary. Requested that she tell me the passages so that I could read them and the background on them. Also asked her to walk me through when the policies and teachings changed as it was extremely common in the Bible generally speaking as well as the genetic record.
Pretty much a polite calling of Bullshit.
I have not heard back and I doubt that I will.

Figured that I would ask the group if there were any passages at all the explicitly specify 1 man and 1 woman. That sounds Way too much like modern retard level political rhetoric to me and I simply do not believe that if indeed it exists at all that the number approaches 30.


You are now on deck ladies and gentlemen. Am I off my head here?

 

[NickF]

There are numerous passages that use the singular form to indicate "wife" or "husband". If I had to guess, that's what she's talking about. The argument is this: "If it says 'love your wife as Christ loved the church', that means there can only be one wife."

It's a spurious argument as it ignores grammar rules. Any time the same thing occurs with a mention of "a son" that does not create a prescription to only have one son.

I'd get deeper into this but I'm only a couple days away from a long camping trip and don't really have the time to dive into it.

 

[NS4Liberty]

As far as I can tell, the strongest (not strong enough) monogamy only arguments are:

• Adam and Eve as pattern
• Man leave father and mother cleave to wife
• Jesus' teaching on divorce
• His "own" and her "own"
• Elder husband of one wife

At face value in english translations these can be compelling arguments. I understand why they ultimately fail, but to the average westerner it is enough for them to shut off their critical thinking on the subject.

Generally, when you have to go to tye Greek and study parts of speech, you have lost your audience.

 

[Keith Martin]

As far as I can tell, the strongest (not strong enough) monogamy only arguments are:

• Adam and Eve as pattern
• Man leave father and mother cleave to wife
• Jesus' teaching on divorce
• His "own" and her "own"
• Elder husband of one wife

At face value in english translations these can be compelling arguments. I understand why they ultimately fail, but to the average westerner it is enough for them to shut off their critical thinking on the subject.

Generally, when you have to go to tye Greek and study parts of speech, you have lost your audience.

And that's just five.

 

[Keith Martin]

I was having a very brief conversation with a clearly Very intelligent young woman who at one point claimed to be a couple of different types of proddy and later to be orthodox. Someone who if I went souly on her writing on general topics of politics and culture, would be a great match. Very based to used the current pop culture slang.

She claimed that she did not have a cultural issue or personal issue with polygamy but that she had religious objections because of the aforementioned 30 separate specific prescriptions.
I asked her politely to prove it. That I was aware of a small number of passages that people used to make the claim that pliglife was verbotan but that I also had read rather a lot of debunking and proofs to the contrary. Requested that she tell me the passages so that I could read them and the background on them. Also asked her to walk me through when the policies and teachings changed as it was extremely common in the Bible generally speaking as well as the genetic record.
Pretty much a polite calling of Bullshit.
I have not heard back and I doubt that I will.

Figured that I would ask the group if there were any passages at all the explicitly specify 1 man and 1 woman. That sounds Way too much like modern retard level political rhetoric to me and I simply do not believe that if indeed it exists at all that the number approaches 30.


You are now on deck ladies and gentlemen. Am I off my head here?

You don't need for us to pound the streets looking for other people's false arguments, @paterfamilias -- you had the perfect reaction. Just ask the person to produce the receipts. More often than not it's just a trope they heard somewhere that accomplished confirmation bias in them. I completed my first run-through of the entire Bible 64 years ago, and even specifically went looking for any definitive comprehensive monogamy-only instructions in Scripture a little over a decade ago -- and came up dry. I can promise you it's not there.

• Adam and Eve as pattern
• Man leave father and mother cleave to wife
• Jesus' teaching on divorce
• His "own" and her "own"
• Elder husband of one wife

@NS4Liberty has provide more than enough advance preparation you could do if you were of a mind to do it.

Or wait for @NickF's book to come out.

Or just go by Clyde Pilkington, Jr.'s book, The Great Omission.

Lastly, while she may have disappeared for now, that doesn't mean she won't mull all this over and come back for more of your compelling erudition, my friend.

 

[frederick]

I was having a very brief conversation with a clearly Very intelligent young woman who at one point claimed to be a couple of different types of proddy and later to be orthodox. Someone who if I went souly on her writing on general topics of politics and culture, would be a great match. Very based to used the current pop culture slang.

She claimed that she did not have a cultural issue or personal issue with polygamy but that she had religious objections because of the aforementioned 30 separate specific prescriptions.
I asked her politely to prove it. That I was aware of a small number of passages that people used to make the claim that pliglife was verbotan but that I also had read rather a lot of debunking and proofs to the contrary. Requested that she tell me the passages so that I could read them and the background on them. Also asked her to walk me through when the policies and teachings changed as it was extremely common in the Bible generally speaking as well as the genetic record.
Pretty much a polite calling of Bullshit.
I have not heard back and I doubt that I will.

Figured that I would ask the group if there were any passages at all the explicitly specify 1 man and 1 woman. That sounds Way too much like modern retard level political rhetoric to me and I simply do not believe that if indeed it exists at all that the number approaches 30.


You are now on deck ladies and gentlemen. Am I off my head here?

Like anything else in the Bible, if a person refuses to see the error in their argument, he or she will not see the truth (he or she - because there are only those two!).

Lastly, while she may have disappeared for now, that doesn't mean she won't mull all this over and come back for more of your compelling erudition, my friend.

So yes, she may come back with five or maybe six, but she won't have 30!

As far as I can tell, the strongest (not strong enough) monogamy only arguments are:

• Adam and Eve as pattern
• Man leave father and mother cleave to wife
• Jesus' teaching on divorce
• His "own" and her "own"
• Elder husband of one wife

Since you know the rebuttals to these erroneous arguments, you are set.

 

[NBTX11]

• Adam and Eve as pattern
• Man leave father and mother cleave to wife
• Jesus' teaching on divorce
• His "own" and her "own"
• Elder husband of one wife

These are the exact arguments I have heard used, and pretty much the only ones.

The "creation ideal" is a big one I see used. These arguments are easily refuted. I wrote a lengthy paper on polygyny and cited over 50 verses in support of it.

 

[theleastofthese]

Simply put, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter because nowhere in scripture is polygamy condemned. We must stop taking from and adding to scripture as we see fit.

Most churches are very left-leaning. Even the ones that don't appear to be, know enough to leave the verses referencing multiple wives out of Bible study and off of the pulpit.

If churches openly allow polygamy they're going to face the wraith of feminist culture. A culture that claims to want what's best for women, that is until a woman wants to be submissive to her husband, a large family with sisterwives and children, then she's brainwashed

 

[paterfamilias]

So yes, she may come back with five or maybe six, but she won't have 30

Since you know the rebuttals to these erroneous arguments, you are set.

You are correct. I know those rebuttals. I am less knowledgeable about their claims in the broader sense and wanted to make sure that was not more potential cherry picking I have not encountered.

My assertion is that the case against polygamy is a social one and not a religious one. Given the need to twist arguments and draw conclusions from cherry picked examples without explicit context.

 

[paterfamilias]

Simply put, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter because nowhere in scripture is polygamy condemned. We must stop taking from and adding to scripture as we see fit.

Most churches are very left-leaning. Even the ones that don't appear to be, know enough to leave the verses referencing multiple wives out of Bible study and off of the pulpit.

If churches openly allow polygamy they're going to face the wraith of feminist culture. A culture that claims to want what's best for women, that is until a woman wants to be submissive to her husband, a large family with sisterwives and children, then she's brainwashed

Yeeeeah....
Wants what is best for woman. Lots of cats, a high body count which keeps them from be able to bond, no children, no home just an apartment and serving corporations.
Good thing they did not have acloving husband, loving supportive sisterwives, children, more children they did not even have to birth, allo parents so you can still work at various periods if you want, home and big happy family.

Go feminism go

 

[Keith Martin]

My assertion is that the case against polygamy is a social one and not a religious one.

THIS is the nut of it.

 

[MemeFan]

My assertion is that the case against polygamy is a social one and not a religious one.

Always was.

 

[NBTX11]

I would like to see these 30 passages. Where are they?

I call bull****

 

[paterfamilias]

I would like to see these 30 passages. Where are they?

I call bull****

Complete bullshit

Question for the group.

A historical concept thing...in the timeline from the birth of Jesus on forward, when were the various passages written or attributed that the supposedly changed the position on polygamy? How many years or centuries later are we talking?

 

[Keith Martin]

Complete bullshit

Question for the group.

A historical concept thing...in the timeline from the birth of Jesus on forward, when were the various passages written or attributed that the supposedly changed the position on polygamy? How many years or centuries later are we talking?

The entire Bible was finished during the 1st century AD. The monkey business with polygyny and various other attacks on sexuality didn't start until the 4th century AD, as the Roman Church joined forces with Constantine to meld paganism with Christianity and bastardize ekklesia for the purpose of turning believers into religious serfs beholden to organized religion.

 

[frederick]

Complete bullshit

Question for the group.

A historical concept thing...in the timeline from the birth of Jesus on forward, when were the various passages written or attributed that the supposedly changed the position on polygamy? How many years or centuries later are we talking?

Different religous beliefs and ideas are nothing new, especially heretical ideas being taught by those who want to build a following and commercialise religion. And this includes teaching lies about marriage. In his epistle to Timothy, Paul warned saying, Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry,... (1 Tim. 4:1-3). But the biggest and most influential attack seems to have come from the Roman Catholic church with the forbidding of polygyny at the Council of Trent in 1563. The political and religious influence the Roman religion exerted continues to this day.

 

[OttoM]

Different religous beliefs and ideas are nothing new, especially heretical ideas being taught by those who want to build a following and commercialise religion. And this includes teaching lies about marriage. In his epistle to Timothy, Paul warned saying, Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry,... (1 Tim. 4:1-3). But the biggest and most influential attack seems to have come from the Roman Catholic church with the forbidding of polygyny at the Council of Trent in 1563. The political and religious influence the Roman religion exerted continues to this day.

Their church members have been brainwashed and deceived by the ancient serpent god. They do things that provoke Lord Jesus to anger, and when you point it out to them - they choose their love for their Roman Catholic traditions over love for God. This is the lust of the eyes - all the fancy cathedrals, great wealth, and treasure cause them to think they have God on their side. But the true God wore a crown of thorns - while the brood of viper wears a crown of gold.