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I'm new and interested; A few questions

C

cherishme

New Member
I'm currently a housewife, not happily married. Looking for a change. Since becoming a housewife 7 years ago, I've discovered how lonely it is. What I've been craving all these years are some people to share the endless chores with, people to talk to. I just discovered this forum, before today I didn't know there were people practicing this lifestyle (except for some groups that have broken away from the Mormon church).

So here are my main questions:

1) I thought this practice was illegal? Is it or isn't it? If it is, how do you get away with it? I'm vaguely aware of at least one man going to jail for something related to this?

2) Are the men wealthy enough to support their wives and children, or do the women need to earn incomes to help support the families too?

All in all, I think it would be a beautiful lifestyle. Not every woman would agree, but I'm one that does.
 
You came to the right place.

1) The bigamy (legally married to more than one person) laws, and anti-polygamy (claiming to have more than one spouse simultaneously) laws were passed here in the United States with the intention of shutting down the Mormon Church and preventing the Territory of Utah from becoming a State until it included Bigamy and anti-Polygamy laws in its Constitution. These laws will likely be struck down in the near future as they are unconstitutional in their nature. Here is a link to a legal review of these laws and as you read you will see that the Federal Government in the 1870s did to the Mormon Church the very thing the Constitution is supposed to protect us from. Furthermore the Federal Government only has the legal right to do what the Constitution states that it may do, which does not include defining or regulating marriage. So the Federal laws forcing the States to follow certain guidelines about marriage are unconstitutional.

It seems that most States and their legal authorities already understand the illegal nature of these laws and are not prosecuting unless other laws are broken. Underage marriage, abuse, etc…are all illegal whether you are in a monogamous or polygamous situation. If you look closely at most “polygamy” situations that have made the news recently you will see that if individuals were charged with anything it was probably not for bigamy or polygamy but some other offense.

http://www.houstonlawreview.org/archive ... forbes.pdf

2) Both. It seems almost every situation is unique and has its own set of circumstances. Since we grow up in a society that beats us over the head with the monogamy doctrine, few of us enter these relationships being experts in them. Take your time and study the numerous posts here and at other similar web sites. You can educate yourself rather quickly, so you may want to discuss your feelings and what you have discovered with your husband early on so he can learn and grow along with you.

Also it is not uncommon for the wife in a monogamous marriage to be the one that finds her sister wife and introduces her to her husband.
 
One brief comment about the word "illegal", cherishme --

it's a veritable minefield of mis-interpretation.

Can a "law" which itself violates the Supreme Law make something "illegal"? The popular understanding that, "all laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void," is said to come from the Supreme Court in the famous 1803 "Marbury v Madison" case. Many examples of "laws" obviously "repugnant" to the Constitution today certainly undermine that claim.

Other contradictions are equally clear. Having multiple AFFAIRS are widely encouraged -- from TV to politicians -- so long as they are obviously "only about sex". Adultery, once "illegal", is just fine nowadays, and is even protected if it involves homosexuality. (Whether such 'laws' are themselves 'illegal' is a somewhat twisted commentary on the whole issue as well, of course!)

Bottom line - at least to the extent that ANY "law" still applies in post-Constitutional "Amerika":

Don't get a "marriage license". Having more than one "wife" is arguable...
...having more than one LICENSED wife is "illegal".


PS> I would tend to argue that question 2 is becoming less clear by the day. As this new Greater Depression unfolds, the question will in many cases change from "supporting" families to survival. Perspectives will certainly change.
 
Mark C said:
Can a "law" which itself violates the Supreme Law make something "illegal"? The popular understanding that, "all laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void," is said to come from the Supreme Court in the famous 1803 "Marbury v Madison" case. Many examples of "laws" obviously "repugnant" to the Constitution today certainly undermine that claim.
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Even the Constitutional provisions of Free Speech and Freedom of Religion are trampled on in the name of some governmental interest now days. The Constitution of the US is not held very highly by those in government anyway. But I would like to add to Mark C's response about how that the government does not have the authority to change a law given by YaHuWaH. In Matthew 19, we read that He is the sole arbiter of who is and who is not married, and it is His determination - and not ours - which determines adultery, fornication, and other such items. So what man calls illegal, such as the eating of food without the washing of hands first (Mark 7), does not necessarily mean that it is in fact illegal.

Mark C said:
PS> I would tend to argue that question 2 is becoming less clear by the day. As this new Greater Depression unfolds, the question will in many cases change from "supporting" families to survival. Perspectives will certainly change.
Click to expand...

How many monogamous couples have to have both spouses working outside of the home. If one is to justify a man marrying a wife by whether or not he can support one means that most monogamous marriages would be disqualified. If you apply that scale to polygynous marriages, you must do the same with monogamous marriages as well.

Scott
 
cherishme said:
I'm currently a housewife, not happily married. Looking for a change.
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Hi "Cherishme"
The above quote really stood out to me.
I would personally never recommend polygyny to anyone who is already unhappily married. Poly can be great but it's not for everyone and it really shouldn't be used to solve marriage problems. There are more people in your home, which can produce specific challenges. Things like personal privacy and space are more limited and you would be sharing your husband with a co-wife, etc. All of these issues can be dealt with but if your own marriage relationship is not currently in good shape, then you may want to take some time and focus on strengthening your relationship with your husband before you think about adding another wife. What does your husband think about this ? Is he seriously interested in plural marriage ?
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
@ Fairlight

I am not certain what her concerns are but it seems to be primarily for companionship and help around the house. Maybe her husband travels a lot and she is home alone or with the children most of the time and would like someone there for moral support as well...I hope she will shed some light on this, but at first glance it doesn't seem to be that their relationship is in trouble, rather that she is lonely...just my take on her comments...
 
Fairlight and Scarecrow: Yes, I should have given more detail as to why I'm unhappily married, and how I'd like to improve my situation. First of all, I don't even want my current husband to be in my life once I can figure out how to get out of here. He's negative, worldly, sarcastic, cynical, bitter, jaded, irresponsible with money, sloppy, tactless...I could go on but enough said. See why I left that part out? It just makes me look bad to even have to say those things about someone, and he's been bringing me down for too long.

My inner joy emerges when he is at work, then he comes home and within moments his negativity fills the home, and it affects the children too. I could be so joyful with the right person to love, and "sisters" to share life & duties with too.

Thank you to those who shed light on the illegal vs. Legal / Constitutional aspects of polygamy. Yes our government has become so corrupted ever since it began to deviate from the Constitution. Very interesting. Thank you.
 
cherishme said:
Fairlight and Scarecrow: Yes, I should have given more detail as to why I'm unhappily married, and how I'd like to improve my situation. First of all, I don't even want my current husband to be in my life once I can figure out how to get out of here. He's negative, worldly, sarcastic, cynical, bitter, jaded, irresponsible with money, sloppy, tactless...I could go on but enough said. See why I left that part out? It just makes me look bad to even have to say those things about someone, and he's been bringing me down for too long.

My inner joy emerges when he is at work, then he comes home and within moments his negativity fills the home, and it affects the children too. I could be so joyful with the right person to love, and "sisters" to share life & duties with too.

Thank you to those who shed light on the illegal vs. Legal / Constitutional aspects of polygamy. Yes our government has become so corrupted ever since it began to deviate from the Constitution. Very interesting. Thank you.
Click to expand...

While I shall not pretend to know whether or not you are spiritually married to your husband, I will caution you on one point though. In the event that you are, then Matthew chapter 19 does say that the only way out would be for fornication. There are seemingly impossible situations to us that we come across that the Father knows is not impossible for us. It may take lots of prayer and may even take fasting to break through the hard part to come to a Scriptural resolution. We will be praying for you and if there is anything we can do, let us know.

Scott
 
“He's negative, worldly, sarcastic, cynical, bitter, jaded, irresponsible with money, sloppy, tactless...I could go on”

You need to sit down and have a heart to heart with him. If he is a believer there may be things he is struggling with that he doesn’t know how to deal with and he has become frustrated, and when one has been frustrated long enough it is easy to become angry and act as he is.

If he is a believer you are bound to him by covenant and you are to do everything possible to help build him up and support him. Your strength will be found in submission and prayer, and you cannot change him. I find the Serenity prayer to be very helpful at times.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
(I cannot change or control what others think and do; at best, if they respect me, I may be able to influence them)
Courage to change the things I can,
(The only thing that I truly can change and control is me.)
And wisdom to know the difference.
(Help me apply #1 and #2)

This is all assuming that you are a believer in Jesus as your Lord and Savior. If he is not a believer and he chooses to leave the relationship then you are not bound to him. There is a difference between a marriage covenant and a civil marriage.

1 Corinthians 7:13-14 If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

You need to find out if he truly has a relationship with the Lord. If he does then you need to support him and help him through his struggles. If he is not a believer I would tend to think by his behavior that he may not be around for long anyway.
 
I only have two points to make. It is not the wife's position to end any marriage, If she left her husband she clearly doesn't know her place in Gods authority. 1 Corinthians 11:9 and Romans 7:1,2,3. Second, I would not suggest the subject of Plural marriage to him if your marriage is not going well. No where in that beginning thread does Plural marriage sound like it could help either party. I agree very much with prayer and a real heart to heart conversation with your husband on how you truly feel about your marriage. Okay I lied... I do have more to say. To me, if you're not in a strong Religions family, a lot of prayer with some marriage counseling and just forget the plural marriage idea. Introducing PM to a non religious man with marriage issues leads me to think he would try it only for sexual relationship with another women. Sounds a little bit like Sarai and Hagar. Genesis 16:2 How could he be the head of the household for multiple wives when he isn't capable with one wife. If you two are in a Religious family I would not suggest PM at this point since your relationship is not a bond of two people in one. Genesis 2:24.

Seven
 
Cherishme,
I want to put in my thoughts here as well. Biblical Families is about saving families. We do not promote or encourage divorce, but as a whole we do not judge those who are divorced. There are members who have different opinions, and I am afraid you will get hit with a few of them.

I want to walk with the other women on this board who have encouraged you to find a Godly way to save the marriage you have. Going through a divorce is the single most painful process you will ever go through. And because you have children with him, he will never be completely out of your life anyway. I have seen people post that husbands who couldn't have cared less about their children, get very involved (negatively) when their ex-wife becomes part of a plural marriage.

All I am trying to say is that Divorce is not an answer. Anyone who has endured one will likely be the first one to tell you "Stop!" "Think about this!" It does more than take him from you. It completely rearranges your life. People who you think love you, turn their backs on you. People who you thought would stand with you "no matter what" walk away and choose sides.

I know those traits are hard to live with. But you would be amazed at what you can do by praying. And by submitting. Much of his negativity is from your criticism.

I would like to ask you to try something. Just for one day, try to find only nice things to say to him. Only praise him. Ignore anything negative. Thank him for going to work every day so that you can raise your children right. It doesn't matter that you don't feel it, he needs to hear it. Praise him. And avoid thinking negative thoughts too. The thoughts in your head are visible on your face.

If possible, try to remember that you are the bride of Christ. If Jesus walked in your door after work each night, how would you act? That is how you should act for your husband. Honor him and respect him. You will have to teach him to love you again.

He would rather please a loving and appreciative wife than be negative to a critical wife. For a day, say NOTHING negative.

Pro 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

I am not blaming you, but trying to help you see the rut you are both in. It is time for one of you to break free of the rut. He can't so you must. You can only control your behavior. You must trust God to take care of hubby's behavior and attitude.

I am available by PM if you need to talk.

SweetLissa
 
Sevensins said:
It is not the wife's position to end any marriage, If she left her husband she clearly doesn't know her place in Gods authority. 1 Corinthians 11:9 and Romans 7:1,2,3.
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Biblically-speaking this is true, but I think she can at least bring up the issue of divorce to him and ask him to follow through. She can also separate from him until he does. That's not the best idea but I think it's allowable by Biblical standards (Deuteronomy 24:1-4).
 
cherishme said:
I'm currently a housewife, not happily married. Looking for a change. Since becoming a housewife 7 years ago, I've discovered how lonely it is. What I've been craving all these years are some people to share the endless chores with, people to talk to. I just discovered this forum, before today I didn't know there were people practicing this lifestyle (except for some groups that have broken away from the Mormon church).

So here are my main questions:

1) I thought this practice was illegal? Is it or isn't it? If it is, how do you get away with it? I'm vaguely aware of at least one man going to jail for something related to this?
Click to expand...

Yes it is classified as a "criminal" offense, but it is rarely prosecuted. The greater chances are that you don't have to worry about it if you do decide to engage in it. Then again there are some folks who are trying to have polygamy decriminalized or made legal which I think is long overdue.

cherishme said:
2) Are the men wealthy enough to support their wives and children, or do the women need to earn incomes to help support the families too?
Click to expand...

Others have answered this, but I know in this culture and age, a lot of wives are no longer totally dependent on the husband. With women's rights and all women have advanced and are now working just as much as the men in some cases so many wives can support themselves.

cherishme said:
All in all, I think it would be a beautiful lifestyle. Not every woman would agree, but I'm one that does.
Click to expand...

It can be a beautiful lifestyle, esp. when both wives make good companions as well. By default you could have the closest friend you can have who can relate to the exact same marriage as you and you also have a husband. To some women, the social benefits of this is priceless.
 
Well first off Plural Marriage isn't going to save your marriage if any thing it will make it worse if you are already un happy. Before adding any one to your family why don't you and your husband sit down and find find out where you are with God. Because untill you get that fixed your marriage and a marriage to any one else isn't going to work. IMHO

Sorry it took me this long to write back, but I seen this and had to respond.

cherishme said:
I'm currently a housewife, not happily married. Looking for a change. Since becoming a housewife 7 years ago, I've discovered how lonely it is. What I've been craving all these years are some people to share the endless chores with, people to talk to. I just discovered this forum, before today I didn't know there were people practicing this lifestyle (except for some groups that have broken away from the Mormon church).

So here are my main questions:

1) I thought this practice was illegal? Is it or isn't it? If it is, how do you get away with it? I'm vaguely aware of at least one man going to jail for something related to this?

2) Are the men wealthy enough to support their wives and children, or do the women need to earn incomes to help support the families too?

All in all, I think it would be a beautiful lifestyle. Not every woman would agree, but I'm one that does.
Click to expand...
 
If you claim to be a Christian, then you are obligated to love and reverence your husband NO MATTER WHAT. If you would like to know more about how to do that, I would gladly mail you the book itsoktobesingle suggested for FREE (Created to be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl). I have extra copies for this purpose. You could PM me your address and I will mail it to you right away.

If you are not a Christian, well, that is a whole other story but even so, moving on to a plural family will not be the answer for your happiness. Joy and contentment is something that is within and is not based on circumstances. Please take it from me (a first wife), there are many, many, many challenges of plural marriage and it's not all fun and games like you may be imagining it to be. In my honest opinion, it takes a very selfless, Christ-like woman to be able to do this lifestyle successfully (this is not something I claim to have attained - I am far from it).

I will pray for you and your family!
 
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