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(In a Nutshell) Your Hermeneutical Approach

Mojo

Mojo

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Recently, @NBTX11 posed a question about slavery in the Bible. As I approached my replies to our brother, I already knew my basic line of retort. It came from how I approach scripture as a whole (my hermeneutic).

It got me thinking. Most people struggle with the validity of polygyny because of the paradigm under which they’ve been taught to approach scripture.

When you are called on to defend your views of polygyny, it can fall on deaf ears because people have a completely different hermeneutic that prevents them from understanding your views.

In a nutshell, how do you explain to people your approach to scripture that allows you to arrive at your views of polygyny?

*note: thoughtful answers are encouraged, but keep them short enough so that a person new to the topic of polygyny can follow along without getting overwhelmed with lengthy script.

Shalom
 
Mojo said:
Recently, @NBTX11 posed a question about slavery in the Bible. As I approached my replies to our brother, I already knew my basic line of retort. It came from how I approach scripture as a whole (my hermeneutic).

It got me thinking. Most people struggle with the validity of polygyny because of the paradigm under which they’ve been taught to approach scripture.

When you are called on to defend your views of polygyny, it can fall on deaf ears because people have a completely different hermeneutic that prevents them from understanding your views.

In a nutshell, how do you explain to people your approach to scripture that allows you to arrive at your views of polygyny?

*note: thoughtful answers are encouraged, but keep them short enough so that a person new to the topic of polygyny can follow along without getting overwhelmed with lengthy script.

Shalom
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Excellent topic, @Mojo
If you can get this into your brain you can get it in a nutshell. ;)
I tell people to get a blank piece of paper and write down what is ACTUALLY written in the Bible about this, and any other subject they wish to learn about. Start from Genesis and finish in The Revelation, and don't ignore anything.
Set out the commands and instructions separately from the others portions you write down.
Read any narrative on the matter over and over and understand what is written in light of commands or instructions given.
Keep in mind the nature and character of God as you read because He will not contradict who He is by what He says.

That's about where I start... .
 
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Mojo said:
In a nutshell, how do you explain to people your approach to scripture that allows you to arrive at your views of polygyny?
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Easy - but often 'verbotten' here, given that that same "hermeneutic" infects the entire 'sun-day church'.

It goes like this:

IF - as Shaul/Paul so clearly warned about (II Cor. 11) - that still-pagan 'church' preaches "another jesus" whom they DID NOT PREACH, because that fake "did away with the law," and "nailed it to the cross" - then what is the Truth?

The REAL One, Whose very Name reflects His Mission, as the Salvation of Yah, Who taught His very own Instruction as "one having Authority" (Matthew 7:28-29) and Who was not a liar - because in that same address (aka, the 'Sermon on the Mount') He started off by saying He would NOT, so long as heaven and earth still exist, change so much as the tiniest part ("one yod or tiddle") of what He Wrote for us (His "Torah" and "Prophets")
...then He did NOT.

He did not "raise the bar." He did not change His mind. He did not allow men who tried to "change times and seasons," or thought they could call Him up on the red phone and dare to tell Him what He got wrong THIS sunday, to do it either!

And that includes His Instruction for marriage. Every single yod and tiddle of it.

QED


PS> That is - amazingly - precisely the topic I am addressing this Sabbath in the midrash on "Ki Tisa," and the earlier, pre-'church' "golden calf."

That same idolatry remains. And Paul talks about it in II Corinthians 3, and they get that VERY wrong, too.
 
Mojo said:
In a nutshell, how do you explain to people your approach to scripture that allows you to arrive at your views of polygyny?
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I explain to them that polygyny facilitated my acquaintance with Scripture. Absent my family requiring me to live a more Godly life and to get to know Scripture I would have likely ended up devoutly secular and falsely believing that a 'good life' consisted of sleeping around, mountains of debt, drinking, drugs, and general debauchery.

Or dead like my brother, mother, and father.
 
MeganC said:
I explain to them that polygyny facilitated my acquaintance with Scripture. Absent my family requiring me to live a more Godly life and to get to know Scripture I would have likely ended up devoutly secular and falsely believing that a 'good life' consisted of sleeping around, mountains of debt, drinking, drugs, and general debauchery.

Or dead like my brother, mother, and father.
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Praise the Almighty that you escaped such a life.

To those who say that polygyny is the antithesis of godly, what is your reply? How do you justify it? Often, the biggest opponents of your lifestyle are those heavily steeped in scripture. What makes you and your approach different?
 
frederick said:
Start from Genesis and finish in The Revelation, and don't ignore anything.
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Average retort: “but those scriptures are divided into two covenants, the latter being filled with grace, and not law, therefore superior”

“As God progressively revealed himself from Genesis to Revelation, he was working towards his ideal. Polygyny wasn’t forbidden, but God was working his way towards monogamy, like we See in the NT.”
 
Mark C said:
He started off by saying He would NOT, so long as heaven and earth still exist, change so much as the tiniest part ("one yod or tiddle") of what He Wrote for us (His "Torah" and "Prophets")
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Average retort:

But he didn’t remove the Law or change it. He spiritualized it. His spirit lives within us and we are guided by the Spirit, not Laws.

Polygyny is spiritually at odds with God because of the lust in man’s heart that’s abhorred by God.
 
Mojo said:
But he didn’t remove the Law or change it. He spiritualized it. His spirit lives within us and we are guided by the Spirit, not Laws.
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So why does He say, "If you love Me, keep My commands"?

And His word can, and does PRESCRIBE polygyny in at least three demonstrable cases. But NEVER prohibits it.

I'd suggest that the claim that He 'spiritualized' something that He never changed, nor said He would, is not just a 'cop-out' - it's calling Him a liar.
 
MeganC said:
I explain to them that polygyny facilitated my acquaintance with Scripture. Absent my family requiring me to live a more Godly life and to get to know Scripture I would have likely ended up devoutly secular and falsely believing that a 'good life' consisted of sleeping around, mountains of debt, drinking, drugs, and general debauchery.

Or dead like my brother, mother, and father.
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Without scripture as a foundation our marriage might have ended over 20 years ago. I felt strongly about something...my husband opposed the idea. ...he used his veto power that I knew he had.

Authority eliminates differences.
 
My initial response was intended to be as succinct as possible.
The "Sermon on the Mount," however, while inclusive, was a much longer answer.

If He "changed His mind," or just shortly after saying He wouldn't change so much as the tiniest part (one yod or tiddle) of His Instruction to us ('the Torah and the Prophets')
...and we are to believe those who claim:
Mojo said:
Most fundamentalist Christians would claim to also follow your ['hyper literalist' ]approach.
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then why does He say, in the same speech, that the "path that leads to destruction is broad" - whole lotta folks go that way - and the path the leads to Life is not only "narrow," but "few there be that find it"?

I usually remind such that, while Yahushua Himself admitted there are "hard teachings" in His Word - polygyny/patriarchy isn't one of 'em.

It's actually undeniably clear. And He didn't change it.

Mojo said:
Polygyny is spiritually at odds with God because of the lust in man’s heart that’s abhorred by God.
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Do a search on the word "abomination" in Scripture. And you'll see what He really 'abhors'. It's now accepted in most "sunday schools."

Idolatry, and even "adding to" and "subtracting from" His Word.
 
Mark C said:
So why does He say, "If you love Me, keep My commands"?
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Average retort: “I do follow His commands. I follow the 10 commandments. That’s God’s morality”

“Jesus would never eliminate those 10 commands. Christian morality is of a higher ideal.”
 
*Note my replies to each person are meant to draw out and distill answers to common objections, while also trying to help reveal your hermeneutical approach. They are not necessarily my retorts.

Remember, there are lots of systematized theologies out there that prevent the remote possibility of seeing polygyny as acceptable. I won’t name them, but they’re out there. Many people don’t even realize they’ve been trained under them.

There is a trend for some churches and movements to begin looking at the OT in a much more reverential manner, and some even advocating for using it as the sole basis for our civil law and penal system. But even they would stop short of endorsing polygyny.

What makes your hermeneutical approach different than theirs?
 
Mojo said:
Average retort: “but those scriptures are divided into two covenants, the latter being filled with grace, and not law, therefore superior”

“As God progressively revealed himself from Genesis to Revelation, he was working towards his ideal. Polygyny wasn’t forbidden, but God was working his way towards monogamy, like we See in the NT.”
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Not to steal @frederick’s thunder or anything, but I thought I would jump in on this one point about “moving” towards monogamy in the New Testament. I have started asking questions of those who make this claim. It seems to make people stop and think about it. I haven’t really gotten any good answers, and most never responded again. Don’t know if that’s a good thing or if I just annoyed them to death. The jury is still out on that one.

People will say Christ only has one bride, the church, and we should mimic him and be monogamous. My questions to this one are these:

So Jesus is marrying the church? Do you know that the word translated “church” is the Greek word “ekklēsia“? Do you know that word means assembly? So Jesus will marry the assembly? Sounds plural to me.
Why did Jesus say that he goes to prepare a place for US, plural, and that in his Father’s house are many mansions? Why not just one for his one bride?
Is Christ marrying the church or the new Jerusalem?… both?
What does the parable of the ten virgins mean? Why are there ten? Who do they represent? If they represent us and we are the church, and Christ will marry the church, why use ten in the story? If they are not brides in the story, but rather bride’s maids, why? Why are brides maids who missed the wedding important enough to be talking to the bride groom? Late brides maids who missed the wedding hardly seem important enough for the bride groom to waste time speaking with on his wedding night. Also, if they’re bride’s maids they wouldn’t be staying with the groom anyway, so what difference does it make if they get tossed out? They were only going to be there for the evening anyway, right?
Jesus is the Son of God, but he is also God himself and God already depicted himself marrying two wives in an analogy so the “church” would be at least wife number three? It seems to me that polygyny more accurately reflects Christ’s relationship to us, than monogamy does.
 
Mojo said:
...What makes your hermeneutical approach different than theirs?
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Excellent points...so far as most of Romanized 'xtianity' is concerned. They may even be self-consistent.

But they are not consistent with the entirety of His Written Word.

The problem is much like arguing with atheists. They do not accept the validity of His Word, so there is no point arguing from that basis. What He said is immaterial to them.

And if "jesus" truly "did away with" that nasty "olde testament," then there is no point arguing with them, either. Likewise, Roman Catholics who accept "papal infallibility," and believe that if the 'the Pope' changed it - it doesn't matter WHAT 'God' says. There is no logical point of initial agreement.

The Bible says, "if the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?"

There is no point of convergence. No "Rock." No building of understanding, "line by line, precept by precept." There will be no common ground.

That, I contend, is why He also says, (Rev. 18:4) "come out of her, My people."

"What fellowship does 'righteousness' [obedience to His Word] have with 'lawlessness'?"

There really does come a time to "wipe the dust off your sandals" as a "witness against them."

I don't call it "sola Scriptura" - there really is no such thing, because context is vital to understanding.

But if He is "fickle," and isn't the same [yesterday, today, tomorrow] - then there's no basis for discussion.

So - I guess the real "hermeneutic" is Who do we serve? Which is why I contend the issue of idolatry, like it or not, is central to people's assumption. I contend that those who reject, not just polygyny, but ultimately so much of the rest of His Word along with it, are "preaching another jesus, whom we have not preached." (II Cor. 11:4)

To "pick and choose" what to obey, what to ignore - by whatever rationalization - amounts to what He warned against through all of Mark chapter 7:
"By your traditions, you have made the commandments of YHVH of no effect."
 
BTW - like many here, I did not START by believing that "the Bible" was in fact, "the Word of God."

I had to be dragged into that understanding, kicking and screaming.

(I could wax "nerdy" here; some might get it, others not so much:
But I took 'Differential Equations" as an electrical engineering student. And it just plain 'bugged the heck out of me' that we are always told, "assume a solution of the form: e to the minus st, (dt)" -- and I wanted to know WHY? Why do we know that? Can we prove it?

Answer: No, we can't prove it. It just works.

Much later, I finally realized that applied to ALL of His Universe. The solution that works is: His Word is True. Get used to it.)
 
Mojo said:
Average retort: “but those scriptures are divided into two covenants, the latter being filled with grace, and not law, therefore superior”
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Hence my approach to tell the person to, "Start from Genesis and finish in The Revelation, and don't ignore anything."

At the end of the day, my aim is to have the person arrive at an understanding of what IS written.

You asked, how do you explain to people your approach to scripture that allows you to arrive at your views of polygyny?
I actually want people to arrive at God's view of polygyny - along with everything else in the Bible. My view is of no importance because people will answer to Him, not me, for all they believe and do.
 
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MeganC said:
I explain to them that polygyny facilitated my acquaintance with Scripture. Absent my family requiring me to live a more Godly life and to get to know Scripture I would have likely ended up devoutly secular and falsely believing that a 'good life' consisted of sleeping around, mountains of debt, drinking, drugs, and general debauchery.

Or dead like my brother, mother, and father.
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Therefore, I thank God for His method in bringing you to a knowledge of the truth. He used mormon missionaries to motivate me to buy a Bible and start reading. Funnily enough, I started in Genesis and finished in The Revelation, not ignoring anything, and that led me out of the RC religion to faith in the Jesus who is the Christ in the Bible. The Word of God is living and powerful to accomplish His purposes. Shalom
 
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