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Is Jesus Christ God in the flesh?

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Steve,

So if I am reading this correctly you do then deny that Jesus is God in the flesh, right? You define deity as something other than God in the flesh, correct? Am I interpreting your words correctly?
 
BTW I think Scarecrow's point is that when someone embraces the idea that Jesus is "a god" but not the one true God who has come in the flesh then that makes the person in line with the Jehovah Witness. That is officially the view of the JW's and it is their public stance on the issue.

But back to the real question, which concerns what do you believe. You quote others and re-write others to make it sound like you define deity as meaning from heaven but less than actually being God in the flesh. Is that accurate? Are you saying that Jesus Christ is not God in the flesh but rather he is deity and by deity you mean Jesus is from heaven but still not God in the flesh?
 
My opinion on the deity of Christ follows the thought of John the Baptist. If a simple man would have sufficed then John the Baptist could have done it. In fact John the Baptist did die but not efficaciously as Christ did. We must include something more. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Pardon the list of scriptures, but at the end of these I do make another point.

Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”


John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

God and Jesus doing the same thing:
Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

I think part of the difficulty is a self-defense of ones impression of who we think God is rather than who God thinks he is. God is not threatened by a different interpretation of God but our impression of God might be. This mystery is a mystery. Understanding this mystery might not be totally attainable, else it would not be a mystery. A slow read of the 3rd chapter of Ephesians would be helpful.

John 8:58 - 57 "Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[n] going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
Don't get angry. I do think that much of the problem is that there is insecurity in the idea of any part of God on a cross. Even Jesus while on the cross knew there was more of God to pray to and he prayed. It is agreed that God is not so easily placed in a pail and carried to the dump. Rest assured that when all this was going on, God was softly spinning the orbit of Jupiter with his hand, kangaroos were peeking from the pouches in Australia and God knew you were sitting at your computer in the future. Your and my God has never been defeated by death. That's the whole point. When you find yourself shuddering at the mystery of even a part of God on the cross then just accept Christ's redemption and run to the resurrection. That's OK. That's what Christ wanted. There is a hug waiting.
 
Amen, using the OT, NT. Our opinion means nothing. If the Bible IS
the infallible, inspired, Word of God, then it stands alone. It is up
to mankind to believe or not to believe. In Romans chapter 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie .... I'm sure y'all know this
chapter. dd
 
"so prove it.
but you cannot because it is bull-pucky.
does the truth not matter to you? especially when you are slandering someone?

steve, the not-laughing-anymore judaizing pharisee"

Prove what? It was speculative opinion...that is still allowed from what I understand. And it wouldn't be slander, it would be liable because it was in print.

But I have been thinking about it a bit more (spent about 5 minutes on it) and thought that maybe I was a little premature in my opinion...I think now that possibly Jehovah's Judaizing Mormon Pharisee Witness might fit a little better...not sure...what do you think? :D
 
"It is agreed that God is not so easily placed in a pail and carried to the dump."

Too often people try to define God (put Him in a box) and become frustrated in doing so because it is simply impossible. What is possible is for us to allow the Holy Spirit to enlighten us as we read the Word of God. That is one of the primary ways that God speaks to us. We don't need to define Him, we just need to get to know Him better.

..."and God knew you were sitting at your computer in the future."

Thank you. So many people seem to think that we can make decisions doing things that God didn't know we would be doing.

"Your and my God has never been defeated by death."

Amen...all that needs to be said.

"That's the whole point. When you find yourself shuddering at the mystery of even a part of God on the cross then just accept Christ's redemption and run to the resurrection."

Amen and amen.
 
Tertullian, Schmertullian, I don't care what he said or didn't say. Nor do I care about what his predecessors or antecedents say or have said. This issue under discussion is only answerable from a man's heart as he reads and believes the Bible.
1 Timothy 3:15-16
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
There can be many passages of scripture to consider but none are contrary to this quoted above. There is no optional choice, either Jesus is fully God in a human body as a man or He is not. Every man must come to his own conclusion, but beware, our decisions reveal more than we may be aware of.

1 John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
 
John Whitten said:
Tertullian, Schmertullian, I don't care what he said or didn't say. Nor do I care about what his predecessors or antecedents say or have said. This issue under discussion is only answerable from a man's heart as he reads and believes the Bible.

AMEN !

John Whitten said:
There is no optional choice, either Jesus is fully God in a human body as a man or He is not. Every man must come to his own conclusion, but beware, our decisions reveal more than we may be aware of.

Agreed......and thank you !

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
It is important to not get so involved in argument that we lose sight of Biblical truth and let our tenacity for victory get in the way of righteous living and fellowship. Winning an argument is not worth avoiding TRUTH of God's Word.
 
Scripture is FULL of evidence that God the Father and Jesus are one in the same!

First we have God's answer to Moses regarding His name, "And God said to Moses, "I AM THAT I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" Exodus 3:14

Later Jesus uses this same name to reference Himself, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM you shall die in your sins." John 8:24; and again in John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM."

In Isiah 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, there is no God besides me.'" As we all know, there can only be one first and one last, there can not be two. Therefore, the only other option is to assume that God the Father and Jesus are one in the same when Jesus refers to Himself, in Revelation, that He is the first and the last. "...Do not be afraid, I am the first and the last..." Revelation 1:17

In Isaiah God says He is the ONLY savior, yet Christ is our savior, and He is called that multiple times. John 1:1 tells us, outright, that "the Word was with God and the Word was God."

Scripture is full of those references. Simply put, there is just no way you can escape from the fact that Jesus and God are one in the same.

Fun topic though!!! One of my favorites! :-)

WomanSeekingGod
 
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
BTW I think Scarecrow's point is that when someone embraces the idea that Jesus is "a god" but not the one true God who has come in the flesh then that makes the person in line with the Jehovah Witness. That is officially the view of the JW's and it is their public stance on the issue.
why do you have to cloud the discussion by assumptions? when did tod or i ever say that Yeshua was/is "a god"?

But back to the real question, which concerns what do you believe. You quote others and re-write others to make it sound like you define deity as meaning from heaven but less than actually being God in the flesh. Is that accurate? Are you saying that Jesus Christ is not God in the flesh but rather he is deity and by deity you mean Jesus is from heaven but still not God in the flesh?
i know that you want to jump straight to the condemnation, but can we discuss it a little first?

steve, the supposed judaizing pharisee

btw: you have no answer for the substance of my point about tertullian
 
i agree with the idea that there are mysteries that we do not understand yet. in fact, i think that it is the height of arrogance to think that we fully understand our Creator and can require all others to embrace the beliefs that we hold.

please consider these verses:

Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

i will ask my question using the common vernacular (even though it is less honouring) to avoid confusion.

was Jesus praying to Himself that we be Gods also as He was?

steve, the supposed judaizing pharisee
 
steve said:
was Jesus praying to Himself that we be Gods also as He was?

There would be some groups that would say "yes"...but I believe Jesus was praying that we would be "one" in unity and purpose......as for whether or not Jesus was God in the flesh, the Bible is clear on that. To quote part of the O.P.

1 Timothy 3:15-16
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
steve said:
i know that you want to jump straight to the condemnation

There may be those who disagree with you but no one has the right to condemn you.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Steve wrote,
was Jesus praying to Himself that we be Gods also as He was?

Steve, could you clear this up for me? I'm not sure if there is a comma missing. Do you mean to ask if Jesus was praying that we become Gods ourselves, become deity or were you asking if He were praying, That we become God's own people?
 
you mean to ask if Jesus was praying that we become Gods ourselves,
yup, if the doctrine that you hold is correct, that is the way that it reads.

steve, the supposed judaizing pharisee
 
Fairlight said:
steve said:
i know that you want to jump straight to the condemnation

There may be those who disagree with you but no one has the right to condemn you.

Blessings,
Fairlight
according to the athanasian creed:
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance...............
i am condemned.

if you do not hold to the athanasian creed, you will not condemn me, but then you are condemned for not believing in it.
isn't this fun? :)

steve, the condemned judaizing pharisee
 
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