A
Anonymous
Guest
DiscussingTheTopic said:
You perplex me, DTT! This thread is about the deity of Christ.
-
Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.
You perplex me, DTT! This thread is about the deity of Christ.
Is Jesus Christ God in the flesh? Short answer, "Yes."
Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “the Word was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church—the church of God—with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
That the New Testament is full of references to the divinity of Christ is difficult to deny. From the four canonical Gospels through the Book of Acts and the Pauline Epistles, Jesus is not only seen as the Messiah (or Christ), but also equated with God Himself. The Apostle Paul refers to the divinity of Christ when he calls Jesus our "great God and Savior" (Titus 2:13) and even says that Jesus existed in the "form of God" prior to His incarnation (Philippians 2:5-8). God the Father says regarding Jesus: "Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever" (Hebrews 1:8). Jesus is directly referred to as the Creator Himself (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17). Other biblical passages teach Christ's deity (Revelation 1:7, 2:8; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 5:4).
While these direct citations are sufficient to establish that the Bible claims Jesus is divine, a more indirect approach may prove to be more powerful. Jesus repeatedly placed Himself in the place of Yahweh by assuming the Father’s divine prerogatives. He was often doing and saying things that only God has a right to do and say. Jesus also referred to Himself in ways that hinted at His deity. Some of these instances provide us with the strongest proof of Jesus' divine self-understanding.
In Mark 14, Jesus stands accused at His trial before the High Priest. “Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven” (Mark 14:61-62). Here, Jesus is hearkening back to the Old Testament book of Daniel where the prophet Daniel states, “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed" (Daniel 7:13-14).
In this reference to Daniel's vision, Jesus is identifying Himself as the Son of Man, a person who was given “dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve Him.” The Son of Man has a dominion that is everlasting and will not pass away. One immediately wonders what kind of person has a dominion that is everlasting. What kind of a person is given a kingdom and will have all men serve Him? The High Priest, who immediately recognized Jesus’ claim to divinity, tore his robe and declared Jesus guilty of blasphemy.
Jesus' use of the title "Son of Man" has surprisingly strong apologetic value. For a skeptic of Christ's deity cannot simply dismiss this particular self-designation of Jesus very easily. That Christ referred to Himself in this manner enjoys multiple attestations as it is found in all of the Gospel sources. The phrase "Son of Man" is used of Jesus only a few times outside of the Gospels themselves (Acts 7:56; Revelation 1:13, 14:14). Given its scarce usage by the early apostolic church, it is unlikely that this title would have been read back into the lips of Jesus if, in fact, He had not used this particular self-designation. And yet, if it is established that Jesus really did use this title of Himself, it becomes apparent that Jesus considered Himself to have everlasting power and a unique authority beyond that of a mere human being.
Sometimes, it was Jesus’ actions that betrayed His identity. Jesus’ healing of the paralytic in Mark 2 was done to demonstrate His authority and ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:3-12). In the minds of His Jewish audience, such abilities were reserved for God alone. Jesus also receives worship several times in the Gospels (Matthew 2:11, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; 20:28). Never did Jesus reject such adoration. Rather, He regarded their worship as well placed. Elsewhere, Jesus taught that the Son of Man will ultimately judge humanity (Matthew 25:31-46) and taught that our eternal destinies depended on our response to Him (Mark 8:34-38). Such behavior is further indication of Jesus' divine self-understanding.
In addition, Jesus believed that He had the authority both to alter and even overrule several parts of the Old Testament (Mark 7:15; Matthew 5:21-22; 19:8-9). Such statements would be ludicrous coming from anyone other than a divine Person with divine authority. Jesus also stated that His forthcoming resurrection from the dead would vindicate the very special claims that He made for Himself (Matthew 12:38-40). After having been crucified and buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, Jesus did, in fact, rise from the dead, establishing His claims to deity.
The evidence for this miraculous event is very powerful. Numerous contemporary sources report Jesus’ post-crucifixion appearances to both individuals and groups under various circumstances (1 Corinthians 15:3-7; Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:36-43; John 20:26-30, 21:1-14; Acts 1:3-6). Many of these witnesses were willing to die for this belief, and several of them did! Clement of Rome and the Roman historian Josephus provide us with first century reports of several of their martyrdoms. All of the theories used to explain away the evidence for the resurrection (such as the Hallucination Theory) have failed to explain all of the known data. The resurrection of Jesus is an established fact of history, and this turns out to be the strongest evidence for Jesus’ divinity.
Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “the Word was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church—the church of God—with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
That the New Testament is full of references to the divinity of Christ is difficult to deny. From the four canonical Gospels through the Book of Acts and the Pauline Epistles, Jesus is not only seen as the Messiah (or Christ), but also equated with God Himself. The Apostle Paul refers to the divinity of Christ when he calls Jesus our "great God and Savior" (Titus 2:13) and even says that Jesus existed in the "form of God" prior to His incarnation (Philippians 2:5-8). God the Father says regarding Jesus: "Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever" (Hebrews 1:8). Jesus is directly referred to as the Creator Himself (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17). Other biblical passages teach Christ's deity (Revelation 1:7, 2:8; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 5:4).
While these direct citations are sufficient to establish that the Bible claims Jesus is divine, a more indirect approach may prove to be more powerful. Jesus repeatedly placed Himself in the place of Yahweh by assuming the Father’s divine prerogatives. He was often doing and saying things that only God has a right to do and say. Jesus also referred to Himself in ways that hinted at His deity. Some of these instances provide us with the strongest proof of Jesus' divine self-understanding.
In Mark 14, Jesus stands accused at His trial before the High Priest. “Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven” (Mark 14:61-62). Here, Jesus is hearkening back to the Old Testament book of Daniel where the prophet Daniel states, “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed" (Daniel 7:13-14).
In this reference to Daniel's vision, Jesus is identifying Himself as the Son of Man, a person who was given “dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve Him.” The Son of Man has a dominion that is everlasting and will not pass away. One immediately wonders what kind of person has a dominion that is everlasting. What kind of a person is given a kingdom and will have all men serve Him? The High Priest, who immediately recognized Jesus’ claim to divinity, tore his robe and declared Jesus guilty of blasphemy.
Jesus' use of the title "Son of Man" has surprisingly strong apologetic value. For a skeptic of Christ's deity cannot simply dismiss this particular self-designation of Jesus very easily. That Christ referred to Himself in this manner enjoys multiple attestations as it is found in all of the Gospel sources. The phrase "Son of Man" is used of Jesus only a few times outside of the Gospels themselves (Acts 7:56; Revelation 1:13, 14:14). Given its scarce usage by the early apostolic church, it is unlikely that this title would have been read back into the lips of Jesus if, in fact, He had not used this particular self-designation. And yet, if it is established that Jesus really did use this title of Himself, it becomes apparent that Jesus considered Himself to have everlasting power and a unique authority beyond that of a mere human being.
Sometimes, it was Jesus’ actions that betrayed His identity. Jesus’ healing of the paralytic in Mark 2 was done to demonstrate His authority and ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:3-12). In the minds of His Jewish audience, such abilities were reserved for God alone. Jesus also receives worship several times in the Gospels (Matthew 2:11, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; 20:28). Never did Jesus reject such adoration. Rather, He regarded their worship as well placed. Elsewhere, Jesus taught that the Son of Man will ultimately judge humanity (Matthew 25:31-46) and taught that our eternal destinies depended on our response to Him (Mark 8:34-38). Such behavior is further indication of Jesus' divine self-understanding.
In addition, Jesus believed that He had the authority both to alter and even overrule several parts of the Old Testament (Mark 7:15; Matthew 5:21-22; 19:8-9). Such statements would be ludicrous coming from anyone other than a divine Person with divine authority. Jesus also stated that His forthcoming resurrection from the dead would vindicate the very special claims that He made for Himself (Matthew 12:38-40). After having been crucified and buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, Jesus did, in fact, rise from the dead, establishing His claims to deity.
The evidence for this miraculous event is very powerful. Numerous contemporary sources report Jesus’ post-crucifixion appearances to both individuals and groups under various circumstances (1 Corinthians 15:3-7; Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:36-43; John 20:26-30, 21:1-14; Acts 1:3-6). Many of these witnesses were willing to die for this belief, and several of them did! Clement of Rome and the Roman historian Josephus provide us with first century reports of several of their martyrdoms. All of the theories used to explain away the evidence for the resurrection (such as the Hallucination Theory) have failed to explain all of the known data. The resurrection of Jesus is an established fact of history, and this turns out to be the strongest evidence for Jesus’ divinity.
Fairlight said:
Muslims talk a lot about that topic, often in a way that seems to be contrary to what the New Testament and Old Testament seem to teach.
It might be helpful for some Muslims to discuss this with us. If it is discussed with learning minds.
Imagine there is a person named Bob?
Bob has a body.
Bob is an artist
Is Bob's body an artist? Is Bob's body Bob? Is Bob's body the body of an artist but Bob's body is not an artist?
If Bob's body is Bob will Bob exist anymore after Bob's body dies?
Could someone say that Bob's body is Bob in one sense (the sense that it is the body partially controlled by Bob the individual) but not Bob in another sense (in that after the Body of Bob dies, Bob the individual will continue existence on independent of the body that is buried and decaying and then eventually decayed? If he gets a new resurrection body immediately after death, there would still be the body in the grave by which his resurrection body he exists independent of (showing that Bob as an individual is independent of his grave-body) but if he waits until the body in the grave resurrects and does not get a resurrection body in the future he would exist as an individual independently of the grave body for some time)
What if Jesus is uncreated but Jesus body is created by Jesus? What if Jesus is God and Jesus' body is God's body but Jesus body is not God? Or Jesus body is divine in one sense (being the body controlled by divine Jesus personality) but not divine in another sense (being a body that is created and can die and resurrect) however Jesus who created his body completely possesses divine properties? Is that possible? Is that true or false or scripturally unspecified?
By the way a good answer to the Muslim question, "how can Jesus die if Jesus is God?" Is that Jesus body died, but that does not mean that Jesus goes out of existence and ceases to function as God anymore than a human dying ceases to go out of existence and experience no afterlife? It is not consistent for Muslims to say God could not operate if his body died, if they believe in a resurrection and judgment of people other than God in which they can operate after their body died. Or another way to put it is perhaps possibly his body died, but his spirit did not die (if people's bodies die but spirits do not die when they die) and if this is the case God's spirit could resurrect God's body and it would not be impossible for God's body to be resurrected if God's body died because there would not be no living God to resurrect God's body
Bob has a body.
Bob is an artist
Is Bob's body an artist? Is Bob's body Bob? Is Bob's body the body of an artist but Bob's body is not an artist?
If Bob's body is Bob will Bob exist anymore after Bob's body dies?
Could someone say that Bob's body is Bob in one sense (the sense that it is the body partially controlled by Bob the individual) but not Bob in another sense (in that after the Body of Bob dies, Bob the individual will continue existence on independent of the body that is buried and decaying and then eventually decayed? If he gets a new resurrection body immediately after death, there would still be the body in the grave by which his resurrection body he exists independent of (showing that Bob as an individual is independent of his grave-body) but if he waits until the body in the grave resurrects and does not get a resurrection body in the future he would exist as an individual independently of the grave body for some time)
What if Jesus is uncreated but Jesus body is created by Jesus? What if Jesus is God and Jesus' body is God's body but Jesus body is not God? Or Jesus body is divine in one sense (being the body controlled by divine Jesus personality) but not divine in another sense (being a body that is created and can die and resurrect) however Jesus who created his body completely possesses divine properties? Is that possible? Is that true or false or scripturally unspecified?
By the way a good answer to the Muslim question, "how can Jesus die if Jesus is God?" Is that Jesus body died, but that does not mean that Jesus goes out of existence and ceases to function as God anymore than a human dying ceases to go out of existence and experience no afterlife? It is not consistent for Muslims to say God could not operate if his body died, if they believe in a resurrection and judgment of people other than God in which they can operate after their body died. Or another way to put it is perhaps possibly his body died, but his spirit did not die (if people's bodies die but spirits do not die when they die) and if this is the case God's spirit could resurrect God's body and it would not be impossible for God's body to be resurrected if God's body died because there would not be no living God to resurrect God's body
Someone claimed as I understand their claim something similar to that God's spirit is present in Jesus body but they worship God's spirit in Jesus but not Jesus flesh and bones. Something like that Jesus spirit is God but Jesus body is not God if I understood them correctly? Is that heresy or proper theology and heresy to worship the flesh and bones?
JazzyTs said:
?
A
Anonymous
Guest
DTT,
Jesus did not "earn His deity". He is God from before time and is God (with the Father and Holy Spirit)for all eternity. That is a Mormon doctrine that is not up for consideration here. Also, Muslims have no authority to speak from, because they discount the Bible and make it subject to the Koran. Therefore they have nothing to bring to the table but questions and questions may stimulate the mind but do not edify. So let's leave the Muslim mindset out of our discussions. They have nothing to offer us, but we have a lot (God's Word) to give them.
Jesus did not "earn His deity". He is God from before time and is God (with the Father and Holy Spirit)for all eternity. That is a Mormon doctrine that is not up for consideration here. Also, Muslims have no authority to speak from, because they discount the Bible and make it subject to the Koran. Therefore they have nothing to bring to the table but questions and questions may stimulate the mind but do not edify. So let's leave the Muslim mindset out of our discussions. They have nothing to offer us, but we have a lot (God's Word) to give them.
A
Anonymous
Guest
DiscussingTheTopic said:
All I can say is that I feel like screaming right now! :?
blugrniz4u
Member
According to quantum physics, we live in a mysterious world. The subatomic world is a whirl of energy organized into particles and antiparticles that disappear if they collide. The building blocks of matter are not protons, neutrons, and electrons but the more elementary and exotic leptons, quarks, and gluons. Gluons bind quarks into hadrons and mediate the relationships of the hadrons and leptons....but I digress 
Also clear in the present state of quantum physics is the fact that light behaves like a wave unless it is acting like a particle, and you can know either the velocity or the location of an electron but not both. That doesn't mean that we don't know how to do both at the same time. It means that measuring the one changes the other.
Albert Einstein, who broke the theoretical ground for much of quantum physics, insisted to his death, "God does not play dice." He believed that God's infinite mind directs the immense but finite physical world of quantum mechanics. Physicists who insist the physical world is of necessity totally random ignore the more profound insight of their greatest theoretician.
Colossians 2:9,10 states "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."
Colossians is the most Christ-centered book in the Bible. In it Paul stresses the preeminence of the person of Christ and the completeness of the salvation Jesus provides, in order to combat a growing heresy that is threatening the church at Colosse. The two major topics of this book are supremacy of Jesus Christ and submission to Jesus Christ.
Suzanne the apologetically verbose blonde :lol: :lol:
Also clear in the present state of quantum physics is the fact that light behaves like a wave unless it is acting like a particle, and you can know either the velocity or the location of an electron but not both. That doesn't mean that we don't know how to do both at the same time. It means that measuring the one changes the other.
Albert Einstein, who broke the theoretical ground for much of quantum physics, insisted to his death, "God does not play dice." He believed that God's infinite mind directs the immense but finite physical world of quantum mechanics. Physicists who insist the physical world is of necessity totally random ignore the more profound insight of their greatest theoretician.
Colossians 2:9,10 states "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."
Colossians is the most Christ-centered book in the Bible. In it Paul stresses the preeminence of the person of Christ and the completeness of the salvation Jesus provides, in order to combat a growing heresy that is threatening the church at Colosse. The two major topics of this book are supremacy of Jesus Christ and submission to Jesus Christ.
Suzanne the apologetically verbose blonde :lol: :lol:
blugrniz4u
Member
thank you steve 
David777
New Member
I think Jesus is Yahweh himself, in the flesh. When Yahweh was on this earth (As Jesus), this didn't mean Yahweh was not everywhere else. Jesus was like the visible image of the invisible God. I believe that when God comes to judge the earth, it will be Jesus who we see.
I think Jesus IS the Father (Isaiah 9:6), who IS a Spirit (The Father of Spirits) (Hebrews 12:9). John the baptist prepared the way for YAHWEH (Isaiah 40:3). Jesus is the ARM of God (Isaiah 52, 53). I am not sure about God being three different persons (trinity), but I think it's more like it's ONE person, manifested in three ways (Son, Father, Holy Spirit). I am aware, though, of God saying "let US create man in OUR image". I am not sure either way, but I do think Jesus is Yahweh, in the flesh. And when I am compelled to do good, even if I desire to do evil, it is God's Spirit that saves me from myself.
They say "modalism" is heresy (The roman church said that), but I think the roman church has so much heresy so I don't think it's the most reliable authority that would make me fear being in heresy. I do think that God is one Spirit, who came in a human shell, as Jesus. Maybe when He said "Let us" he was talking to the angels.... who also are holy, as God. So maybe when He said "in our image", He meant without sin. Because woman and man were created different (physically), so God can not have the external image of both at the same time. I think when God said "in our image", that might have meant, spiritually in God's image. Meaning, holy and without sin, perfect. I don't know for sure, but those are some of my thoughts...
I think Jesus IS the Father (Isaiah 9:6), who IS a Spirit (The Father of Spirits) (Hebrews 12:9). John the baptist prepared the way for YAHWEH (Isaiah 40:3). Jesus is the ARM of God (Isaiah 52, 53). I am not sure about God being three different persons (trinity), but I think it's more like it's ONE person, manifested in three ways (Son, Father, Holy Spirit). I am aware, though, of God saying "let US create man in OUR image". I am not sure either way, but I do think Jesus is Yahweh, in the flesh. And when I am compelled to do good, even if I desire to do evil, it is God's Spirit that saves me from myself.
They say "modalism" is heresy (The roman church said that), but I think the roman church has so much heresy so I don't think it's the most reliable authority that would make me fear being in heresy. I do think that God is one Spirit, who came in a human shell, as Jesus. Maybe when He said "Let us" he was talking to the angels.... who also are holy, as God. So maybe when He said "in our image", He meant without sin. Because woman and man were created different (physically), so God can not have the external image of both at the same time. I think when God said "in our image", that might have meant, spiritually in God's image. Meaning, holy and without sin, perfect. I don't know for sure, but those are some of my thoughts...
A
Anonymous
Guest
David, that was awesome, not to take anything away from Doc B. I felt like screaming too like (blondie) When I
was reading some of the posts. Taking a really simple theology of Christianity and over theoliging (don't know if
that's a word, but you know what I mean).
This is one of the issues that God made simple,, I and my Father are one. Hmmmm not rocket science me thinks
humbly written dede
was reading some of the posts. Taking a really simple theology of Christianity and over theoliging (don't know if
that's a word, but you know what I mean).
This is one of the issues that God made simple,, I and my Father are one. Hmmmm not rocket science me thinks
humbly written dede