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Is the term Old Covenant ever mentioned in Scripture?

Verifyveritas76 said:
If the old covenant was only being renewed, there was no need for the death of Christ.
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Which covenant are you referring to as the “old covenant” in this context?
 
The entire book of Hebrews is about a better High Priest, it is not about doing away with the 'old' covenant elsewhere called 'perfect,' 'holy,' 'everlasting.'

Romans 7 tells us Yeshua had to die to release us from the previous covenant so that we can be recovenanted to Him. Paul draws directly from Deu. 24. To pursue the divorced house of Israel, He had to die. Reclaiming her doesn't mean He then offers an easier deal. He gave the Torah on Mt Sinai and the terms of covenanting remain the same...
 
ZecAustin said:
And yet God's Laws are not written on my heart. I still need to read them. I do look to the teachings of others. If the New Covenant is fully in force then it's stated results are not living up to the claims.
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The Law of Polygamy (let's say it's a law that is spelled out and not one that has to be searched out) was once read by you, and studied by you, and now you live by it. It has become a part of your heart. You don't have to go back and keep reading it. To me the writing of the Law of God on our hearts is a process, it takes a lifetime. The more we experience God the more we become like Him, the more things are written on our hearts.

I seriously doubt God could write his whole Law into our hearts all at once, we could not handle it.
 
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PeteR said:
The entire book of Hebrews is about a better High Priest, it is not about doing away with the 'old' covenant elsewhere called 'perfect,' 'holy,' 'everlasting.'

Romans 7 tells us Yeshua had to die to release us from the previous covenant so that we can be recovenanted to Him. Paul draws directly from Deu. 24. To pursue the divorced house of Israel, He had to die. Reclaiming her doesn't mean He then offers an easier deal. He gave the Torah on Mt Sinai and the terms of covenanting remain the same...
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To me the book of Hebrews is about faith that is offered through the current ruling High Priest, the Son of God. The old covenant was and is perfect from God's point of view, however, the new covenant is being offered because we can not honor the old covenant, never was able to and never will be able to. "Reclaiming her doesn't mean He then offers an easier deal.". There is no easier deal. Tell that to a mother and father who have to have unbelievable faith for the well being of a sick child. Exercising true faith is much much harder than trying to follow a written law. God says do sabbath, then do sabbath. God says wait for me by faith for rent, how easy is that?
 
Cap said:
To me the book of Hebrews is about faith that is offered through the current ruling High Priest, the Son of God. The old covenant was and is perfect from God's point of view, however, the new covenant is being offered because we can not honor the old covenant, never was able to and never will be able to. "Reclaiming her doesn't mean He then offers an easier deal.". There is no easier deal. Tell that to a mother and father who have to have unbelievable faith for the well being of a sick child. Exercising true faith is much much harder than trying to follow a written law. God says do sabbath, then do sabbath. God says wait for me by faith for rent, how easy is that?
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Deuteronomy 30, cited by Paul in Romans clearly says, 'it is not too difficult for you.' Yet, they rebelled. Problem is with hearts and trusting that something as simple as Sabbath means something.

Now, as to faith... faith has always been the means of salvation. Ask Noach, Avraham, Itzhaak, Yaacov.... ask the children in the wilderness that went without water for 3 days (Ex. 16, I think). Ask the ones marching around Jericho.... faith + obedience.

If for no other reason, God promises blessings and freedom for those who walk in obedience to Torah... that's a pretty good reason all by itself.
 
Cap said:
The Law of Polygamy (let's say it's a law that is spelled out and not one that has to be searched out) was once read by you, and studied by you, and now you live by it. It has become a part of your heart. You don't have to go back and keep reading it. To me the writing of the Law of God on our hearts is a process, it takes a lifetime. The more we experience God the more we become like Him, the more things are written on our hearts.

I seriously doubt God could write his whole Law into our hearts all at once, we could not handle it.
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So you're saying it's not fulfilled yet?
 
PeteR said:
The entire book of Hebrews is about a better High Priest, it is not about doing away with the 'old' covenant elsewhere called 'perfect,' 'holy,' 'everlasting.'

Romans 7 tells us Yeshua had to die to release us from the previous covenant so that we can be recovenanted to Him. Paul draws directly from Deu. 24. To pursue the divorced house of Israel, He had to die. Reclaiming her doesn't mean He then offers an easier deal. He gave the Torah on Mt Sinai and the terms of covenanting remain the same...
Click to expand...

I think you’ve got Romans 7:4 backwards. “Ye are become dead to the law by the body of Christ”. He’s not the only one who died. 6. That being dead wherein we were held . . . 9. When the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 11. . . .and by it(the commandment), (sin) slew me.

As to having to die to pursue the divorced house of Israel, Ezekiel 16:55-61 shows that not to be necessary.

“ The terms of the covenanting remain the same”. Based upon what?

As to the entire book of Hebrews being about a better High Priest, what does that mean to you?
 
PeteR said:
Deuteronomy 30, cited by Paul in Romans clearly says, 'it is not too difficult for you.' Yet, they rebelled. Problem is with hearts and trusting that something as simple as Sabbath means something.

Now, as to faith... faith has always been the means of salvation. Ask Noach, Avraham, Itzhaak, Yaacov.... ask the children in the wilderness that went without water for 3 days (Ex. 16, I think). Ask the ones marching around Jericho.... faith + obedience.

If for no other reason, God promises blessings and freedom for those who walk in obedience to Torah... that's a pretty good reason all by itself.
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I think Paul is saying that the relationship were are to have with God is not as difficult as we try and make it. And Sabbath means everything, it's trying to figure out what God wants you to do with it that matters.

So let me ask you, (and by the way I am not at all trying to be smart in all this, I'm enjoying this discussion and gaining a lot of understanding from it, from everyone participate), if God is promising blessing and freedom for those who walk in obedience to 'Torah', are you receiving blessings or curses in your efforts? I would assume to receive blessing one would have to be in complete obedience. If one is disobedient in one thing then does one recieve partial blessing?
 
Cap said:
I think Paul is saying that the relationship were are to have with God is not as difficult as we try and make it. And Sabbath means everything, it's trying to figure out what God wants you to do with it that matters.

So let me ask you, (and by the way I am not at all trying to be smart in all this, I'm enjoying this discussion and gaining a lot of understanding from it, from everyone participate), if God is promising blessing and freedom for those who walk in obedience to 'Torah', are you receiving blessings or curses in your efforts? I would assume to receive blessing one would have to be in complete obedience. If one is disobedient in one thing then does one recieve partial blessing?
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Was Abraham perfect? Was he blessed? Was he 'saved?'

God is the same yesterday, today, forever. He isn't some vindictive being waiting to crush us over the smallest error. The whole sacrificial system was set up because He knew we would fail or falter from time to time. That system pointed to Yeshua, who offers forgiveness. What pisses God off is willful rebellion or disobedience. (In fact, read the Torah carefully and note there is no sacrihice for intentional sin. Unintentional sin was expected and allowed for in the system.)

Blessings can be partial, though curses in one area can affect another.

Consider this: Who gave Moses the Torah?
 
PeteR said:
Was Abraham perfect? Was he blessed? Was he 'saved?'

God is the same yesterday, today, forever. He isn't some vindictive being waiting to crush us over the smallest error. The whole sacrificial system was set up because He knew we would fail or falter from time to time. That system pointed to Yeshua, who offers forgiveness. What pisses God off is willful rebellion or disobedience. (In fact, read the Torah carefully and note there is no sacrihice for intentional sin. Unintentional sin was expected and allowed for in the system.)

Blessings can be partial, though curses in one area can affect another.

Consider this: Who gave Moses the Torah?
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Deuteronomy 11:26-28
[26] "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: [27] the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, which I am commanding you today; [28] and the curse, if you do not listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I am commanding you today, by following other gods which you have not known.
 
Pacman said:
Deuteronomy 11:26-28
[26] "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: [27] the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, which I am commanding you today; [28] and the curse, if you do not listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I am commanding you today, by following other gods which you have not known.
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Wonder why it doesn't say obey?
 
ZecAustin said:
No, but the marriage you're referring to wasn't ended. It was just morphed a little and a bunch more people were brought in.
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It did end and that one he did say, "it is finished". The new marriage we are in its not over it is progressing.
 
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