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Isaiah 4:1... Some historical understanding

PeteR

PeteR

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I've been really enjoying an academic paper @Frank S posted that is titled How Much Jewish Polygyny In Roman Palestine? (2001). It is a goldmine of information regarding Second Temple era (read: at the time of Jesus/Yeshua) polygyny among the Jews giving much weight to the fact that Yeshua never addressed plural marriage.... but, I digress.

An interesting quote from the article made me think about Isaiah 4:1... Check this out:

The story is told in the Yerushalmi's sugya in the context of the ruling of mYev 4:12: "Four brothers married to four women and they died, if the oldest [surviving] brother among them wants to enter into levirate marriage with all of them [the women] he has the right to do so" (r04 y~n, ,x7R3 t,inx ,nni ri' mn '1i,i t*i nxK t,,5 7n; ;1r1i n ui tr irn). The story itself speaks of a man who refused to enter the levirate marriage because of his difficult economic situation (';"rn: n"). How- ever, since the women agreed to support him (instead of him supporting them, as is usually expected) he had no choice but to enter the levirate marriage with them, and he was blessed with thirty-six children. There is no doubt that the story's intention is to encourage levirate marriage, despite the financial difficulties it imposes.48 This being the case, one must conclude that the story does not view polygyny as problematic.
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Fascinating support for understanding a similar scenario in Isaiah 4:1 wherein the women volunteer to bake their own bread if only he (the man) will cover them and remove their shame.

More at the article.
 
What is interesting there is they viewed the headship/childbearing/giving brother an heir elements of marriage as more important than, or superseding, the financial aspect.
 
rockfox said:
What is interesting there is they viewed the headship/childbearing/giving brother an heir elements of marriage as more important than, or superseding, the financial aspect.
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In Judaism any command that can be fulfilled is positive and (in very general terms) helps redeem the world and build merit... From that perspective, one of the highest orders is being fruitful and insuring a brother's name is not 'blotted out.' So, yes, bearing children outweighs the financial 'burden.' Quite the opposite of selfish western culture's 'children are an imposition on my time and money.'
 
PeteR said:
In Judaism any command that can be fulfilled is positive and (in very general terms) helps redeem the world and build merit... From that perspective, one of the highest orders is being fruitful and insuring a brother's name is not 'blotted out.' So, yes, bearing children outweighs the financial 'burden.' Quite the opposite of selfish western culture's 'children are an imposition on my time and money.'
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It is also quite the opposite of the churches point of view that any man who doesn't provide his wife an upper middle class life of luxury is a no good rotten sinner who should be divorced.
 
PeteR said:
In Judaism any command that can be fulfilled is positive and (in very general terms) helps redeem the world and build merit... From that perspective, one of the highest orders is being fruitful and insuring a brother's name is not 'blotted out.' So, yes, bearing children outweighs the financial 'burden.' Quite the opposite of selfish western culture's 'children are an imposition on my time and money.'
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Yes...it has taken YEARS for me to shake the western (and my family's) mindset on this issue. I don't live in regret but I would have made different choices in this area if I hadn't have been brainwashed into thinking that large families were a result of irresponsibility.
 
Robhar said:
Yes...it has taken YEARS for me to shake the western (and my family's) mindset on this issue. I don't live in regret but I would have made different choices in this area if I hadn't have been brainwashed into thinking that large families were a result of irresponsibility.
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Bless you!

In hindsight we might have gone for more than four, but @Judgemenot 's proverbial hands were full... especially once we started homeschooling. I am conflicted a bit now, but hindsight is 20/20...

Maybe in the Messianic Age the opportunity again presents, like Abraham and Sarah, to bear in our old age....
 
PeteR said:
Maybe in the Messianic Age the opportunity again presents, like Abraham and Sarah, to bear in our old age....
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Totally planning on it. Renewed bodies and all of that.
 
PeteR said:
Bless you!

In hindsight we might have gone for more than four, but @Judgemenot 's proverbial hands were full... especially once we started homeschooling. I am conflicted a bit now, but hindsight is 20/20...

Maybe in the Messianic Age the opportunity again presents, like Abraham and Sarah, to bear in our old age....
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Oh wow....funny you should say that. I have a friend that is convinced it will be that way in the kingdom. We shall see! Lol
 
Robhar said:
Oh wow....funny you should say that. I have a friend that is convinced it will be that way in the kingdom. We shall see! Lol
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Isaiah ... maybe around 60? It's in there....
 
Robhar said:
Oh wow....funny you should say that. I have a friend that is convinced it will be that way in the kingdom. We shall see! Lol
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Just a thought....the prophets say the end is in the beginning....if we know the beginning we can know the end....it seems to me that in the beginning, before the fall everything was perfect. After the fall the woman was going to have issues with blood and there would pain in child birth and so on.... which to me implys before the fall there would be no pain or blood issues for the woman in childbirth
.... The same for man, he would work by the sweat of his brow and so forth....so I long to go back to the beginning and function properly and husband the garden and the woman I think it says Jeshua is the second Adam who came to restore what the first adam losts..any thoughts??
 
@Shaul I think you are right, but we may not see that degree of restoration until after the Millennial reign. Surely, the millennial kingdom will be a huge step forward if we are in Messiah, but not all will be restored to the Garden... I.e., we know that we'll still have death.... etc.
 
PeteR said:
@Shaul I think you are right, but we may not see that degree of restoration until after the Millennial reign. Surely, the millennial kingdom will be a huge step forward if we are in Messiah, but not all will be restored to the Garden... I.e., we know that we'll still have death.... etc.
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The way that I understand it is that the faithful that make it to the start of the Millennium will receive renewed bodies and won’t be doing that dying thing.
Hey, it’s a plan. We will see how it works.
 
steve said:
The way that I understand it is that the faithful that make it to the start of the Millennium will receive renewed bodies and won’t be doing that dying thing.
Hey, it’s a plan. We will see how it works.
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I hope so. There are some that get that 'promotion' but I'm not sure how that rolls out.. My goal is to be faithful...
 
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